"GAA has sold out on its principles by opening Croke Park" - Ulster chairman

[Farrandeelin]

Just wondering, with all the rucking and mauling the rugby players do will the Croker Authorities complain about them trampling on the pitch? Fair play to Greenan, and fair play again.

[An Gaeilgoir]

I wonder why as a GAA "Family" why are we so insecure about our games and the position they hold in the Irish psyche. I am a gaa player and follower,but i also play soccer as well and for one i am proud that our stadium will be hosting these games. For anyone to say that soccer and rugby are going to take over becuase we allow a couple of games in Croke park is utter shit. I am excited to see these games been broadcast around the world and as a sporting organisation we should stand up and say this is part of who we are and we are proud of it. As for Grennan he is stuck in the dark ages, i dont look on soccer or rugby as "garrison" games thay are just games and people will make up their minds what they want to play. This debate reminds me of the time when Sky arrived on our televisions,it would be the end of R.T.E and our Irish identity some people claimed,but nothing has changed. It seems that there are factions of the G.A.A especially traditional republicans who like the church do not want change as their own power base will be undermined and there might not be as many trips to Dubai and Australia. Long live croker as the greatest stadium in these isles and lets be proud of it and show it off to the world. Politically and culturally this country is changing at a rapid pace and if we are still stuck in the dark ages with our thinking well then we will have reason to be afraid of soccer and rugby "taking over". This is a proud and confident Ireland we live in now and the old shit about dark outside forces taking over the poor auld G.A.A is only suiting vested interests who want to keep the status quo to suit themselves.

[corn02]

Totally agree with Greenan, just because his ways don't suit everyone does not mean he is wrong.

A man who has done plenty for the GAA in Ulster and I assume most on here are basing their opinions on the person as a result of newspaper interviews.

Also The Ulster Council does promote Hurling in Ulster and try to improve it e.g accepting Armagh into the Senior Championship. But if the interest is not there they can not perform miracles.

[An Gaeilgoir]

After the vote on rule 42 was taken there was a radio show, between 6-7 (sportsline?) where that Cork official was being interviewed and a guy from Wexford came on saying that soccer was definitely having an impact on the GAA in Wexford. And he was very much in favour of opening Corke Park. Maybe someone has the link for this?

So Mid-Louth is the opening of Croke Park going to change the situtation in Wexford, i doubt it. Surley this is an issue for the G.A.A in Wexford and other parts of the country affected to find out why kids are playing soccer instead of playing G.A.A. The G.A.A have no divine right to these kids and if thay target them in the way soccer has targeted them,that would be a start.I see there is some builder looking for a Wexford team in the Eircom league,has the G.A.A devised something to counteract this...i doubt it.But keeping croker closed wont stop the kids playing soccer.

An Gaeilgoir, you make the typical arguement that everything in Ireland should be streamline, no identity. Sure lets all forget everything that got us where we are and swing the gates open of every ground.

Here we go again,this debate is about Croke park only,so why drag this chestnut up again...for the record there are a lot of clubs who share pitches and facilities around the country.As i said earlier the insecurity of the G.A.A, your comment about our identity been lost...the G.A.A will never lose its identity in this country lets get real...and not one person on here who agrees with opening Croke park has mentioned forgetting everything,what ever it is...most likely the struggle against the English....
Mid Louth these are the same old arguments been trotted out and it makes the G.A.A look like it is stuck in the sixties with the catholic church. Ireland has changed,not always for the best,but if the G.A.A doesnt change with it,we will end up like the catholic church.

[muppet]

Aside from the usual vitriol and accusations of backwoodsmen and liberal bigots ( that's a new one on me surely it is an oxymoron? ) let's have a quick look at Mr. Grennan's argument.

" The Gaa has sold out on it's principles by opening Croke Park ". Fair enough allegation given the highly emotive issue at stake but how does Mr. Grennan elaborate on this position.

He goes on to say that the motion passed is not being adhered to. That is not established as a fact, it is merely a matter of opinion and he finds himself at odds with the opinions of those responsible for interpreting the motion.

"If I have nothing better to do, I might - it all depends on the day. I have no particular interest in rugby. People who don't see fit to play our national anthem at all times do nothing for me"

His lack of interest in rugby is of no consequence however the National Anthem statement is beyond absurd. Even allowing for the fact that the sentence was not exactly what he meant to say as spotted by AZOffaly it is still idiotic. Do Irish people have to play the National Anthem everytime it is perceived that they are representing their country or is it only in sport?

