Time to merge the LGFA and Camogie Association under the GAA umbrella

Started by Eamonnca1, October 03, 2017, 07:39:54 PM

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tiempo

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40817007.html

The most laugh out loud surreal article you could ever wish to read (perfectly in keeping with the subject matter). Wtf
is it with people on this topic!

Can no-one put forward the simple point that the 3 organisations should strongly consider integration without entering into the GAA equivalent of full neo-liberal genetalia obsessed bullshit!

Fully in favour of integration but yeno what, it's OK not integrate either! I have to say Anglea Walsh has been the most rational balanced view I've heard yet, its not f**king rocket science!

https://open.spotify.com/episode/3nAD4yG1YHW6Sen6eLsvLI?si=FgA9_Wu0Rnuar7E6jm1wPA&utm_source=copy-link

twohands!!!

My thought is that there must be an absolute tonne of both time and money being wasted by having 3 different organisations.

Think of it this way - imagine if there was 4 separate GAA organisations - one for football, one for hurling, one for rounders and one for handball.

Imagine how much of a disaster that would be and how much more extra money it would cost.

Not to mention how much time would be wasted on duplication of a whole load of administration stuff.

I can't help but think that commissioning some outside consultancy firm to look into this might be something that would pay for itself very quickly.

thewobbler

Quote from: twohands!!! on February 28, 2022, 10:52:05 PM
My thought is that there must be an absolute tonne of both time and money being wasted by having 3 different organisations.

Think of it this way - imagine if there was 4 separate GAA organisations - one for football, one for hurling, one for rounders and one for handball.

Imagine how much of a disaster that would be and how much more extra money it would cost.

Not to mention how much time would be wasted on duplication of a whole load of administration stuff.

I can't help but think that commissioning some outside consultancy firm to look into this might be something that would pay for itself very quickly.

I honestly think you have it inside out.

Instead of multiple groups of people with vested interests in their preferred sport putting their time freely into ensuring the delivery of their sports, you believe that one group of people will be able to objectively and equally balance the needs of 4 sports at once, while leaving their personal preferences at the door.

Furthermore the only outcome that will arise from bringing consultants in, is more consultants coming in after them, and more and more again, until there's a 1% of our members getting paid handsomely to "guide" our sports on behalf of players.


From the Bunker

Quote from: twohands!!! on February 28, 2022, 10:52:05 PM
My thought is that there must be an absolute tonne of both time and money being wasted by having 3 different organisations.

Think of it this way - imagine if there was 4 separate GAA organisations - one for football, one for hurling, one for rounders and one for handball.

Imagine how much of a disaster that would be and how much more extra money it would cost.

Not to mention how much time would be wasted on duplication of a whole load of administration stuff.

I can't help but think that commissioning some outside consultancy firm to look into this might be something that would pay for itself very quickly.

You have to remember that when you merge organisations or when you have which is in this case a take-over, Key positions are lost by the organisation being assimilated. Total Power/Control is also lost by the assimilated.

tiempo

FtB - which is why I think the LGFA are going to have serious reservations about a merger and might also vote against it (again), and I can't say I'd blame them. It'll be gold standard irony if the LGFA don't go for it, I wonder will the GPA be as quick to lambast them for a perceived lack of equality, diversity, etc.

All this talk of needing pitches, if there's one thing the GAA is not short on its pitches and facilities, as Angela Walsh pointed out, the stories of ladies being roaded off pitches are greatly exaggerated. Will the Antrim chair be as quick to demand the proponents of "anti-equality" are "exposed" if the LGFA block the merger... not a snowballs chance in hell

johnnycool

Quote from: tiempo on February 28, 2022, 11:40:39 PM
FtB - which is why I think the LGFA are going to have serious reservations about a merger and might also vote against it (again), and I can't say I'd blame them. It'll be gold standard irony if the LGFA don't go for it, I wonder will the GPA be as quick to lambast them for a perceived lack of equality, diversity, etc.

All this talk of needing pitches, if there's one thing the GAA is not short on its pitches and facilities, as Angela Walsh pointed out, the stories of ladies being roaded off pitches are greatly exaggerated. Will the Antrim chair be as quick to demand the proponents of "anti-equality" are "exposed" if the LGFA block the merger... not a snowballs chance in hell

It's only two weekends ago where Slaughtneil and Sarsfields Galway camogs had to cancel a game on the Saturday as they were told Breffni wasn't playable and both ended up in Wexford of all places the following.

