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Why do they do the draw for this before the provincial finals?

It's a good question.  Some teams might now be thinking a loss wouldn't be the end of the world, so it takes the edge off things.

I'd imagine the draw is made in advance for logistical reasons, it allows teams to prepare by knowing when they are first out etc, couldn't leave it until the provincials are over as some teams will be out 6 days later.

It's a whole load of games to whittle the number of teams down from 16 to 12. And when the draw is made you will be able to predict the 4 teams who will be eliminated with a fair degree of certainty. The main interest will centre around which teams top their groups. 

That's true, because after last year, we all now realise what an advantage finishing top appears to be.

I said last year, if additional jeopardy is needed, we could have the four group winners and the best 2nd place team all progress directly to the quarters. The third place team with the worst record would be eliminated - that should mean little or no dead rubbers.

I'd also tweak it by giving the provincial winners and the 4 top league places (who weren't provincial winners) two home games and get rid of the neutral ground game - this would provide better incentives for provincial winners and league placings. It would also boost attendances as the neutral games last year were very poorly attended iirc.

But this scheme basically advantages Dublin and Kerry, if they didn't have enough advantages.

It did cross my mind, maybe we could just give 2 home games to the highest league finishers?
Still, I like the idea of only 3 third place teams progressing, it happens in the tailteann to facilitate New York, but equally would work by just putting 5 straight into the qualifiers.

Tailteann cup draw

Group 1  Kildare  Leitrim  Longford  Waterford

Group 2  Sligo Antrim Wexford Tipperary

Group 3 Fermanagh Laois Wicklow Carlow

Group 4 Down Offaly Limerick London

10 All Irelands in Group 4!!

9 all Irelands in group 2!!

It's a whole load of games to whittle the number of teams down from 16 to 12. And when the draw is made you will be able to predict the 4 teams who will be eliminated with a fair degree of certainty. The main interest will centre around which teams top their groups. 

That's true, because after last year, we all now realise what an advantage finishing top appears to be.

I said last year, if additional jeopardy is needed, we could have the four group winners and the best 2nd place team all progress directly to the quarters. The third place team with the worst record would be eliminated - that should mean little or no dead rubbers.

I'd also tweak it by giving the provincial winners and the 4 top league places (who weren't provincial winners) two home games and get rid of the neutral ground game - this would provide better incentives for provincial winners and league placings. It would also boost attendances as the neutral games last year were very poorly attended iirc.

Good idea that why not toss for a home venue in Semi Finals?!

On a related note, is the first time Celtic park has been used as a venue for a non-Derry championship game? I can't recall any other occasion anyway.

I dont think Mickey Harte will be too upset that Derry are out of the Ulster. They have the medals from the last 2 years in their pockets. Its all about SAM for them now. They get a nice 4 week break to get themselves ready. I would not be writing them off at all.

From a Derry perspective I don't think its a massive deal to give up an Ulster title if it means that they can regroup and prepare for a tilt at Sam Maguire. But Mickey Harte will definitely be disappointed on a personal level, after all he is there not for any great love of Derry but for personal achievement, the financial package and his legacy. They will be the team that every provincial winner will want to avoid in the group stages.

As for the Glass debate, watching the match on the TV doesn't actually do him justice in terms of performance. His positional play is second to none and he does a lot of off the ball work that is not the most glamorous to watch but is highly effective for his team. Plus he can play football when needed to as well. He is definitely not a moments player as someone suggested earlier, in fact anything but.     

Agree with that, the defensive work he does, covering ground and space is immense, a total team player, he does whatever he thinks will help the team achieve the results. Regularly sacrifices his own game for the good of the game.
Rodgers is an excellent footballer too, but brings something entirely different.
All that said, I'm sure both will admit, Saturday was neither's finest hour!

I dont think Mickey Harte will be too upset that Derry are out of the Ulster. They have the medals from the last 2 years in their pockets. Its all about SAM for them now. They get a nice 4 week break to get themselves ready. I would not be writing them off at all.

Will they definitely be playing in 4 weeks or could it be 5?

I believe they will be in Pot 3 so first game will be away to the Provincial winners in their group.
if its the Connacht or Munster winner then its the 18th-19th May ( so 4 weeks)
otherwise 25 May (so 5 weeks)

2nd Game on 1st or 2nd June
3rd Game on 15th or 16th June

So Kerry/Dublin/ or Mayo Galway.

If they get either Kerry or Dublin and get a similar 6 or 7 point defeat there will be major questions asked.

They'll want to be getting Mayo or Galway and start off with a signature win.

They could also end up with a trip to ballybofey (Omagh, Armagh or Newry), that might be the preference.
Second game at home to Clare and final game v meath in clones.
Presume draw will be made on Monday?

Not any lover of Tyrone, but it's very unfair a team having to play a big semi-final game just 6 days after a tight game. Def needs a 2 week breathing space between quarters and semi, plus a 2 week space to the qualifiers after the final for runners up

Absolutely. Scrap the group shite, 2 championships of 16 with a back door before the quarter finals or maybe just straight knockout be even better. Push the all ireland back to mid august.

