NFL Division 1 2024

[APM]

What exactly is Kieran Donaghys role ?

Forwards coach as far as I know. Think he's responsible for a lot of the route one football we've played in recent years which has made us so good to watch.

In fairness from speaking to a good few lads on the panel, he is absolutely an top class speaker and great man to have involved in the set up.

If he is the forwards coach then he must have took time off since the start of the season as we have gone back to the lateral defensive tripe that we seen in Ballybofey during last years Ulster championship. Which is baffling when you consider the turnaround in our form after that match in the games against Tyrone, Donegal and Galway. Exciting attacking football where we kicked the ball to inside forwards, created loads of goal chances and got the supporters off the edge of their seats. If we continue playing the sort of football we seen on Saturday the big crowds that are currently following Armagh won't be long dwindling away again. The most disappointing thing of the weekend in Tralee was the actual match itself. Armagh are being stifled by fear at the minute and our players don't suit this slow possession based build up stuff. We need it fast and frantic but for some reason we have gone back to this over analytic approach.   

And what did you expect to see in February ?
Armagh's priority in this League is staying up.
The fancy stuff will come later.

I expected to see a continuation of the type of football we played after the Ballybofey defeat last season. Playing the type of high octane attacking football that suits the players we have. Keeping 3/4 forwards up the pitch and transitioning quickly and pressing the opposition on kick outs.

Realistically a balance has to be struck. We were far to open defensively against Galway last year.

Too open defensively has been the Achilles heel in all the championship defeats under McGeeney. High octane attacking football as pleasing as it is to watch it leaves the defence exposed, should be no issue if the defence is worked on during the league that's what even Kerry did last year.

Flooding the defence just by getting loads of bodies back is totally different to working on our individual defending. Kerrys attack was successfully stifled on Saturday but at what expense. McCambridge for example shut down Clifford well but he had loads of protection in front of him so I don't think we learned anything new about his ability to defend one on one in space.

If some supporters want us to play more defensively then fine but then don't expect the attack not to suffer as the ball will have to be worked up the pitch much more slowly through the hands. You'll see more of Murnin playing midfield as other players like Hall, Duffy, Kelly and Cumiskey are sacrificed to help form that defensive shield. We'll sit back on opposition kick outs and keep that rigid defensive shield in place. We'll keep the score down that way and will be competitive and will bring the game down to the last 10 minutes in most games but it won't improve our chances of being successful that some seem to think. And we will be bored to death in the process.

Its what Kerry,Dublin,Mayo and Galway all do this when out of possession regardless of what some in media say.  Armagh have to learn to adjust and move the ball quicker when possession is gained.  It's striking the balance between making ourselves hard to score against and doing enough damage the other end to win matches.   

One final point,  lets not forget it was Armagh 0-13 Galway 1-16 after 71 minutes last year could easily have been a different narrative but for the late rally to grab extra time.

One additional point,
Armagh didn't score for over 21 minutes in yesterday's game - between the 39th and 61st minute. That was over a quarter of the 79 minutes that were played.  They scored 11 points in the remaining 58 minutes, which is about a score every 5 minutes.  It was that 20 minute period during the middle of the second half that killed us.  We should have expected at least three points during that period based on the scoring pattern of the rest of the game.  This is what I meant by game management. 

During those 21 minutes they were turned over multiple times between the 50s. The cheap ones are in bold.
- Turbit after poor pass from O'Neill, 44mins
- Duffy swarmed from the Armagh kickout 45:30
- Burns fumbles the ball, 46:19
- McCabe stumbles carrying the ball 47:26
- Murnion dispossessed, 51:22
- Burns fists the ball to himself and loses it, 53:30,

During that period O'Neill also missed free (55 mins) and the referee probably cost us a point due to the stoppage for Murnion's injury (49 mins) when it looked like Armagh were through.

For all the talk of the lack of quick ball into the forward line, most of the times it happened in the first half we were dispossessed.  Remember, Kerry also set up very defensively yesterday, but their man-on-man defending was also excellent and were able to get a hand in with many of those long balls in. 

I guess the point I'm making is that it's not all about quick transition. When we tried the long ball yesterday it didn't work and it only worked once for Kerry when it went through Aaron McKay's hands at the end.     

[Armagh18]

What exactly is Kieran Donaghys role ?

Forwards coach as far as I know. Think he's responsible for a lot of the route one football we've played in recent years which has made us so good to watch.

In fairness from speaking to a good few lads on the panel, he is absolutely an top class speaker and great man to have involved in the set up.