Are you seriously saying that would also have happened if it was and AI mens club football semi-final?


thewobbler

Quote from: johnnycool on March 01, 2022, 07:51:28 AM
Quote from: tiempo on February 28, 2022, 11:40:39 PM
FtB - which is why I think the LGFA are going to have serious reservations about a merger and might also vote against it (again), and I can't say I'd blame them. It'll be gold standard irony if the LGFA don't go for it, I wonder will the GPA be as quick to lambast them for a perceived lack of equality, diversity, etc.

All this talk of needing pitches, if there's one thing the GAA is not short on its pitches and facilities, as Angela Walsh pointed out, the stories of ladies being roaded off pitches are greatly exaggerated. Will the Antrim chair be as quick to demand the proponents of "anti-equality" are "exposed" if the LGFA block the merger... not a snowballs chance in hell

It's only two weekends ago where Slaughtneil and Sarsfields Galway camogs had to cancel a game on the Saturday as they were told Breffni wasn't playable and both ended up in Wexford of all places the following.

Are you seriously saying that would also have happened if it was and AI mens club football semi-final?



On the other hand, camogie and later LGFA were able to establish themselves throughout Ireland without the costs of purchasing or maintaining a playing field, and associated facilities. But availability of these venues resides pretty much in the domain of clubs, not the GAA.

If camogie still doesn't have a network of camogie-friendly club venues to call upon in northwest Ireland, this isn't something that's going to change after a merger.

johnnycool

Quote from: thewobbler on March 01, 2022, 08:28:47 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 01, 2022, 07:51:28 AM
Quote from: tiempo on February 28, 2022, 11:40:39 PM
FtB - which is why I think the LGFA are going to have serious reservations about a merger and might also vote against it (again), and I can't say I'd blame them. It'll be gold standard irony if the LGFA don't go for it, I wonder will the GPA be as quick to lambast them for a perceived lack of equality, diversity, etc.

All this talk of needing pitches, if there's one thing the GAA is not short on its pitches and facilities, as Angela Walsh pointed out, the stories of ladies being roaded off pitches are greatly exaggerated. Will the Antrim chair be as quick to demand the proponents of "anti-equality" are "exposed" if the LGFA block the merger... not a snowballs chance in hell

It's only two weekends ago where Slaughtneil and Sarsfields Galway camogs had to cancel a game on the Saturday as they were told Breffni wasn't playable and both ended up in Wexford of all places the following.

Are you seriously saying that would also have happened if it was and AI mens club football semi-final?



On the other hand, camogie and later LGFA were able to establish themselves throughout Ireland without the costs of purchasing or maintaining a playing field, and associated facilities. But availability of these venues resides pretty much in the domain of clubs, not the GAA.

If camogie still doesn't have a network of camogie-friendly club venues to call upon in northwest Ireland, this isn't something that's going to change after a merger.

apart from Galway and Roscommon there isn't a whole pile of camogie out the North West, but are you telling me clubs would react the same way if Croke Park called looking at pitch availability rather than Caroline Halton?

Truth hurts

The LGFA and camogie association can be quick to ridicule the gaa but they really are trying to take over the GAA. We need to fight back

johnnycool

Quote from: Truth hurts on March 01, 2022, 09:44:14 AM
The LGFA and camogie association can be quick to ridicule the gaa but they really are trying to take over the GAA. We need to fight back

Good lord, will you give it a rest?

thewobbler

Quote from: johnnycool on March 01, 2022, 09:41:21 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 01, 2022, 08:28:47 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 01, 2022, 07:51:28 AM
Quote from: tiempo on February 28, 2022, 11:40:39 PM
FtB - which is why I think the LGFA are going to have serious reservations about a merger and might also vote against it (again), and I can't say I'd blame them. It'll be gold standard irony if the LGFA don't go for it, I wonder will the GPA be as quick to lambast them for a perceived lack of equality, diversity, etc.

