Top 8 teams in the country

[Syferus]

Impediments to winning an All Ireland SFC
Population - Fermanagh Cavan Monaghan Sligo Laythrum Ros Longford Westmeath Offaly* Laois* Carlow -11
* hurley stuff also.
Armagh and Derry borderline cases. -2
Hurley stuff - Wexford Kilkenny Waterford Tipp Limerick Clare - 6.
Other - Antrim disorganised and no tradition, Louth soccer, Kildare horses and lost tradition of winning, Wicklow just about everything - 4.

So the All Ireland SFC is down to 9 - Donegal Tyrone Down
Galway Mayowestros
Cork Kerry
Dublin Meath.

Those 9 have 32 All Ireland Final appearances between them this Century. Armagh being the interlopers twice.
Mind you Meath and Down with only 1 Final appearance each makes the club even more exclusive.

And Galway have been within an arse's roar of one since 2001.

Money has widened the gap to the point it's not bridgable by passion and talent alone anymore. With a properly centralised funding system for IC would come strong HQ oversight and expertise on financial management and coaching, akin somewhat to the provincial model in Irish Rugby.

That's what the people trying to pretend money isn't the root of the warped nature of our sport fail to realise - that money always needs good oversight to work effectively. No one has ever suggested the GAA just hand blank cheques to the non-monied counties. Straw men left right and centre on this one. It's no surprise the sport is in such a state.

[AFS]

Impediments to winning an All Ireland SFC
Population - Fermanagh Cavan Monaghan Sligo Laythrum Ros Longford Westmeath Offaly* Laois* Carlow -11
* hurley stuff also.
Armagh and Derry borderline cases. -2
Hurley stuff - Wexford Kilkenny Waterford Tipp Limerick Clare - 6.
Other - Antrim disorganised and no tradition, Louth soccer, Kildare horses and lost tradition of winning, Wicklow just about everything - 4.

So the All Ireland SFC is down to 9 - Donegal Tyrone Down
Galway Mayowestros
Cork Kerry
Dublin Meath.

Those 9 have 32 All Ireland Final appearances between them this Century. Armagh being the interlopers twice.
Mind you Meath and Down with only 1 Final appearance each makes the club even more exclusive.

The footballing populations of Down and Armagh would be very similar. By my reckoning, both counties currently have exactly the same number of football clubs. Armagh might have more 'small' clubs, though it's hard to say. Unionists make up a much higher proportion of Down's population.

[Lar Naparka]

That's not true. The GAA is the way it is because it's not a level playing field and never was. Money maybe increasing the gap between the top 3-6 and the rest but it isn't the main issue. For two thirds of the country they haven't had a golden age of any description in living memory.

Money and it's distribution is the biggest issue.

It's not Dinny. If it was then we'd have seen a far more equitable GAA in previous generations. Of course it's a big issue but Longford, Roscommon or Carlow would more easily close the gap with an extra 100,000 people rather than an extra €1 million. The GAA has always been unfair, financially, as much as anything else and money won't solve the imbalance.

I disagree in sport money is the single most important factor, it's why they have salary caps and wealth taxes in US and Australian sports. It's why the UK can dominate the Olympics ahead of countries like Russia and China with far bigger populations. The more money invested the greater the results.

I'd disagree with you both Dinny although it's a case of splitting very fine hairs.
Dublin has both and yet only became an unstoppable force when the county board devised a plan to put their resources to best use.
You need a sizeable population to supply the money needed but neither nor both will be enough without the presence of a structured organisational plan. Dublin was like the proverbial sleeping giant until 2010 when the most piss-poor Meath team of all time took them to them to the cleaners.
Then and only then did the county board sit down to devise a strategy for the future, the famous Blue Wave,  and the rest is well to us all.
Cork, Galway, Kildare, Limerick and Meath in that order are the next most heavily populated counties and none of them are anywhere near good enough to win an AI at present. Galway has twice the population of Mayo but are far less likely to go the whole year than their neighbours are.
In plain English, you need a cohesive, structured plan of campaign which needs a sizeable population to generate the income necessary to go places.

Lar, the footballing part of Galway would be close enough population wise to Mayo.

It is indeed but I imagine that a prospective sponsor would be prepared to pay more to advertise with Galway rather than Mayo-all things being equal of course. Right now, Mayo has a higher profile than the heron-chokers so that could skew the calculations somewhat. I'd say a sponsor will go by the size of the potential market when negotiating a deal and the Galway market is twice that of Mayo. Logistics are important also.
Dublin is a fairly tight geographical area and it would be most unusual for any player to live or work/study more than a half hour's journey away from the training ground. I very much doubt that all Galway players are so well set up but they should be thankful they don't play for Leitrim!
Things may have changed since I was last down there but back then, the county panel trained in Trim as it was roughly halfway between Leitrim and Dublin. Going on the basis that a good big 'un will always beat a good little 'un, I think population size is very important but not all that is needed to win an AI.