If he is the forwards coach then he must have took time off since the start of the season as we have gone back to the lateral defensive tripe that we seen in Ballybofey during last years Ulster championship. Which is baffling when you consider the turnaround in our form after that match in the games against Tyrone, Donegal and Galway. Exciting attacking football where we kicked the ball to inside forwards, created loads of goal chances and got the supporters off the edge of their seats. If we continue playing the sort of football we seen on Saturday the big crowds that are currently following Armagh won't be long dwindling away again. The most disappointing thing of the weekend in Tralee was the actual match itself. Armagh are being stifled by fear at the minute and our players don't suit this slow possession based build up stuff. We need it fast and frantic but for some reason we have gone back to this over analytic approach.   

And what did you expect to see in February ?
Armagh's priority in this League is staying up.
The fancy stuff will come later.

I expected to see a continuation of the type of football we played after the Ballybofey defeat last season. Playing the type of high octane attacking football that suits the players we have. Keeping 3/4 forwards up the pitch and transitioning quickly and pressing the opposition on kick outs.

Realistically a balance has to be struck. We were far to open defensively against Galway last year.

Too open defensively has been the Achilles heel in all the championship defeats under McGeeney. High octane attacking football as pleasing as it is to watch it leaves the defence exposed, should be no issue if the defence is worked on during the league that's what even Kerry did last year.

Flooding the defence just by getting loads of bodies back is totally different to working on our individual defending. Kerrys attack was successfully stifled on Saturday but at what expense. McCambridge for example shut down Clifford well but he had loads of protection in front of him so I don't think we learned anything new about his ability to defend one on one in space.

If some supporters want us to play more defensively then fine but then don't expect the attack not to suffer as the ball will have to be worked up the pitch much more slowly through the hands. You'll see more of Murnin playing midfield as other players like Hall, Duffy, Kelly and Cumiskey are sacrificed to help form that defensive shield. We'll sit back on opposition kick outs and keep that rigid defensive shield in place. We'll keep the score down that way and will be competitive and will bring the game down to the last 10 minutes in most games but it won't improve our chances of being successful that some seem to think. And we will be bored to death in the process.

Its what Kerry,Dublin,Mayo and Galway all do this when out of possession regardless of what some in media say.  Armagh have to learn to adjust and move the ball quicker when possession is gained.  It's striking the balance between making ourselves hard to score against and doing enough damage the other end to win matches.   

One final point,  lets not forget it was Armagh 0-13 Galway 1-16 after 71 minutes last year could easily have been a different narrative but for the late rally to grab extra time.

One additional point,
Armagh didn't score for over 21 minutes in yesterday's game - between the 39th and 61st minute. That was over a quarter of the 79 minutes that were played.  They scored 11 points in the remaining 58 minutes, which is about a score every 5 minutes.  It was that 20 minute period during the middle of the second half that killed us.  We should have expected at least three points during that period based on the scoring pattern of the rest of the game.  This is what I meant by game management. 

During those 21 minutes they were turned over multiple times between the 50s. The cheap ones are in bold.
- Turbit after poor pass from O'Neill, 44mins
- Duffy swarmed from the Armagh kickout 45:30
- Burns fumbles the ball, 46:19
- McCabe stumbles carrying the ball 47:26
- Murnion dispossessed, 51:22
- Burns fists the ball to himself and loses it, 53:30,

During that period O'Neill also missed free (55 mins) and the referee probably cost us a point due to the stoppage for Murnion's injury (49 mins) when it looked like Armagh were through.

For all the talk of the lack of quick ball into the forward line, most of the times it happened in the first half we were dispossessed.  Remember, Kerry also set up very defensively yesterday, but their man-on-man defending was also excellent and were able to get a hand in with many of those long balls in.

That Burns fist to himself was baffling not sure what he was at. Haven't seen a replay but thought he could have had a free as the Kerry man blocked him running on to it.

The one decent ball from memory that went into O'Neill he was fit to get out in front, turn and pop over a good score- ideal tactic would be to have him in that position as often as possible- very difficult to mark a player like that

[joemamas]

The only positive out of that game is that he has put two great performances back to back, long may it continue.

This got lost in the Armagh/Kerry chat, just reposted from yesterday, curious as to what the thoughts of the Mayo /Galway bloggers on the board.

To be fair "An Fhairche Abu", you have been one of the most educated and honest commentators on Galway football on this board.
However as a Mayoman, I believe you are viewing the glass as half empty.

