Single Tier Championship Restructure

[Jayop]

100% open draw. Dublin could get Kerry or Leitrim in the first round.

Seedings are bollocks. If you leave it open then loads of teams could go on a run through to the semi final if they get a good draw.

I just knew Zulu would be against that type of format as doesn't want to see any underdog in All Ireland semi final.

What a crock!! What's the purpose of allowing teams get to the latter stages of a competition by luck? We all want to see new teams grow and develop into genuine contenders but perhaps you could explain to me the value of a format where the vast majority of games don't matter and teams who can't compete with the best get to the latter stages?

Senior inter county is the elite of our game, I don't see the merit of formats that are more like something you'd use for an U11 tournament. Not saying that's what your format is Jayop, just saying running elite level adult football like an elite competition isn't the a bad way of doing it.

Would you call the FA cup an elite level adult competition?

It's an open draw. The two top teams can draw each other in R3 where they enter it. Millwall can get to the final if they get a nice draw and play well.

You're not "allowing teams get to the latter stages of a competition by luck?". It's an open draw. If they get to the later stages then they will deserve it. Who are we really talking about getting to the later stages anyway? In that draw I made Meath and Westmeath made it to the 1/4 final because they won two games in an open draw format. That's as it should be. By that stage the chances of them getting drawn against each other are 8/1 and even then they would have had to play the winners of the other 3 games in the semi final. If they somehow managed to beat one of those and got to the final then they absolutely deserve to be there.

[Jayop]

100% open draw. Dublin could get Kerry or Leitrim in the first round.

Seedings are bollocks. If you leave it open then loads of teams could go on a run through to the semi final if they get a good draw.

I just knew Zulu would be against that type of format as doesn't want to see any underdog in All Ireland semi final.

It's quite incomprehensible that a weak county would get all the way to a final. If they do they will deserve it.

Maybe not all  the way to the final but certainly QF and SF are possible and if they did it by beating only division 3 and 4 teams, how is that deserving?

Kerry got there this year (and every year) by beating Clare and Cork (or similar teams).
Dublin got there this year by beating Louth, Kildare and Meath.

What's less fair about someone else getting to a 1/4 final by beating weak sides?

[Zulu]

I think a lot of your proposal has merit but I'd disagree on seedings. For one thing, if the league and provincial championships aren't linked to your championship then they'll serve little purpose for many counties. This will mean that the vast majority of inter county games are little more than challenge games.

Secondly, we could end up with two semi final hammerings or worse again an All Ireland final hammering. Of course that can, and has, happened but we shouldn't IMO have a competition format for the All Ireland that has little to do with merit. Of the 32 counties competing for the All Ireland we have probably 26 or more that wouldn't be within 8 points of the top teams. We've seen it before, teams who won their province but end up getting hammered in the all Ireland series and the team and county ending the season on a massive downer. It might be great for a Sligo or Clare getting to an All Ireland QF or SF by luck of the draw but if they get beaten by 15 points then I don't think players or fans would take many positives out of it.

Sure what has the league got to do with the championship now? It's a stand alone competition.

For me in this system your All ireland is top prize obviously, then the provincial then the league. Not sure how the provincial wouldn't still be seen as important. There's simply no way to feed the provincial system back into the All Ireland in a way that's fair.  They have to be split up.

Also, if there's seedings then the likes of Dublin will be playing a Sligo or a Leitrim in round 1. Are they better off getting a 20 point hammering in R1 or after having win a few games and getting their gander up?

I think the senior inter county season should mostly have games that matter. The league in your format would be become pretty pointless outside of developing your team, which is fine, but doesn't make for games that are of real value. Personally, I see little merit in the provincials but running them in parallel with the league doesn't seem to help prioritise them.

The advantage of seeding is that it gives developing teams a pathway to avoiding Dublin in Rd 1 by climbing the divisions. If you can't get out of division 4 when trying your best to do so then there's a lot of teams who'll hammer you.

[Zulu]

100% open draw. Dublin could get Kerry or Leitrim in the first round.

Seedings are bollocks. If you leave it open then loads of teams could go on a run through to the semi final if they get a good draw.

I just knew Zulu would be against that type of format as doesn't want to see any underdog in All Ireland semi final.

What a crock!! What's the purpose of allowing teams get to the latter stages of a competition by luck? We all want to see new teams grow and develop into genuine contenders but perhaps you could explain to me the value of a format where the vast majority of games don't matter and teams who can't compete with the best get to the latter stages?

Senior inter county is the elite of our game, I don't see the merit of formats that are more like something you'd use for an U11 tournament. Not saying that's what your format is Jayop, just saying running elite level adult football like an elite competition isn't the a bad way of doing it.

Would you call the FA cup an elite level adult competition?

It's an open draw. The two top teams can draw each other in R3 where they enter it. Millwall can get to the final if they get a nice draw and play well.

