The DUP thread

[Lubo Moravcik]

Seen some tosser making a dick of himself outside the courtroom when Donaldson came out. Some people do anything to post online.

Major c**k up by the police to bring him out and no transport. Saw a photo of that man and he looks exactly like you expect him to. Bryson seems to think he's a republican.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1783121474527580403

I'm almost certain Ben Lowry says good to see you to him and seemed to know where he was from.

Could be a republican but highly unlikely.

Doesn't look like he knows him to me. Ben Lowry just being nosy.

[general_lee]

Seen some tosser making a dick of himself outside the courtroom when Donaldson came out. Some people do anything to post online.

Allegedly a TUV supporter, but that could be BS.

Although the same moron posts another video where he's approached by Ben Lowry who seems to know him going by the interaction.

That's a nyuck if ever I heard one. Doubt he's a TUV man.

[quit yo jibbajabba]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68647494.amp

[David McKeown]

Only thing for sure is that there are no winners, but hopefully justice is service.

As I said before, it is hard to see how you can prove something 20 years ago beyond reasonable doubt, I doubt there were witnesses other than his wife.

Hearing other cases the PPS didn't prosecute due unlikelihood of conviction even when there is evidence, they must feel there's a high chance of conviction based on what ever evidence they have. No?

I've no idea myself - I'm doing a lot of reading between the lines and may well be getting it wrong.

Today was the 1st appearance. I'd be shocked if the PPS even have the full file yet let alone have made a decision. It would be unusual for them to have the full file yet particularly if the allegations only surfaced in March.

So does that mean the PPS could still decide not prosecute?
I've no idea how these things work, I'd made the assumption it only gets this far if the PPS are already in a position to prosecute.
Interesting.

Police once they arrest someone can question them for a total period of initially 24 hours before they must release them without charge or charge them.  That time can be extended firstly by senior by police officers and then by courts.  Until that time is used up police can release upon pre charge bail in order to gather further evidence but conditions are largely unenforceable (not going into the details of that here not really relevant).   Once police believe they have sufficient evidence to establish a prime facie case they can charge.  Alternatively they can release for report.  Neither way suggests the evidence is any stronger or weaker than the other it more comes down to the perceived necessity by police for bail conditions and/or a remand.  The reason some are charged is essentially that police believe there a likelihood of reoffending if not charged, is there a likelihood of interference with witnesses or is there a likelihood of absconding.  Rarely there may be other reasons for charging such as to uphold public confidence but these are rare.

If an individual is charged they can be kept to the next remand court (the next day or two if its over a holiday or weekend) if PSNI feel that remand is necessary to meet the above.   Or they can be released on post charge bail by the custody sergeant who will set a date within 28 days for a defendant to appear at court and will set bail conditions.  That is what happened in this case.

After charge PSNI will continue to gather evidence and collate the already gathered evidence in order to submit a file to the PPS.  Once a file is received it will be allocated to a suitably qualified prosecutor who will review the file and if necessary request the police to gather further evidence.  Once the PPS have a full file they will decide whether to prosecute and what charges are to be prosecuted and where they are to be prosecuted.

Asking how long that process will last is like asking how long is a piece of string.  I recently had a fast tracked one that took 14 months but I've had ones take anything from 4 months to 3 years.  It depends on the amount of evidence, the quality, the likelihood of getting more, how busy the directing officer is, how busy the investigating officer is etc etc.

With a charge sheet case the court will keep under review how long things are taking.  Had the case been taken for report then its simply a case of when PPS can get round to it, but defendants aren't on bail in report cases. 

Statistically report cases have a higher conviction rate but a lower decision to prosecute rate but there's very little difference.

Ultimately all cases investigated by police are sent to PPS for decision.  A lot never see the light of day, some get dropped after being charged and others get prosecuted the whole way to trial.  At this moment nothing has happened that I am aware of that could lead to any proper conclusions on the strength of the evidence and we would simply be speculating.