Galway have played the league without a full team, Three starting forwards, have hardly played, one of them arguably the best in Ireland. The lack of any other scoring forwards options was their achilles heel last, as including added time they failed to score in the last 15 minuets of the all Ireland final.
They have also been down two backs, a bit easier to replace, but still have a very solid base, who aside from not challenging Clifford for the ridiculously easy marks in the final, showed themselves to be very adept.
In addition to the forwards which have had to step up, Peter Cooke is another who did not figure last year, should be a contributor this year.
Finally, how big of a motivator is hurt, revenge and knowing deep down that you were probably better than Kerry last year, yet walking away with nothing. IMO immeasurable.

As I am less distracted than usual on. Sunday, I will also provide my thoughts on my Mayo four games in.

The good;
Physical fitness and conditioning has really improved, quiet a few players have bulked up and are not getting knocked off the ball as easily as they were.
More decisive attacking, less one dimensional than under James Horan. Inside movement and tactics seems to be streets ahead of where we were.
Better kicking skills, which has resulted in the ball being moved more quickly thus not allowing opposing midfielders and sweepers to reset.
After ten years Aiden O Shea is finally being played where he should be.
More options than last two years around the middle third, in a very crowded calendar, backs ups in this area vital.
For once we seem to have 9-10 forwards that appear to be capable and comfortable of actually kicking points from inside 35 yards.

The bad;
We need two corner backs, neither Hession nor Coyne have the physiques to hold off a robust inside forward, very evident so far, especially yesterday in first 20 mins until Tyrone collapsed out the field.
Hession is worthy of a half back berth, Coyne I am not sure of yet.
Unnecessary implosion against Armagh scares me, We still need a goalkeeper comfortable under a high ball, still have nightmares that Henelley will do a Henelley at some point in the latter stages of the championship should we be so lucky to be there.
Stephen Coen tries hard, but just does not have the speed for inter county football, really has no recovery whatsoever.
So predictable, opposing defenders just back off him knowing that he is instructed not to shoot.
Fionn McDonagh tries very hard and does a lot of good defending, but has zero scoring threat, he will continually be pushed on to his right foot, which he is uncomfortable kicking with.

Overall, happy with our progress, I like McStay, really rate Donie Buckley, Rochford is being given credit for new work with inside forwards. We are an unfinished article, but are trying out new players who are adding value that's for sure.

I will go on record that I do feel Mayo or Galway will be in the All-Ireland final, at this point leaning towards Galway, who knows maybe both.

[Maroon Manc]

A poor poor performance but somehow managed to put themselves in a winning position and yet again game management let them down, 2 poor kick passes led to 2 Donegal scores in the last 10 minutes. Kickouts poor again, Donegal clearly won a fair bit more primary possession and kicked some really bad wides although Galway left a good few behind them too.

Tierney excellent again and Finnerty made a difference when he came in, Comer & Walsh are huge losses; add in Finnerty has only played about 60 minutes out of the 4 games so far and Culhane who was most likely to benefit from Walsh & Comer's absence been injured too has left Galway really short in the full forward line.

6 points might not be enough this year to avoid relegation.

[seafoid]

What is the story with Tyrone?  Was it 2015 that Sean Cavanagh took McManus out with the rugby move? They reached an all Ireland final in 2018. Ten of the players Tyrone used against Mayo in 2021 had been beaten out the gate by Dublin in 2018.
Tyrone were building for a few years. So was 2021 the end of a cycle ? And is it unrealistic to expect them to be competitive against counties further into the iterations ? And how many of the 2018 team are still on the panel? 

[clarshack]

What is the story with Tyrone?  Was it 2015 that Sean Cavanagh took McManus out with the rugby move? They reached an all Ireland final in 2018. Ten of the players Tyrone used against Mayo in 2021 had been beaten out the gate by Dublin in 2018.
Tyrone were building for a few years. So was 2021 the end of a cycle ? And is it unrealistic to expect them to be competitive against counties further into the iterations ? And how many of the 2018 team are still on the panel?

It was 2013 AI 1/4 Final.

We were beaten out the gate by Dublin in 2017 but in the 2018 final the difference was 1-3.

[seafoid]

What is the story with Tyrone?  Was it 2015 that Sean Cavanagh took McManus out with the rugby move? They reached an all Ireland final in 2018. Ten of the players Tyrone used against Mayo in 2021 had been beaten out the gate by Dublin in 2018.
Tyrone were building for a few years. So was 2021 the end of a cycle ? And is it unrealistic to expect them to be competitive against counties further into the iterations ? And how many of the 2018 team are still on the panel?