" People are beginning to see now that not only have we been sold a pup, we have been sold a whole litter. The motion (regarding opening Croke Park) as passed by 2005 Congress is not being adhered to. Work has not started on Lansdowne Road, yet, we're opening Croke Park for rugby and soccer ". The pup being of course that they won't bother developing it now that Croker is available.

" We're giving away our best asset to other people to generate money to either help pay their share of the Lansdowne Road redevelopment or promote their sports. " What Lansdowne Road development? Wasn't that the pup. As for promoting their own sports they don't need Gaa help as been pointed out by other posters, this deal will probably cost them money particularly if the fortunes of the soccer team continue in freefall. Croker could be very expensive with a small crowd. 

" I believe we should be promoting our games, not those of our rivals. By opening Croke Park, we're promoting their sports and raising finance for them to do so. The GAA will make money from opening Croke Park but rugby and soccer will make five times as much. There no point making a pound for yourself and five or six for the other fella. "

" Nobody in business is doing that so why are we " . This is complete rubbish. Venues are rented time and time again without the owners trying to put the tenants out of business or vice versa.

Then he changes tack completely and comes out with the following:

" It's just a question of where they're being played. Anybody who plays Gaelic Games should have a prospect of playing in Croke Park. At the moment they don't, yet we're allowing other sports in. If you play soccer for the 26 counties - not for Ireland because it's a partitionist situation - you'll get into Croke Park but not all GAA players can. We should be looking after our own first. "

This really makes me angry. The U-21 finals and Hogan Cup finals are no longer held in Croker. The Ros - Kerry replay wasn't held in Croker, why? Because it costs too much to open it. Grennan is completely misrepresenting this argument about the poor Gaa players not getting in because of rugby or soccer. All Gaa players don't play in Croker because the Gaa don't let them, end of story. He is right we should be looking after our own and those games should have been played in Croker, but is the fault of people like the Ulster Council chairman Michael Greenan, who is also a vice-president of the GAA and a member of the GAA's high-powered Management Committee that they aren't.

  "How many training sessions do All-Ireland final teams get in Croke Park? One if they're lucky and even then they are restricted in what they can do but the Irish rugby team has five sessions. Was that the motion we passed? They get five sessions and our own people get one and in many cases none at all. Where are we going? Are we being fair to our own? No, is the answer."

The Mayo County Board parted company with their most successful ever hurling manager amid rumours that he had too many training sessions. When the Mayo minor team lost the Connacht final last year it was considered amazing that they had no 'official' friendlies before their All-Ireland quarter final game with Kerry. More rumours. The IRFU and the FAI will pay handsomely for Croker. Whinging on one hand about the poor Gaa players not getting their chance while shafting them on the other hand just doesn't stand up as an argument.

" The net effect is that the Government is going to build a stadium for non-GAA sports. "

"They gave a few pounds to the GAA and both they and we were criticised for it. The Government are effectively building a stadium for the two biggest professional sporting organisations in the country and in the meantime the GAA has to accommodate them "

A few pounds? I'd love if Grennan gave me a few pounds like that. Actually can I have a few tickets as well?
By accepting the 'few pounds' the Gaa were left with nowhere to go.

I have tried hard to see what principles of the Gaa Grennan identified as being sold. If it is that Gaa players should have more access to Croker then he has a point but no-one is more responsible than people like himself, certainly not the IRFU or the FAI as he tries to argue.

Is is that the Gaa should be against the redevelopment of Lansdowne thereby scuppering the plans of a rival. While I'm sure that would be popular it will not happen. No government, court or EU body would allow it. Is it that now we are for the redevelopment of Lansdowne but as long as it suits us and we could play there even though we don't ever want to?

The only valid point is the one about promoting rival sports. We've had that out before on this site and while there is a real concern on this issue the two main sides will just have to agree to disagree about this. Only time will tell but personally I think the League of Ireland is a permanently lame duck while Rugby looks good only on the surface, Serge Blanco has exposed some serious problems with the foundations. However like the Gaa both will be around for a long time and we should get used to co-existing.

[An Gaeilgoir]

Im not going to get into a tit for tat with you mid-louth...but if soccer is no.1,which i did not say was never going to happen...why not use some of the millions that we are going to get from the opening of croker to counteract this. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

Michael Greenans mouth should be taped shut 

The man is  an embarrassment to  the Cavan GAA  community.

I thought that was the Cavan seniors! 