[tbrick18]

Only thing for sure is that there are no winners, but hopefully justice is service.

As I said before, it is hard to see how you can prove something 20 years ago beyond reasonable doubt, I doubt there were witnesses other than his wife.

Hearing other cases the PPS didn't prosecute due unlikelihood of conviction even when there is evidence, they must feel there's a high chance of conviction based on what ever evidence they have. No?

I've no idea myself - I'm doing a lot of reading between the lines and may well be getting it wrong.

Today was the 1st appearance. I'd be shocked if the PPS even have the full file yet let alone have made a decision. It would be unusual for them to have the full file yet particularly if the allegations only surfaced in March.

So does that mean the PPS could still decide not prosecute?
I've no idea how these things work, I'd made the assumption it only gets this far if the PPS are already in a position to prosecute.
Interesting.

Police once they arrest someone can question them for a total period of initially 24 hours before they must release them without charge or charge them.  That time can be extended firstly by senior by police officers and then by courts.  Until that time is used up police can release upon pre charge bail in order to gather further evidence but conditions are largely unenforceable (not going into the details of that here not really relevant).   Once police believe they have sufficient evidence to establish a prime facie case they can charge.  Alternatively they can release for report.  Neither way suggests the evidence is any stronger or weaker than the other it more comes down to the perceived necessity by police for bail conditions and/or a remand.  The reason some are charged is essentially that police believe there a likelihood of reoffending if not charged, is there a likelihood of interference with witnesses or is there a likelihood of absconding.  Rarely there may be other reasons for charging such as to uphold public confidence but these are rare.

If an individual is charged they can be kept to the next remand court (the next day or two if its over a holiday or weekend) if PSNI feel that remand is necessary to meet the above.   Or they can be released on post charge bail by the custody sergeant who will set a date within 28 days for a defendant to appear at court and will set bail conditions.  That is what happened in this case.

After charge PSNI will continue to gather evidence and collate the already gathered evidence in order to submit a file to the PPS.  Once a file is received it will be allocated to a suitably qualified prosecutor who will review the file and if necessary request the police to gather further evidence.  Once the PPS have a full file they will decide whether to prosecute and what charges are to be prosecuted and where they are to be prosecuted.

Asking how long that process will last is like asking how long is a piece of string.  I recently had a fast tracked one that took 14 months but I've had ones take anything from 4 months to 3 years.  It depends on the amount of evidence, the quality, the likelihood of getting more, how busy the directing officer is, how busy the investigating officer is etc etc.

With a charge sheet case the court will keep under review how long things are taking.  Had the case been taken for report then its simply a case of when PPS can get round to it, but defendants aren't on bail in report cases. 

Statistically report cases have a higher conviction rate but a lower decision to prosecute rate but there's very little difference.

Ultimately all cases investigated by police are sent to PPS for decision.  A lot never see the light of day, some get dropped after being charged and others get prosecuted the whole way to trial.  At this moment nothing has happened that I am aware of that could lead to any proper conclusions on the strength of the evidence and we would simply be speculating.

A simple "the PPS might decide not to prosecute" would have sufficed.     
Thanks for that - definitely an education for me on the process.
All the more reason for people not to jump to conclusions at this stage of things I guess as anything could happen.

[Tony Baloney]

Only thing for sure is that there are no winners, but hopefully justice is service.

As I said before, it is hard to see how you can prove something 20 years ago beyond reasonable doubt, I doubt there were witnesses other than his wife.

Hearing other cases the PPS didn't prosecute due unlikelihood of conviction even when there is evidence, they must feel there's a high chance of conviction based on what ever evidence they have. No?

I've no idea myself - I'm doing a lot of reading between the lines and may well be getting it wrong.

Today was the 1st appearance. I'd be shocked if the PPS even have the full file yet let alone have made a decision. It would be unusual for them to have the full file yet particularly if the allegations only surfaced in March.