It was 2013 AI 1/4 Final.

We were beaten out the gate by Dublin in 2017 but in the 2018 final the difference was 1-3.

GRMA. But what is the problem now ?

[Blowitupref]

All 4 matches getting full coverage this weekend

Saturday
Armagh v Donegal, Athletic Grounds, 7.30pm - TG4 TV

Sunday
Tyrone v Kerry, Healy Park, 12.45pm  - TG4 TV

Galway v Monaghan, Pearse Stadium, 12.45pm - TG4 App

Roscommon v Mayo, Dr Hyde Park, 2.45pm - TG4 TV

[Wildweasel74]

What no Derry v Dublin lol

[bennydorano]

What no Derry v Dublin lol

It ison RTE

[Wildweasel74]

Need keep them Dubs happy!

[Blowitupref]

What no Derry v Dublin lol

I did say the 4 fixtures in this Division.  And yes Derry,Dublin should be Division 1 next year

[An Fhairche Abu]

The only positive out of that game is that he has put two great performances back to back, long may it continue.

This got lost in the Armagh/Kerry chat, just reposted from yesterday, curious as to what the thoughts of the Mayo /Galway bloggers on the board.

To be fair "An Fhairche Abu", you have been one of the most educated and honest commentators on Galway football on this board.
However as a Mayoman, I believe you are viewing the glass as half empty.

Galway have played the league without a full team, Three starting forwards, have hardly played, one of them arguably the best in Ireland. The lack of any other scoring forwards options was their achilles heel last, as including added time they failed to score in the last 15 minuets of the all Ireland final.
They have also been down two backs, a bit easier to replace, but still have a very solid base, who aside from not challenging Clifford for the ridiculously easy marks in the final, showed themselves to be very adept.
In addition to the forwards which have had to step up, Peter Cooke is another who did not figure last year, should be a contributor this year.
Finally, how big of a motivator is hurt, revenge and knowing deep down that you were probably better than Kerry last year, yet walking away with nothing. IMO immeasurable.

I will go on record that I do feel Mayo or Galway will be in the All-Ireland final, at this point leaning towards Galway, who knows maybe both.

Honest - I would like to think so. Educated - in no way, shape or form, far more properly qualified GAA people on here and elsewhere. Glass half empty - that's my natural inclination I'm afraid.

Galway made a great run last year and there is no doubt left a very winnable final after us but that said, and in fairness to Kerry, Galway were ultimately found wanting in several respects and weren't good enough on the day to do the business. Hurt over losing a final and the experience of playing on the biggest day should be of benefit but that motivation will only carry a team so far. We have a number of players who are definitely in the top bracket but when you get to wider squad I don't know if we have the bench impact needed or whether we can hold up to many injuries at all. Molloy and Silke are huge losses from a squad perspective, O Laoi was the 16th man last year and is gone as well. Big turnover of players has killed Galway year after year and there is no change in 2023, Flaherty could have been expected to try and challenge for the number one jersey but has opted out.

All that said if you told me that Galway would get nothing out of the league (obviously outside of staying up) then sorting out the kick outs and being able to find players from restarts consistently down the stretch of matches then I'd be happy enough with it. Galway's current propensity to give up a load of scores in the final minutes of matches is directly traceable back to this, a sense of panic descends because once the opposition gets a run on the kickouts and starts getting points, Galway don't have the ability to pull a cast iron routine out of the bag that will nearly guarantee possession. Gleeson is limited on restarts and is making mistakes under high balls, if every punter in the stands can see this then the highly resourced modern coaching tickets will be targeting it. I'm sure trojan work is going on to try and improve this (it's not all on the keeper either) but it is what it is at the minute, something that will cost us. Realistically if Galway had excellent restarts and could secure enough possession on a consistent basis then we could have potentially been out the gap at HT in the final last year. That wasn't the case and it cost badly, it will do so again this year at some stage unless it improves.
The vagaries of the new format and the extra games make it hard to predict who will come out on top, suffice to say that the stronger squads will have an advantage. This is where I feel Galway may be a bit light, plus we have no natural replacement waiting in the wings for Paul Conroy who is still vital for Galway even at this stage of his career. I did not see the run Galway went on last year coming so we'll wait and see how this year plays out, we are not playing well in this league but championship performances are all that matter. It might be that the final appearance last year may prove to have been a Down 2010esque flash in the pan but it's up to the players to try and get back there in the next couple of seasons again.