[Lar Naparka]

Impediments to winning an All Ireland SFC
Population - Fermanagh Cavan Monaghan Sligo Laythrum Ros Longford Westmeath Offaly* Laois* Carlow -11
* hurley stuff also.
Armagh and Derry borderline cases. -2
Hurley stuff - Wexford Kilkenny Waterford Tipp Limerick Clare - 6.
Other - Antrim disorganised and no tradition, Louth soccer, Kildare horses and lost tradition of winning, Wicklow just about everything - 4.

So the All Ireland SFC is down to 9 - Donegal Tyrone Down
Galway Mayowestros
Cork Kerry
Dublin Meath.

Those 9 have 32 All Ireland Final appearances between them this Century. Armagh being the interlopers twice.
Mind you Meath and Down with only 1 Final appearance each makes the club even more exclusive.

And Galway have been within an arse's roar of one since 2001.

Money has widened the gap to the point it's not bridgable by passion and talent alone anymore. With a properly centralised funding system for IC would come strong HQ oversight and expertise on financial management and coaching, akin somewhat to the provincial model in Irish Rugby.

That's what the people trying to pretend money isn't the root of the warped nature of our sport fail to realise - that money always needs good oversight to work effectively. No one has ever suggested the GAA just hand blank cheques to the non-monied counties. Straw men left right and centre on this one. It's no surprise the sport is in such a state.

Well put Syf. Let it never be said that I never agreed with you!

[Captain Scarlet]

Being from the commuter-belt (but not inside the pale) one huge problem that I see with the likes of Kildare, Meath and Wicklow that would have decent sized towns full of blow-ins is the lack of real engagement from the more urban clubs.
Now say what you want about more money for the counties and about Leinster GAA giving more coaches, but at the end of the day it costs nothing to get up of your hole and knock on the doors of the new estates in all these counties and get kids down to the pitch.
It is something very stark for a while in Kildare that the small, rural parts of the county are able to compete with much larger bases. That is the main issue in Kildare in my mind. A massive gap in engagement.

It's too easy to just blame the 'suits in Croke Park' when counties, clubs and GAA members need to do more. In many counties the ex-county players are simply not involved. I would have been part of the Kildare 98 generation and I really think Kildare missed the bloat in terms of harnessing those lads.
Kildare have Hawkfield training centre, their own gym and don't want for anything from the time they come into the development squads. The Dubs are blessed right now with serious talent and application.
Teams need to at least match the latter before we all complain about money. Christ in Leinster teams just lie down after ten minutes against them. Not even a decent hit and that has nothing to do with money.

Others have F all resources and I really look at the likes of Monaghan. They eek out everything they can from a small base and you don't hear them talking about cash. If the aforementioned commuter belt applied the idea that they need EVERY player from GoGames up they would be better served.

[Dinny Breen]

Being from the commuter-belt (but not inside the pale) one huge problem that I see with the likes of Kildare, Meath and Wicklow that would have decent sized towns full of blow-ins is the lack of real engagement from the more urban clubs.
Now say what you want about more money for the counties and about Leinster GAA giving more coaches, but at the end of the day it costs nothing to get up of your hole and knock on the doors of the new estates in all these counties and get kids down to the pitch.
It is something very stark for a while in Kildare that the small, rural parts of the county are able to compete with much larger bases. That is the main issue in Kildare in my mind. A massive gap in engagement.

It's too easy to just blame the 'suits in Croke Park' when counties, clubs and GAA members need to do more. In many counties the ex-county players are simply not involved. I would have been part of the Kildare 98 generation and I really think Kildare missed the bloat in terms of harnessing those lads.
Kildare have Hawkfield training centre, their own gym and don't want for anything from the time they come into the development squads. The Dubs are blessed right now with serious talent and application.
Teams need to at least match the latter before we all complain about money. Christ in Leinster teams just lie down after ten minutes against them. Not even a decent hit and that has nothing to do with money.

Others have F all resources and I really look at the likes of Monaghan. They eek out everything they can from a small base and you don't hear them talking about cash. If the aforementioned commuter belt applied the idea that they need EVERY player from GoGames up they would be better served.

That is all anecdotal have you any figures to back up participation levels in Kildare compared to Dublin. We know for a fact Dublin get disporpotionally more money than any other county. They have more paid coaches than any other county.  This idea of hard work is bollix I coach 50 u6s in my club where does that fit in with your anecdotal evidence.