[behind the wire]

bit of calm there lads!!!

although i dont agree with the way mr geannan goes about his business most of the time (i.e. he comes across as arrogant and his behaviour at congress wasnt acceptable) he makes a very valid point here.

ok, financially its great for the gaa, but its not what was passed at congress. landsdowne is not being redeveloped and i doubt it if it ever will be.

from my own experience our own club has alot of competiton from soccer. but while we have our own field, changing rooms coaching structure etc, soccer clubs play on public pitches and firmly believe that it is the duty of the local authority to provide them with a pitch! on top of that we have had a player seriously injured while playing a bit of soccer over the winter, but now he cannot receive the medical treatment he requires because the soccer club is not insured.

i have no problem with lending any facilities to rugby as they, like the gaa, are hard working and have their own network of club grounds around the country. indeed the local rugby club has been more than helpful towards us on many occasions. it is soccer with which i have a problem with, pack of scroungers with no respect for anybody not to mention the behaviour of the 'fans'

[stephenite]

ok, financially its great for the gaa, but its not what was passed at congress. landsdowne is not being redeveloped and i doubt it if it ever will be.

What are your reasons for this doubt ?

[dublinfella]

ok, financially its great for the gaa, but its not what was passed at congress. landsdowne is not being redeveloped and i doubt it if it ever will be.

What are your reasons for this doubt ?

paranoia

[stephenite]

ok, financially its great for the gaa, but its not what was passed at congress. landsdowne is not being redeveloped and i doubt it if it ever will be.

What are your reasons for this doubt ?

paranoia

I'm sure he can speak for himself

[dublinfella]

ok, financially its great for the gaa, but its not what was passed at congress. landsdowne is not being redeveloped and i doubt it if it ever will be.

What are your reasons for this doubt ?

paranoia

I'm sure he can speak for himself

well this little soundbite accusing the IRFU of pulling a fast one on the GAA, Govt and their own membership has been around this site for a while. no-one has made any effort to justify it. i think in the interest if fair play, people either put up or shut up on this. its quite the allegation.


pp has been applied for, asbestos removal has begun. did people expect to blink and LR would just appear?

[AbbeySider]

Although controversial Mr. Grennan shoots from the hip, I admire that because he has raised the debate again.

At the end of the day the main problem and fear is that the FAI and the IRFU will see the opening up of Croke Park as a more triumphant occasion for them rather than it being a good gesture on the GAAs behalf.

Like it or lump it we are in competition with them for players. I have seen it at Bord nA nOg level for years where potentially great footballers have left GAA to pursue other sports.

The opening up of Croke Park has been in the favor of the FAI and IRFU because we have lost the one unique prize that separated us from them...
The chance to play in Croke Park, which now will be a more common and less unique thing. This inevitable will promote their games, whatever way you look at it. Hence they will be generating more money from this by using Croke Park than anticipated

The other main point that was raised is the fact that there is no official time line as to when the IRFU and FAI will no longer need to play in Croke Park. Its is a bizzare situation that no planning permission has been granted yet.

The GAA should now re-negotiate the terms... perhaps look for more money. And dis spell the doubts and worries people are having

[muppet]

At the end of the day the main problem and fear is that the FAI and the IRFU will see the opening up of Croke Park as a more triumphant occasion for them rather than it being a good gesture on the GAAs behalf.

Is that seriously the main problem? Though they come homeless and paying lots of money that they might not be grateful enough is the main problem? Imagine if they enjoy it, heaven forbid!

Like it or lump it we are in competition with them for players. I have seen it at Bord nA nOg level for years where potentially great footballers have left GAA to pursue other sports.

The O'Byrne cup today had 7,000 at it. Mayo v Sligo IT had 3,000 at it. That's the warm up competitions for the warm up competition. The paranoia is astonishing.

The Gaa has never been stronger and there are many reasons for that. The vision of those who went ahead with developing Croker in the first place. Allowing TV coverage of provincial games, then of all games. It seems hard to believe now but there were high ranking officials who said it would kill attendances. As long as the Gaa keeps moving forward and doesn't get stuck in some idealogical rut it will remain by far the premier sporting organisation in this country.

[AbbeySider]

I said:

I have seen it at Bord nA nOg level for years where potentially great footballers have left GAA to pursue other sports.

Muppet said:

The O'Byrne cup today had 7,000 at it. Mayo v Sligo IT had 3,000 at it. That's the warm up competitions for the warm up competition. The paranoia is astonishing.

Its not paranoia muppet. Im my early 20's. When I was U-10 we got to a Connaught Semi final community games and we had over 25 players on the panel. Today just two players are left from that whole panel that are playing either senior of junior for our club.

How can you say its paranoia when the reason for the dropout of players is because they went playing soccer?

The paranoia is astonishing? More like you ignorance. Dont try and tell me that im paranoid when im speaking from experience.