So does that mean the PPS could still decide not prosecute?
I've no idea how these things work, I'd made the assumption it only gets this far if the PPS are already in a position to prosecute.
Interesting.

Police once they arrest someone can question them for a total period of initially 24 hours before they must release them without charge or charge them.  That time can be extended firstly by senior by police officers and then by courts.  Until that time is used up police can release upon pre charge bail in order to gather further evidence but conditions are largely unenforceable (not going into the details of that here not really relevant).   Once police believe they have sufficient evidence to establish a prime facie case they can charge.  Alternatively they can release for report.  Neither way suggests the evidence is any stronger or weaker than the other it more comes down to the perceived necessity by police for bail conditions and/or a remand.  The reason some are charged is essentially that police believe there a likelihood of reoffending if not charged, is there a likelihood of interference with witnesses or is there a likelihood of absconding.  Rarely there may be other reasons for charging such as to uphold public confidence but these are rare.

If an individual is charged they can be kept to the next remand court (the next day or two if its over a holiday or weekend) if PSNI feel that remand is necessary to meet the above.   Or they can be released on post charge bail by the custody sergeant who will set a date within 28 days for a defendant to appear at court and will set bail conditions.  That is what happened in this case.

After charge PSNI will continue to gather evidence and collate the already gathered evidence in order to submit a file to the PPS.  Once a file is received it will be allocated to a suitably qualified prosecutor who will review the file and if necessary request the police to gather further evidence.  Once the PPS have a full file they will decide whether to prosecute and what charges are to be prosecuted and where they are to be prosecuted.

Asking how long that process will last is like asking how long is a piece of string.  I recently had a fast tracked one that took 14 months but I've had ones take anything from 4 months to 3 years.  It depends on the amount of evidence, the quality, the likelihood of getting more, how busy the directing officer is, how busy the investigating officer is etc etc.

With a charge sheet case the court will keep under review how long things are taking.  Had the case been taken for report then its simply a case of when PPS can get round to it, but defendants aren't on bail in report cases. 

Statistically report cases have a higher conviction rate but a lower decision to prosecute rate but there's very little difference.

Ultimately all cases investigated by police are sent to PPS for decision.  A lot never see the light of day, some get dropped after being charged and others get prosecuted the whole way to trial.  At this moment nothing has happened that I am aware of that could lead to any proper conclusions on the strength of the evidence and we would simply be speculating.

A simple "the PPS might decide not to prosecute" would have sufficed.     
Thanks for that - definitely an education for me on the process.
All the more reason for people not to jump to conclusions at this stage of things I guess as anything could happen.

That'll be £700 please.

[marty34]

David, regarding the PPS. How many people work there?

So say a case comes to them from the cops. Do a small group of them look at it and decide to prosecute or is it discussed between a big group and an answer is given?

I was just wondering how it works. I hear PPS mentioned a lot but am just wondering how it is behind the scenes.

[Main Street]

Seen some tosser making a dick of himself outside the courtroom when Donaldson came out. Some people do anything to post online.

Major c**k up by the police to bring him out and no transport. Saw a photo of that man and he looks exactly like you expect him to. Bryson seems to think he's a republican.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1783121474527580403

I'm almost certain Ben Lowry says good to see you to him and seemed to know where he was from.

Could be a republican but highly unlikely.

The "good to see you" greeting was so low key as to mean the sewer rats I have to associate with in order to get a bit of info.

[David McKeown]

David, regarding the PPS. How many people work there?

So say a case comes to them from the cops. Do a small group of them look at it and decide to prosecute or is it discussed between a big group and an answer is given?

I was just wondering how it works. I hear PPS mentioned a lot but am just wondering how it is behind the scenes.

Not sure of the exact numbers but around 150 - 200 prosecutors and 300 - 350 support staff split across different regions and specialisms. Cases will be effectively triaged to the correct team and level of seniority. Ultimately it's the directing officers responsibility but they will know seek help and assistance from colleagues and superiors if necessary.