Appeals

[Armagh Girl]

Whilst the rule book states "Any video footage as long as it's 'reliable and unedited'. Back and white can be used", this still has to be provided by a proper media outlet, to be credible to stand up to Appeals etc.   Unlike the Social Media evidence that appears to have been used by RTE Sunday Game etc, which not only does it not show the beginning of the Melee but appears to show only parts of what actually happened.  How RTE were even permitted to show this given it was not actual footage from a proper camera at the match also begs questions for the Legal Teams.  Both Teams were entitled to appeal and it is actually laughable the uproar at present from Donegal and other counties......having been at the match and viewed exactly what started it.....Murphy attacking Grogan with a Lines Man right beside them ....  Donegal only took their punishment as they were afraid of video evidence of this being provided.  More worrying for the GAA was the fact that Donegal Stewards pushing and shoving Armagh players to the ground during the Melee, were clearly seen on this Unofficial Video evidence and yet nothing has been said or done about that, which was much worse that the players actions! 

[LCohen]

I think this entire thread shows how much a shambles the system is. No one appealed in this case just for the sake of it. No one was cleared on mere technicalities or because I 's weren't dotted or t's weren't crossed. Nor did the language of the referees report result in appeals being successful. Proper procedures were not followed and there was real prejudice caused by those failings. No one should be expected to accept a ban that has not been fairly applied. In that regard justice has been done.

There is though a real opportunity for the Association to look at the farce that this case has demonstrated and to learn from it. Unfortunately I doubt the association will.

I agree with you that the whole thing is a farce and it has been a farce long before this incident. We in Armagh have not made it a farce. Though I am not yet sure that we haven't exploited a farcical set up.

Over the course of these debates you have proved yourself more knowledgeable about the appeals processes than I am. I bow to that. But you are stating categorically that these players have not got off on technicalities. Now given that a guilty player who gets off based upon a procedural error is the very definition of "getting off on a technicality" can you provide a little clarity on these cases and why you can make such a categoric statement?

I genuinely would like someone to spell out the case against the players and why it was overturned. I presume anyone making categoric statements must be in possession of those facts.

[LCohen]

Whilst the rule book states "Any video footage as long as it's 'reliable and unedited'. Back and white can be used", this still has to be provided by a proper media outlet, to be credible to stand up to Appeals etc.   Unlike the Social Media evidence that appears to have been used by RTE Sunday Game etc, which not only does it not show the beginning of the Melee but appears to show only parts of what actually happened.  How RTE were even permitted to show this given it was not actual footage from a proper camera at the match also begs questions for the Legal Teams.  Both Teams were entitled to appeal and it is actually laughable the uproar at present from Donegal and other counties......having been at the match and viewed exactly what started it.....Murphy attacking Grogan with a Lines Man right beside them ....  Donegal only took their punishment as they were afraid of video evidence of this being provided.  More worrying for the GAA was the fact that Donegal Stewards pushing and shoving Armagh players to the ground during the Melee, were clearly seen on this Unofficial Video evidence and yet nothing has been said or done about that, which was much worse that the players actions!

By Sunday Game I presume you mean league Sunday. In which case absolutely no social media footage was used. Just the camera used in the TG4 footage. Let's stick to the facts here

[Franko]

Whilst the rule book states "Any video footage as long as it's 'reliable and unedited'. Back and white can be used", this still has to be provided by a proper media outlet, to be credible to stand up to Appeals etc.   Unlike the Social Media evidence that appears to have been used by RTE Sunday Game etc, which not only does it not show the beginning of the Melee but appears to show only parts of what actually happened.  How RTE were even permitted to show this given it was not actual footage from a proper camera at the match also begs questions for the Legal Teams.  Both Teams were entitled to appeal and it is actually laughable the uproar at present from Donegal and other counties......having been at the match and viewed exactly what started it.....Murphy attacking Grogan with a Lines Man right beside them ....  Donegal only took their punishment as they were afraid of video evidence of this being provided.  More worrying for the GAA was the fact that Donegal Stewards pushing and shoving Armagh players to the ground during the Melee, were clearly seen on this Unofficial Video evidence and yet nothing has been said or done about that, which was much worse that the players actions!

Exactly what questions does it beg?

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

I'd say when it came down to it, the only way the sanctions against Armagh could stick would have been for equal to be applied to the equally (if not more so) culpable Donegal (retrospectively), which is a place they (the GAA) weren't going to go. Therefore, better to wipe the slates clean, and thereby avoid even more scrutiny of their thoroughly broken system.