[Captain Scarlet]

Apologies if this is boring other posters but the evidence is laid bare in the fact that since 2000 Celbridge are the only team from the highly-populated North of Kildare to win a SFC.
In that time rural clubs like Allenwood and Carbury reached finals because they eeked out everything from their resources. Thats my point here. Other clubs and in turn counties dont even get the best out of what they have.
I dont have figures but by sheer volune i take it that you accept that numbers playing in Dublin are higher so they will get more coaches.
Can anyone tell us what a breakdown coach:player ratio is? In any county for that matter.

What i have said and will continue to say is that Kildare and Meath missed the boat years ago when the good times rolled.
Right now the nursery systems are flat out in all the clubs so fair play on that.

[seafoid]

Apologies if this is boring other posters but the evidence is laid bare in the fact that since 2000 Celbridge are the only team from the highly-populated North of Kildare to win a SFC.
In that time rural clubs like Allenwood and Carbury reached finals because they eeked out everything from their resources. Thats my point here. Other clubs and in turn counties dont even get the best out of what they have.
I dont have figures but by sheer volune i take it that you accept that numbers playing in Dublin are higher so they will get more coaches.
Can anyone tell us what a breakdown coach:player ratio is? In any county for that matter.

What i have said and will continue to say is that Kildare and Meath missed the boat years ago when the good times rolled.
Right now the nursery systems are flat out in all the clubs so fair play on that.

I used to visit my aunt in Clane. It was a small village with one street in the 50s. Now it is a commuter town 20 miles from Dublin with nearly 7000 people., more than Westport. It wasn't planned.  Nothing was.They just built estates.  Ireland is hopeless at planning. The problem.is particularly acute in Leinster .

I remember waiting for the bus to Dublin years ago one morning  and marvelling at all the people driving slowly to work. It is a different lifestyle.
.

  I think the GAA has had a hard job converting the people in semi urban areas (although Clane did win a few county titles back in the 90s ). It is the same in Cork. Maybe it will develop over time. GAA is about culture and identity and you can't just switch it on in a place. There is nothing like a successful.underage team to get a bit of momentum.going. That's how Crossmaglen started. But it takes timè

If you drive in the direction of Edenderry you go through smaller villages which are not plugged into suburban Dublin and presumably more GAA stylè.

[Dinny Breen]

Apologies if this is boring other posters but the evidence is laid bare in the fact that since 2000 Celbridge are the only team from the highly-populated North of Kildare to win a SFC.
In that time rural clubs like Allenwood and Carbury reached finals because they eeked out everything from their resources. Thats my point here. Other clubs and in turn counties dont even get the best out of what they have.
I dont have figures but by sheer volune i take it that you accept that numbers playing in Dublin are higher so they will get more coaches.
Can anyone tell us what a breakdown coach:player ratio is? In any county for that matter.

What i have said and will continue to say is that Kildare and Meath missed the boat years ago when the good times rolled.
Right now the nursery systems are flat out in all the clubs so fair play on that.

Maynooth Celbridge and Leixlip have won a grand total of 2 Kildare SFC in almost 300 years between them but let's blame the volunteers for not maximising the population at their disposal for not working hard enough. Seafoid nailed culture as you can see with Dublin/Kerry or to keep it at a Kildare level Sarsfields/Moorefield. By the way Kildare have won 3 of the last 4 Leinster minor championships are they not the direct product of the 97/00 football hysteria that engulfed Kildare? 

[seafoid]

Meath is similar . It's not about population

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meath_Senior_Football_Championship#Roll_of_honour

[Donnellys Hollow]

Apologies if this is boring other posters but the evidence is laid bare in the fact that since 2000 Celbridge are the only team from the highly-populated North of Kildare to win a SFC.
In that time rural clubs like Allenwood and Carbury reached finals because they eeked out everything from their resources. Thats my point here. Other clubs and in turn counties dont even get the best out of what they have.
I dont have figures but by sheer volune i take it that you accept that numbers playing in Dublin are higher so they will get more coaches.
Can anyone tell us what a breakdown coach:player ratio is? In any county for that matter.

What i have said and will continue to say is that Kildare and Meath missed the boat years ago when the good times rolled.
Right now the nursery systems are flat out in all the clubs so fair play on that.

Maynooth Celbridge and Leixlip have won a grand total of 2 Kildare SFC in almost 300 years between them but let's blame the volunteers for not maximising the population at their disposal for not working hard enough. Seafoid nailed culture as you can see with Dublin/Kerry or to keep it at a Kildare level Sarsfields/Moorefield. By the way Kildare have won 3 of the last 4 Leinster minor championships are they not the direct product of the 97/00 football hysteria that engulfed Kildare?