You're not "allowing teams get to the latter stages of a competition by luck?". It's an open draw. If they get to the later stages then they will deserve it. Who are we really talking about getting to the later stages anyway? In that draw I made Meath and Westmeath made it to the 1/4 final because they won two games in an open draw format. That's as it should be. By that stage the chances of them getting drawn against each other are 8/1 and even then they would have had to play the winners of the other 3 games in the semi final. If they somehow managed to beat one of those and got to the final then they absolutely deserve to be there.

Where does the FA cup rank in British soccer for most teams, 2nd or 3rd (for the premiership teams and probably more). The All Ireland is our champions league and you have to qualify for that.

[Captain Obvious]

100% open draw. Dublin could get Kerry or Leitrim in the first round.

Seedings are bollocks. If you leave it open then loads of teams could go on a run through to the semi final if they get a good draw.

I just knew Zulu would be against that type of format as doesn't want to see any underdog in All Ireland semi final.

It's quite incomprehensible that a weak county would get all the way to a final. If they do they will deserve it.

Through gritted teeth he had to congratulate Div 3 Tipperary for reaching the semi final three years ago. He was over the moon with the introduction of the round robin group stage for the last eight as it more or less ended the chance of a underdog like Tipperary reaching the last 4 again.

[Zulu]

100% open draw. Dublin could get Kerry or Leitrim in the first round.

Seedings are bollocks. If you leave it open then loads of teams could go on a run through to the semi final if they get a good draw.

I just knew Zulu would be against that type of format as doesn't want to see any underdog in All Ireland semi final.

It's quite incomprehensible that a weak county would get all the way to a final. If they do they will deserve it.

Maybe not all  the way to the final but certainly QF and SF are possible and if they did it by beating only division 3 and 4 teams, how is that deserving?

Kerry got there this year (and every year) by beating Clare and Cork (or similar teams).
Dublin got there this year by beating Louth, Kildare and Meath.

What's less fair about someone else getting to a 1/4 final by beating weak sides?

That's 100% true and that's one of the main reasons I don't think the provincials should be linked to progressing in the championship.

[Zulu]

100% open draw. Dublin could get Kerry or Leitrim in the first round.

Seedings are bollocks. If you leave it open then loads of teams could go on a run through to the semi final if they get a good draw.

I just knew Zulu would be against that type of format as doesn't want to see any underdog in All Ireland semi final.

It's quite incomprehensible that a weak county would get all the way to a final. If they do they will deserve it.

Through gritted teeth he had to congratulate Div 3 Tipperary for reaching the semi final three years ago. He was over the moon with the introduction of the round robin group stage for the last eight as it more or less ended the chance of a underdog like Tipperary reaching the last 4 again.

I presume hardstation was referring to you when he said some people were on glue. I had to congratulate Tipp through gritted teeth 3 years ago, what the hell are you talking about??? I couldn't quote anyone's posts from 3 years ago so that you seemly can remember one of mine is fairly worrying. But feel free to post it here again so I we can all see how you deemed a post as being through gritted teeth.

Your second point is simply a lie. I wasn't over the moon and certainly wasn't in favour of it as it would make it harder for a county like Tipp to make the SF's. I was in favour of giving the super 8's their 3 year run as I didn't think the championship format was working and the only other option was the super 8's so I was willing to give them a go.

They aren't the final solution and there are changes needed but I think they are better than the old format.

[Jayop]

There's no answer to suit everyone. Round robins with anything more than the top 6 teams will produce crap games. Seeding will guarantee crap games until the semi-finals. Splitting the competion in 2 levels will still have your 5/6 top teams hammering the other 10/11 teams every time they meet. It will also kill football in the 2nd tier counties.

Hurling is all but dead in 20+ counties and they will never ever bridge the gap or get a team that's competative against the top 8 sides. Never.

Football is in a much more healthy state. Take the Dubs out and the next 4 teams could all be beaten by a team a few levels below them on their day.

We need to protect that, and shoving the bottom 16/24 counties into a tier 2 will turn football into the new hurling. Brilliant games at the top level but death by a thousand cuts at the rest.

[Zulu]

There's no answer to suit everyone. Round robins with anything more than the top 6 teams will produce crap games. Seeding will guarantee crap games until the semi-finals. Splitting the competion in 2 levels will still have your 5/6 top teams hammering the other 10/11 teams every time they meet. It will also kill football in the 2nd tier counties.

Hurling is all but dead in 20+ counties and they will never ever bridge the gap or get a team that's competative against the top 8 sides. Never.

Football is in a much more healthy state. Take the Dubs out and the next 4 teams could all be beaten by a team a few levels below them on their day.

We need to protect that, and shoving the bottom 16/24 counties into a tier 2 will turn football into the new hurling. Brilliant games at the top level but death by a thousand cuts at the rest.

I agree. There isn't any format that will serve everyone optimally. But for me, counties have their club championships, Sigerson championships and inter county competitions from U14 upwards to develop players for their county senior team. The GAA can, and should be, trying to help counties develop with funding support but I don't see senior IC football as being anything other than elite teams competing. If you aren't good enough to make it through to a SF or QF then so be it. As long as the competition provides lots of games that matter and every team has the same path to the final then it's a fair decent competition format IMO.