All this talk of needing pitches, if there's one thing the GAA is not short on its pitches and facilities, as Angela Walsh pointed out, the stories of ladies being roaded off pitches are greatly exaggerated. Will the Antrim chair be as quick to demand the proponents of "anti-equality" are "exposed" if the LGFA block the merger... not a snowballs chance in hell

It's only two weekends ago where Slaughtneil and Sarsfields Galway camogs had to cancel a game on the Saturday as they were told Breffni wasn't playable and both ended up in Wexford of all places the following.

Are you seriously saying that would also have happened if it was and AI mens club football semi-final?



On the other hand, camogie and later LGFA were able to establish themselves throughout Ireland without the costs of purchasing or maintaining a playing field, and associated facilities. But availability of these venues resides pretty much in the domain of clubs, not the GAA.

If camogie still doesn't have a network of camogie-friendly club venues to call upon in northwest Ireland, this isn't something that's going to change after a merger.

apart from Galway and Roscommon there isn't a whole pile of camogie out the North West, but are you telling me clubs would react the same way if Croke Park called looking at pitch availability rather than Caroline Halton?

I think in event of a merger, the following scenario would play out in this situation.

1. Head of Camogie Fixtures gets a call to say their chosen venue is now unavailable.

2. Same Head of Camogie fixtures pulls out his/her black book and starts calling in favours.

3. But everywhere he/she calls is met with the same basic response "look, we'd love to help, but it's January. It's pissing rain here. Nobody has been on our main playing field since November. We wouldn't be able to get the grass cut or pitch lined. Honestly, would love to help, but we just aren't open."

4. Head of Camogie Fixtures bangs head against wall and calls in Head of All Fixtures for help.

5. Head of All Fixtures dials around the county boards, but as expected on a Nationa League weekend, there's a genuine reticence to host a Camogie match on a field that's going to struggle to hold up for. National League game.

6. Head of All Fixtures digs out his/her black book. But everywhere he/she calls is met with the same basic response "look, we'd love to help, but it's January. It's pissing rain here. Nobody has been on our main playing field since November. We wouldn't be able to get the grass cut or pitch lined. Honestly, would love to help, but we just aren't open."

7. Somewhere along the line, having invited a few more people into the wild goose chase, one of the two Fixture Heads stumbles across a venue that will host the match. It's not ideal, not even close. But the match is 2 days away now, and it's not fair on teams or supporters to have a TBC hanging over it while clinging on for a more suitable venue.

——

Honestly I don't see it being any different to now. Most GAA grounds in Ireland are not fit to host competitive action in January.

Truth hurts

Quote from: thewobbler on March 01, 2022, 09:59:22 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 01, 2022, 09:41:21 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 01, 2022, 08:28:47 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 01, 2022, 07:51:28 AM
Quote from: tiempo on February 28, 2022, 11:40:39 PM
FtB - which is why I think the LGFA are going to have serious reservations about a merger and might also vote against it (again), and I can't say I'd blame them. It'll be gold standard irony if the LGFA don't go for it, I wonder will the GPA be as quick to lambast them for a perceived lack of equality, diversity, etc.

All this talk of needing pitches, if there's one thing the GAA is not short on its pitches and facilities, as Angela Walsh pointed out, the stories of ladies being roaded off pitches are greatly exaggerated. Will the Antrim chair be as quick to demand the proponents of "anti-equality" are "exposed" if the LGFA block the merger... not a snowballs chance in hell

It's only two weekends ago where Slaughtneil and Sarsfields Galway camogs had to cancel a game on the Saturday as they were told Breffni wasn't playable and both ended up in Wexford of all places the following.

Are you seriously saying that would also have happened if it was and AI mens club football semi-final?



On the other hand, camogie and later LGFA were able to establish themselves throughout Ireland without the costs of purchasing or maintaining a playing field, and associated facilities. But availability of these venues resides pretty much in the domain of clubs, not the GAA.

If camogie still doesn't have a network of camogie-friendly club venues to call upon in northwest Ireland, this isn't something that's going to change after a merger.

apart from Galway and Roscommon there isn't a whole pile of camogie out the North West, but are you telling me clubs would react the same way if Croke Park called looking at pitch availability rather than Caroline Halton?

I think in event of a merger, the following scenario would play out in this situation.