It will be interesting to see if Naas can replicate their current underage success at senior level over the next decade. They're probably the biggest underachievers in Kildare football all things considered. They always had the numbers and a handful of good footballers but were never as tough as the Newbridge clubs with their tradition and their army influence. Leixlip won three or four county underage titles in a row around the turn of the millennium and never built on it.

[shark]

Apologies if this is boring other posters but the evidence is laid bare in the fact that since 2000 Celbridge are the only team from the highly-populated North of Kildare to win a SFC.
In that time rural clubs like Allenwood and Carbury reached finals because they eeked out everything from their resources. Thats my point here. Other clubs and in turn counties dont even get the best out of what they have.
I dont have figures but by sheer volune i take it that you accept that numbers playing in Dublin are higher so they will get more coaches.
Can anyone tell us what a breakdown coach:player ratio is? In any county for that matter.

What i have said and will continue to say is that Kildare and Meath missed the boat years ago when the good times rolled.
Right now the nursery systems are flat out in all the clubs so fair play on that.

Maynooth Celbridge and Leixlip have won a grand total of 2 Kildare SFC in almost 300 years between them but let's blame the volunteers for not maximising the population at their disposal for not working hard enough. Seafoid nailed culture as you can see with Dublin/Kerry or to keep it at a Kildare level Sarsfields/Moorefield. By the way Kildare have won 3 of the last 4 Leinster minor championships are they not the direct product of the 97/00 football hysteria that engulfed Kildare?

It will be interesting to see if Naas can replicate their current underage success at senior level over the next decade. They're probably the biggest underachievers in Kildare football all things considered. They always had the numbers and a handful of good footballers but were never as tough as the Newbridge clubs with their tradition and their army influence. Leixlip won three or four county underage titles in a row around the turn of the millennium and never built on it.

I asked the same questions regarding Naas to a good friend who is from one of the N'bridge clubs. He just said "No, there's something fundamentally wrong with them".
I put this to another friend who is a Naas man, and former Kildare footballer. He was equally as negative. Said they can't control their numbers underage, and that the football-hurling split in the club is causing serious problems, as all the young lads want to do both.

There is probably no other club (certainly in Leinster) who are underachieving to the same extent as Naas, given their resources. The only other 1 club town as large is Portlaoise, and they have been successful. I wonder if there was a second club in Naas would both clubs end up being stronger than the current club.

[Dinny Breen]

Good old K4, population of the Town is over 23k, no SFC since 1990 and it was the 30s before then. They are building but underage success is no guarantee of senior success. Always considered a bit soft compared to the country boys or the working class towns of Newbridge Kildare and Athy. In their defence they have had to compete with Naas Rugby Club and Naas CBS was hardly a nursery and a lot of kids go to Newbridge College Piper Hill and Colaiste Gaelscoil none exactly bastions of GAA excellence either. Throw in soccer clubs and all the other competing codes and pastimes, what other town in Ireland has 2 race courses. The next few years will tell the tale though. Kildare need them to step up.

[seafoid]

I wonder about Cork. In the last 3 years they have only beaten 4 teams  - Limerick,Clare, Longford and Sligo

[seafoid]

Apologies if this is boring other posters but the evidence is laid bare in the fact that since 2000 Celbridge are the only team from the highly-populated North of Kildare to win a SFC.
In that time rural clubs like Allenwood and Carbury reached finals because they eeked out everything from their resources. Thats my point here. Other clubs and in turn counties dont even get the best out of what they have.
I dont have figures but by sheer volune i take it that you accept that numbers playing in Dublin are higher so they will get more coaches.
Can anyone tell us what a breakdown coach:player ratio is? In any county for that matter.

What i have said and will continue to say is that Kildare and Meath missed the boat years ago when the good times rolled.
Right now the nursery systems are flat out in all the clubs so fair play on that.

Maynooth Celbridge and Leixlip have won a grand total of 2 Kildare SFC in almost 300 years between them but let's blame the volunteers for not maximising the population at their disposal for not working hard enough. Seafoid nailed culture as you can see with Dublin/Kerry or to keep it at a Kildare level Sarsfields/Moorefield. By the way Kildare have won 3 of the last 4 Leinster minor championships are they not the direct product of the 97/00 football hysteria that engulfed Kildare?

Here's a good culture quote, Dinny
https://www.facebook.com/irishtimessport/posts/1032969043450700


"I don't know if it is a thing that players in Galway let seep into their mind from things that are said. Maybe the general people in Galway might be a bit soft in that 'Aw, we'll go up and compete anyway. If we win we win, if we lose we lose.' Whereas you can see in Kilkenny, even talking to people, they want to win all the time. That's their mentality and that reflects in the players as well.