Having said that, Armagh do need to avoid being drawn into/instigating these physical exchanges -- they'll come a cropper yet otherwise.

[Wildweasel74]

Not matter a damn anyway, Donegal will beat them.

[JoG2]

Whilst the rule book states "Any video footage as long as it's 'reliable and unedited'. Back and white can be used", this still has to be provided by a proper media outlet, to be credible to stand up to Appeals etc.   Unlike the Social Media evidence that appears to have been used by RTE Sunday Game etc, which not only does it not show the beginning of the Melee but appears to show only parts of what actually happened.  How RTE were even permitted to show this given it was not actual footage from a proper camera at the match also begs questions for the Legal Teams.  Both Teams were entitled to appeal and it is actually laughable the uproar at present from Donegal and other counties......having been at the match and viewed exactly what started it.....Murphy attacking Grogan with a Lines Man right beside them ....  Donegal only took their punishment as they were afraid of video evidence of this being provided.  More worrying for the GAA was the fact that Donegal Stewards pushing and shoving Armagh players to the ground during the Melee, were clearly seen on this Unofficial Video evidence and yet nothing has been said or done about that, which was much worse that the players actions!

No harm, but this is more nonsense.

[tonto1888]

Whilst the rule book states "Any video footage as long as it's 'reliable and unedited'. Back and white can be used", this still has to be provided by a proper media outlet, to be credible to stand up to Appeals etc.   Unlike the Social Media evidence that appears to have been used by RTE Sunday Game etc, which not only does it not show the beginning of the Melee but appears to show only parts of what actually happened.  How RTE were even permitted to show this given it was not actual footage from a proper camera at the match also begs questions for the Legal Teams.  Both Teams were entitled to appeal and it is actually laughable the uproar at present from Donegal and other counties......having been at the match and viewed exactly what started it.....Murphy attacking Grogan with a Lines Man right beside them ....  Donegal only took their punishment as they were afraid of video evidence of this being provided.  More worrying for the GAA was the fact that Donegal Stewards pushing and shoving Armagh players to the ground during the Melee, were clearly seen on this Unofficial Video evidence and yet nothing has been said or done about that, which was much worse that the players actions!

No harm, but this is more nonsense.

What makes it nonsense?

[thewobbler]

.... Because players have been getting off (and not) in club matches for years on the back of personal video coverage.

What the unedited means is that you can't bring in 5 seconds of footage that pinpoint the incident or lack thereof. You've got to be able to show that the incident (or lack of) isn't isolated. There's no hearings committee would reject footage that shows a new angle, as long as that angle has context.

[JoG2]

Whilst the rule book states "Any video footage as long as it's 'reliable and unedited'. Back and white can be used", this still has to be provided by a proper media outlet, to be credible to stand up to Appeals etc.   Unlike the Social Media evidence that appears to have been used by RTE Sunday Game etc, which not only does it not show the beginning of the Melee but appears to show only parts of what actually happened.  How RTE were even permitted to show this given it was not actual footage from a proper camera at the match also begs questions for the Legal Teams.  Both Teams were entitled to appeal and it is actually laughable the uproar at present from Donegal and other counties......having been at the match and viewed exactly what started it.....Murphy attacking Grogan with a Lines Man right beside them ....  Donegal only took their punishment as they were afraid of video evidence of this being provided.  More worrying for the GAA was the fact that Donegal Stewards pushing and shoving Armagh players to the ground during the Melee, were clearly seen on this Unofficial Video evidence and yet nothing has been said or done about that, which was much worse that the players actions!

No harm, but this is more nonsense.

What makes it nonsense?

The rulebook and what is stated within re video evidence makes it nonsense. Show me in the rule book (or the poster who claimed it to be so) that the bit in bold is true and I'll happily retract

[tonto1888]

Whilst the rule book states "Any video footage as long as it's 'reliable and unedited'. Back and white can be used", this still has to be provided by a proper media outlet, to be credible to stand up to Appeals etc.   Unlike the Social Media evidence that appears to have been used by RTE Sunday Game etc, which not only does it not show the beginning of the Melee but appears to show only parts of what actually happened.  How RTE were even permitted to show this given it was not actual footage from a proper camera at the match also begs questions for the Legal Teams.  Both Teams were entitled to appeal and it is actually laughable the uproar at present from Donegal and other counties......having been at the match and viewed exactly what started it.....Murphy attacking Grogan with a Lines Man right beside them ....  Donegal only took their punishment as they were afraid of video evidence of this being provided.  More worrying for the GAA was the fact that Donegal Stewards pushing and shoving Armagh players to the ground during the Melee, were clearly seen on this Unofficial Video evidence and yet nothing has been said or done about that, which was much worse that the players actions!