[Rossfan]

In Soccer the Cups are only a bit of diversion from the real thing which is their Leagues.
That FA Cup only let's 20 out of 600 or 700 Clubs join the elite in their 3rd round.
Now for an off the wall suggestion specially for Hardstation and sort of borrowed from the Hurley stuff.
Shorten the NFL which is only a pre season warmer upper with Final(s) on St Patrick's Day.
Provincials played in April
Connacht Ulster Conference 3 groups of 5, 2 Connacht and 3 Ulster in each group.
Leinster/Munster* 3 groups of 6, 2 Munster and 4 Leinster in each group.
Games spread over May, June, July and 1st weekend of August with designated weekends for Club Championships.
Top 2 in each Group go forward to AI Championship(12 teams).
If you want tiers 3rds and 4ths go to a Tier 2 (12)
And the rest to a Tier 3 (8 or 9 teams*).

*if Kilkenny remains in Britain then 5 in one Leinster group.

Jay - hurling was never anything but dead ie near it in 20 or so Counties. That's why the different Championships were brought in.

[Hawkeye9212]

Hurling has always been a minority sport largely confined to Leinster and Munster. The sport needs a tiered championship. We might as well just keep the Provincials in football and sort out the funding issues.

[Captain Obvious]

He wasn't referring to me as i had only one post on this thread at the time. From what i hear a sign of glue sniffing is a damaged memory.

The Champions league final this year was between Liverpool and Tottenham who last won their domestic league titles in 1990 and 1961. Arguably the highlight of that competition was Ajax run against the odds to the semi final and missing out on the final by inches, it captured the public's interest as all underdog stories do.

In the main competition in our amateur game there is a big focus on elitism and the rest are just left to feed on scraps as the day of the underdog (one of the best things about any team competition) is killed off.

[Jayop]

In Soccer the Cups are only a bit of diversion from the real thing which is their Leagues.
That FA Cup only let's 20 out of 600 or 700 Clubs join the elite in their 3rd round.
Now for an off the wall suggestion specially for Hardstation and sort of borrowed from the Hurley stuff.
Shorten the NFL which is only a pre season warmer upper with Final(s) on St Patrick's Day.
Provincials played in April
Connacht Ulster Conference 3 groups of 5, 2 Connacht and 3 Ulster in each group.
Leinster/Munster* 3 groups of 6, 2 Munster and 4 Leinster in each group.
Games spread over May, June, July and 1st weekend of August with designated weekends for Club Championships.
Top 2 in each Group go forward to AI Championship(12 teams).
If you want tiers 3rds and 4ths go to a Tier 2 (12)
And the rest to a Tier 3 (8 or 9 teams*).

*if Kilkenny remains in Britain then 5 in one Leinster group.

Jay - hurling was never anything but dead ie near it in 20 or so Counties. That's why the different Championships were brought in.

If you dump 16 teams into a 2nd division then we're going to kill it there too. For what? So Sky Sports and have more super sundays?? f**k that.

[Zulu]

He wasn't referring to me as i had only one post on this thread at the time. From what i hear a sign of glue sniffing is a damaged memory.

The Champions league final this year was between Liverpool and Tottenham who last won their domestic league titles in 1990 and 1961. Arguably the highlight of that competition was Ajax run against the odds to the semi final and missing out on the final by inches, it captured the public's interest as all underdog stories do.

In the main competition in our amateur game there is a big focus on elitism and the rest are just left to feed on scraps as the day of the underdog (one of the best things about any team competition) is killed off.

You're surely not suggesting Liverpool and Spurs aren't elite teams? I've no interest in soccer but I doubt anyone wouldn't have both clubs in the top 30 in Europe (at least). So out of the 1000+ professional soccer teams in Europe they're both in the top 3% (probably in the top 2%). Ajax would be there or there about too I'd imagine.


Underdog stories are brilliant but Clare getting to an all Ireland semi final because they beat Waterford, Carlow and Westmeath isn't really an underdog story. It's a decent teams progressing aby beating teams they would probably beat most days. It would be brilliant if Clare made a SF by beating Waterford, Meath and Tyrone for example but that could happen in a seeded format too.

[Armagh18]

I think a lot of your proposal has merit but I'd disagree on seedings. For one thing, if the league and provincial championships aren't linked to your championship then they'll serve little purpose for many counties. This will mean that the vast majority of inter county games are little more than challenge games.

Secondly, we could end up with two semi final hammerings or worse again an All Ireland final hammering. Of course that can, and has, happened but we shouldn't IMO have a competition format for the All Ireland that has little to do with merit. Of the 32 counties competing for the All Ireland we have probably 26 or more that wouldn't be within 8 points of the top teams. We've seen it before, teams who won their province but end up getting hammered in the all Ireland series and the team and county ending the season on a massive downer. It might be great for a Sligo or Clare getting to an All Ireland QF or SF by luck of the draw but if they get beaten by 15 points then I don't think players or fans would take many positives out of it.

Jaysus I'd say a Sligo or Clare man would sell their souls for and AI semi.