1. Head of Camogie Fixtures gets a call to say their chosen venue is now unavailable.

2. Same Head of Camogie fixtures pulls out his/her black book and starts calling in favours.

3. But everywhere he/she calls is met with the same basic response "look, we'd love to help, but it's January. It's pissing rain here. Nobody has been on our main playing field since November. We wouldn't be able to get the grass cut or pitch lined. Honestly, would love to help, but we just aren't open."

4. Head of Camogie Fixtures bangs head against wall and calls in Head of All Fixtures for help.

5. Head of All Fixtures dials around the county boards, but as expected on a Nationa League weekend, there's a genuine reticence to host a Camogie match on a field that's going to struggle to hold up for. National League game.

6. Head of All Fixtures digs out his/her black book. But everywhere he/she calls is met with the same basic response "look, we'd love to help, but it's January. It's pissing rain here. Nobody has been on our main playing field since November. We wouldn't be able to get the grass cut or pitch lined. Honestly, would love to help, but we just aren't open."

7. Somewhere along the line, having invited a few more people into the wild goose chase, one of the two Fixture Heads stumbles across a venue that will host the match. It's not ideal, not even close. But the match is 2 days away now, and it's not fair on teams or supporters to have a TBC hanging over it while clinging on for a more suitable venue.

——

Honestly I don't see it being any different to now. Most GAA grounds in Ireland are not fit to host competitive action in January.

Absolutely correct, how many pitches in Down are available for games at the minute. I would hazard a guess at 10.

tiempo

Where/when does genitalia come into the equation as that seems to be the nub of the issue or an implied sticking point in some quarters?

twohands!!!

Quote from: From the Bunker on February 28, 2022, 11:14:39 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on February 28, 2022, 10:52:05 PM
My thought is that there must be an absolute tonne of both time and money being wasted by having 3 different organisations.

Think of it this way - imagine if there was 4 separate GAA organisations - one for football, one for hurling, one for rounders and one for handball.

Imagine how much of a disaster that would be and how much more extra money it would cost.

Not to mention how much time would be wasted on duplication of a whole load of administration stuff.

I can't help but think that commissioning some outside consultancy firm to look into this might be something that would pay for itself very quickly.

You have to remember that when you merge organisations or when you have which is in this case a take-over, Key positions are lost by the organisation being assimilated. Total Power/Control is also lost by the assimilated.

Yeah I very much think this is the case in terms of some of the insiders of the LGFA and the Camogie Association.

A fair few who prefer being big fish in a small pond.

I have heard of some crazy carry on by one higher-up in the Camogie Association in years past by some folk who have had dealings with them.

SpeculativeEffort

Quote from: thewobbler on February 28, 2022, 11:09:57 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on February 28, 2022, 10:52:05 PM
My thought is that there must be an absolute tonne of both time and money being wasted by having 3 different organisations.

Think of it this way - imagine if there was 4 separate GAA organisations - one for football, one for hurling, one for rounders and one for handball.

Imagine how much of a disaster that would be and how much more extra money it would cost.

Not to mention how much time would be wasted on duplication of a whole load of administration stuff.

I can't help but think that commissioning some outside consultancy firm to look into this might be something that would pay for itself very quickly.

I honestly think you have it inside out.

Instead of multiple groups of people with vested interests in their preferred sport putting their time freely into ensuring the delivery of their sports, you believe that one group of people will be able to objectively and equally balance the needs of 4 sports at once, while leaving their personal preferences at the door.

Furthermore the only outcome that will arise from bringing consultants in, is more consultants coming in after them, and more and more again, until there's a 1% of our members getting paid handsomely to "guide" our sports on behalf of players.

@thewobbler finally someone making sense on this topic. One organisation trying to fairly and equally run 4 sports is not possible. All you need to do is look at the splits and in fighting in that occurs in GAA clubs up and down the country between football and hurling. Hurling's (or football's in other areas) progress is often sabotaged by those within the very same club. The female organisations should lobby for guaranteed rights to facilities and equal funding from government but hold onto their independence and ability to run their games as they see fit.

The GAA will end up like the civil service or EU. Trying to do everything but so tied up in bureaucracy and political correctness that every decision alienates some group. Impossible to govern.