No harm, but this is more nonsense.

What makes it nonsense?

The rulebook and what is stated within re video evidence makes it nonsense. Show me in the rule book (or the poster who claimed it to be so) that the bit in bold is true and I'll happily retract

I've no idea what's in the rule book. I was asking a question. Normally when people make a statement about something being nonsense they will also state why

[JoG2]

Whilst the rule book states "Any video footage as long as it's 'reliable and unedited'. Back and white can be used", this still has to be provided by a proper media outlet, to be credible to stand up to Appeals etc.   Unlike the Social Media evidence that appears to have been used by RTE Sunday Game etc, which not only does it not show the beginning of the Melee but appears to show only parts of what actually happened.  How RTE were even permitted to show this given it was not actual footage from a proper camera at the match also begs questions for the Legal Teams.  Both Teams were entitled to appeal and it is actually laughable the uproar at present from Donegal and other counties......having been at the match and viewed exactly what started it.....Murphy attacking Grogan with a Lines Man right beside them ....  Donegal only took their punishment as they were afraid of video evidence of this being provided.  More worrying for the GAA was the fact that Donegal Stewards pushing and shoving Armagh players to the ground during the Melee, were clearly seen on this Unofficial Video evidence and yet nothing has been said or done about that, which was much worse that the players actions!

No harm, but this is more nonsense.

What makes it nonsense?

The rulebook and what is stated within re video evidence makes it nonsense. Show me in the rule book (or the poster who claimed it to be so) that the bit in bold is true and I'll happily retract

I've no idea what's in the rule book. I was asking a question. Normally when people make a statement about something being nonsense they will also state why

I had already stated twice that any video footage can be used

[Milltown Row2]

Be funny I'd Rory staged a few videos of fights on a 'field' and used it as 'actual' footage 

I can understand why they'd prefer unedited video footage though. If you were a supporter of one team and had recorded the melee and only showed and edited version/footage of the other teams antics it wouldn't be a true reflection

[tonto1888]

Whilst the rule book states "Any video footage as long as it's 'reliable and unedited'. Back and white can be used", this still has to be provided by a proper media outlet, to be credible to stand up to Appeals etc.   Unlike the Social Media evidence that appears to have been used by RTE Sunday Game etc, which not only does it not show the beginning of the Melee but appears to show only parts of what actually happened.  How RTE were even permitted to show this given it was not actual footage from a proper camera at the match also begs questions for the Legal Teams.  Both Teams were entitled to appeal and it is actually laughable the uproar at present from Donegal and other counties......having been at the match and viewed exactly what started it.....Murphy attacking Grogan with a Lines Man right beside them ....  Donegal only took their punishment as they were afraid of video evidence of this being provided.  More worrying for the GAA was the fact that Donegal Stewards pushing and shoving Armagh players to the ground during the Melee, were clearly seen on this Unofficial Video evidence and yet nothing has been said or done about that, which was much worse that the players actions!

No harm, but this is more nonsense.

What makes it nonsense?

The rulebook and what is stated within re video evidence makes it nonsense. Show me in the rule book (or the poster who claimed it to be so) that the bit in bold is true and I'll happily retract

I've no idea what's in the rule book. I was asking a question. Normally when people make a statement about something being nonsense they will also state why

I had already stated twice that any video footage can be used

I just looked up the rule book. Video evidence can be used

iii) Video evidence introduced by any party shall be admissible provided that:
(a) a copy has been furnished to all other parties within a reasonable period prior to the Hearing, and
(b) the Hearings Committee is satisfied that the video evidence is reliable and unedited;


That's taken from Chapter 7. Hearings. Z aa 1 (iii)

So I guess it wasn't all nonsense. Dunno where the part about  proper media etc comes into it. Inference on the posters part perhaps.

[JoG2]

Hopefully we've a great summer of football and not endless days of these 'melee's' and post mortems, rules and procedures!