While they are the front runners I don't see Kerry as unbeatable favourites (yet at least, they may kick on this summer to a new level, they have got over the hurdle now) and if Clifford gets injured they will be eminently beatable if a quality opponent shows up and plays to their best on the day. Dublin will surely go all out this year to get another before irreplaceable legends like McCarthy hang the boots up. Derry will look to go a stage better and Mayo playing to potential could absolutely make and win an AI final, sure they played in the two previous before last year and have blooded a lot of new players who might step up to replace the previous heroes that have departed over the past few years. It might be more open than people think, or perhaps we'll just end up with another Dublin Kerry final!!

[seafoid]

Dublin and Kerry. Galway could end up playing both at the business end.  Galway have never beaten Dublin in an all Ireland final.

https://twitter.com/RTEgaa/status/1629979786679554049

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/02/24/new-calendar-means-kerrys-league-struggles-could-come-back-to-bite-them/

From last year's All-Ireland winning team, Kerry have lost David Moran to retirement and a couple of squad players in Joe O'Connor (injury) and Jack Savage (abroad). All Stars Shane Ryan and Gavin White are injured and David Clifford and Sean O'Shea only returned last weekend for a half. Paul Geaney and Stephen O'Brien are a bit away yet, not to mention they'll both turn 32 this year.
Yet who has staked their claim? Barry O'Sullivan around the middle third maybe. Darragh Roche has done his bit but he's a tip-of-the-spear type of forward and there is no vacancy in that position for Kerry as long as Clifford can tie his laces
Again, none of this would usually raise an eyebrow after three games of league football and most likely it still shouldn't. But if O'Connor has seemed a bit crankier than usual these past few weeks, it's not hard to work out why. Missing so many players for the start of the season was never ideal but he could at least hope to use the first three games to give himself options for the rest of the year.
Yet who has staked their claim? Barry O'Sullivan around the middle third maybe. Darragh Roche has done his bit but he's a tip-of-the-spear type of forward and there is no vacancy in that position for Kerry as long as Clifford can tie his laces. Tony Brosnan has been lively but he's a known quantity, he made his senior debut for Kerry in 2016. All in all, Kerry's championship team seems likely to be more or less the same as last year's. But that cast of characters was far more advanced this time last year than where it is now.
Will it be enough? Maybe. Would they be able to absorb a Clifford injury in June or July? Unlikely. Are we really, seriously, hypothesising this stuff before we're halfway through the league? Damn right we are.
The new championship body clock demands nothing less.

[Armagh18]

Dublin and Kerry. Galway could end up playing both at the business end.  Galway have never beaten Dublin in an all Ireland final.

https://twitter.com/RTEgaa/status/1629979786679554049

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/02/24/new-calendar-means-kerrys-league-struggles-could-come-back-to-bite-them/

From last year's All-Ireland winning team, Kerry have lost David Moran to retirement and a couple of squad players in Joe O'Connor (injury) and Jack Savage (abroad). All Stars Shane Ryan and Gavin White are injured and David Clifford and Sean O'Shea only returned last weekend for a half. Paul Geaney and Stephen O'Brien are a bit away yet, not to mention they'll both turn 32 this year.
Yet who has staked their claim? Barry O'Sullivan around the middle third maybe. Darragh Roche has done his bit but he's a tip-of-the-spear type of forward and there is no vacancy in that position for Kerry as long as Clifford can tie his laces
Again, none of this would usually raise an eyebrow after three games of league football and most likely it still shouldn't. But if O'Connor has seemed a bit crankier than usual these past few weeks, it's not hard to work out why. Missing so many players for the start of the season was never ideal but he could at least hope to use the first three games to give himself options for the rest of the year.
Yet who has staked their claim? Barry O'Sullivan around the middle third maybe. Darragh Roche has done his bit but he's a tip-of-the-spear type of forward and there is no vacancy in that position for Kerry as long as Clifford can tie his laces. Tony Brosnan has been lively but he's a known quantity, he made his senior debut for Kerry in 2016. All in all, Kerry's championship team seems likely to be more or less the same as last year's. But that cast of characters was far more advanced this time last year than where it is now.
Will it be enough? Maybe. Would they be able to absorb a Clifford injury in June or July? Unlikely. Are we really, seriously, hypothesising this stuff before we're halfway through the league? Damn right we are.
The new championship body clock demands nothing less.

If Kerry were to lose Clifford I think ourselves, Mayo and Galway would be well able to beat them and the other D1 teams would fancy themselves, Derry and Dublin likely beat them too.