Definitely not, the group stages are when this shadow boxing stops and the real championship begins.
I've seen various calls for provincial champions to go straight into quarter finals and other similar bollox, ludicrously, those calls have tended to be from Ulstermen. Can we not all see how that would simply reinforce the bullshit system we've had for nearly 150 years which sees kerry (and now Dublin too) advance directly to a quarter almost every year whilst the rest of us have to fight tooth and nail to get there?
For me, I'm really looking forward to groups, especially now that we all realise there is jeopardy, progressing is one thing, but progressing as group winners is a serious bonus Vs 2nd or 3rd. It's not perfect, but it's a massive step in the right direction.

How the hell is it a free out when 3 players are kneeing on you. Goldrick is a complete balloon

I'd go get your eyesight checked if I were you. The ref won it for you

He gave Cavan more time than they should have got at the end for them to try and get an equaliser.

He didn't even play enough time to cover the wasting at the last Morgan free lad...

From  when the free  was awarded to Morgan kicking  it  was roughly a minute. Ref played  about 45 seconds  over the 2 minutes , so  technically 15 seconds short.

But aren't players  allowed the 15 seconds to kick a free? So that evens it out

If the ref thought Morgan took too long then he would've cancelled the free, not added on 20 seconds at the end.

Refs rarely blow  for frees taking too long , especially  with goalkeepers coming  all the way up the field.

Countdown  clock like the ladies game , is badly badly needed

Put it in your submission to the playing rules review group. There's a 100 word free text bit at the end. Introduce a shot clock for frees or countdown clock as in ladies football

So no one knows the rules around adding time?

I genuinely have no idea. If you extra time is 10 minutes a half does that mean that when 2 mins extra time is played 7 would have been played had it been a 35 minute half?

So when are we going to get our answer MR2?

On another matter, there seems to be, a few new posters on here past few weeks. On the messages, I get the impression they been on here before or jumping between a few names.

On the matter at hand watching the goals again, first was terrible, second Lynch actually scored it, it was going wide, forth lying in a heap in midfield embarrassing stuff.

The 2nd wasn't going wide but he made a balls of it. Should have kept it out.

The thing that stood about thise goals was him seemingly jogging back.  Surely he should be anticipating these scenarios and be busting his balls to get back.

He's always done that, it's always been a source of great annoyance amongst us! Maybe the thinking is that busting a guy to get back will mean he's unable to make a save anyway?
I'd agree with whoever said he was targeted for the last kick out - he's been covering space and rarely targeted, there's a reason why he's not midfield for the county, makes sense to target him, you'd wonder why it took Jimmy coming back to think of it!
Well done again to Donegal and Jim, excellent result for them and a tactical masterclass. Let's hope that our sluggishness was related to training or something and we'll get a prime draw with Kerry up in Celtic park in 6 weeks time - that'll tell us where we are!!

Don't think Derry too worried about winning Ulster again.

However, the blueprint has been set by Jimmy.

It's the manner of the defeat. Absolutely obliterated by McGuinness.

Getting beat is no harm, my preference would have been a loss on penalties. But we were worryingly outmanoeuvred today.
Donegal had done their homework and exploited the opportunities, we failed to react and adapt.
I'd disagree with screen on our attacking play, imo we lacked any cutting edge today, our speed and incisiveness was non-existent, very few line breaks, we didn't/couldn't carry the ball at pace. Our normal game plan just wasn't there. Barely won a breaking ball either.

The rest should do us good and the seeding is largely irrelevant as has been discussed ad nauseum. Better to have 4 weeks off than 2 more games where you could still end up as a losing provincial finalist, meaning you cannot draw the Munster or Leinster finalists, who will be the weakest teams in the competition.

Oh, and to those questioning Glass and all that nonsense, go to a game and watch what he does, he's everywhere, covering space, organising team mates, providing an outlet. Phenomenal athlete with an incredible football brain on him.

Derry going with the same team as the league final.

No real surprise didn't think they'd risk McKinless from the start and he's a great impact sub.

No Murphy on the bench??

Can changes be made to the 26? Harte normally names his subs in alphabetical order. Doherty is out of place & Murphy would fit in at 25 alphabetically.

Yeah I think you name 4 lads in reserve who don't appear on programme but can come in last minute.

Is that right? I thought that no changes could be made to the 26? The whole team naming gaa culture is a nonsense with these multiple changes come throw-in, but I thought that at least it had been agreed no changes could be made outside the 26 named.

2 time penalty Kick champs, Fact. Vinny Corey had the decency to acknowledge it after Monaghan beat Armagh. Derry got the cups* tho.

It wasn't penalties they beat Donegal on though?

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming he meant last year's Ulster and this years NFL, maybe I'm being generous in my interpretation?

[Ulster U20 Football quarter-final results:]

Ulster U20 Football quarter-final results:

Derry 1-11 Cavan 0-7
Monaghan 1-15 Armagh 0-13

Semi-finals on 24 April 7:30pm:

Tyrone v Monaghan in Omagh
Donegal v Derry in Ballybofey

Final on 1 May.

They could nearly have played the Derry v Donegal game on Saturday in Celtic park, be like the old days when underage players used to get a proper taste of championship crowds!