Roscommon v Armagh

Started by illdecide, July 02, 2018, 10:06:15 AM

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Rufus T Firefly

Quote from: tonto1888 on July 03, 2018, 10:35:10 PM
What's the point talking about players who aren't there, and what's more don't want to be?

It makes for some interesting discussion - that's all. I mentioned it in the context of where I see this side going this year. My sense / worry is that this match might be a step too far and we will miss out on the Super 8s. However I'd have been much more confident of getting a place there if we'd had a full pick. The fault that we don't - for whatever reason(s) - are all entirely internal issues.

Quote from: Tim's Hero on July 04, 2018, 08:21:05 AM
The point is Armagh supporters , (and I mean all Armagh supporters , not just the self proclaimed followers of Geezer who ridicule others who cannot stomach watching the current shambles ) deserve to know why there is such a huge drop off rate , and a huge number of players in the county who won't commit , same thing in Westmeath ,Down and Louth ,when players realised county boards had appointed managers not fit for purpose , all 3 gone 2 after only 1 year , in Armagh they have to listen to same old "it's not the managers fault , the players won't commit, give it more time , there is a good group of u'20 coming through"

I do commend the current squad for their commitment in sticking at it knowing Armagh should be at a higher level but would question whether their commitment is to Geezer or Armagh ? There seems to be an element in the group that hero worships the manager and are trotted out for interviews in IN with Crossan any time the pressure revs up.

All Armagh supporters should see the current trend towards super 8 , champions league format as an opportunity to get our house in order and become competitive on a consistent basis going forward, total root and branch review needed with those with vested interests being replaced to cease the cyclical nature of wasting talent for 10/15 years and then produce a team .

The current shambles!??! We have lost one meaningful game (league / championship) game this calendar year!!

I will say that the manner in which we played against Fermanagh in Enniskillen was alarming to say the least, and management did come in for a lot of warranted criticism. However equally, the manner in which the players responded to going down by four points in the closing minutes of a do or die game, playing up the hill in blazing heat, suggests to me an excellent team spirit and pride in the jersey.

You will find that "all Armagh supporters" includes "not just the self proclaimed followers of Geezer" but also those who will put the boot in Geezer, regardless of what happens on the pitch. They will choose therefore to put the blame on him for tactics, as per Enniskillen, but look elsewhere to give credit when a do-or-die spirit rescues a game from the fire (Clare last Saturday). 

If we were to win on Saturday, and thus make the last eight for the second year in a row, I don't think there would be many who could argue that we were maximizing our potential - even new members of this board with their own agendas.

seafoid

What about the football ?
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Erne Man

Alot went wrong for Armagh that night in Enniskillen, but for me the biggest issue for them was the absence of Rory Grugan. Any time I've seen him play he has been seriously impressive, and Armagh looked clueless in attack that night without him.
I give Armagh a decent chance in the game. Roscommon are no world beaters, and despite the Connacht final being the closest of the four provincial finalists, it can't hide how one sided the second half of that game was, with Galway in complete control.

Rufus T Firefly


seafoid

Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on July 04, 2018, 09:09:29 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2018, 08:53:11 AM
What about the football ?

Here you go.


Rufus, Leeds United and Armagh Geezers must be  a challenge at the moment
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Rufus T Firefly

Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2018, 09:11:00 AM
Rufus, Leeds United and Armagh Geezers must be  a challenge at the moment

They're always a challenge, young man!! And add to that, I've got an awful bad feeling about England and the World Cup, so I don't have my troubles to seek!!  ;D

smelmoth

Quote from: Tim's Hero on July 04, 2018, 08:21:05 AM
The point is Armagh supporters , (and I mean all Armagh supporters , not just the self proclaimed followers of Geezer who ridicule others who cannot stomach watching the current shambles ) deserve to know why there is such a huge drop off rate , and a huge number of players in the county who won't commit , same thing in Westmeath ,Down and Louth ,when players realised county boards had appointed managers not fit for purpose , all 3 gone 2 after only 1 year , in Armagh they have to listen to same old "it's not the managers fault , the players won't commit, give it more time , there is a good group of u'20 coming through"

I do commend the current squad for their commitment in sticking at it knowing Armagh should be at a higher level but would question whether their commitment is to Geezer or Armagh ? There seems to be an element in the group that hero worships the manager and are trotted out for interviews in IN with Crossan any time the pressure revs up.

All Armagh supporters should see the current trend towards super 8 , champions league format as an opportunity to get our house in order and become competitive on a consistent basis going forward, total root and branch review needed with those with vested interests being replaced to cease the cyclical nature of wasting talent for 10/15 years and then produce a team .

You want someone to bite so I'll bite.

Of course there be a full review. There should be one in every county and one that covers all counties.

Drop off rates are concerning. Issue is much wider than Armagh but if the drop off rate is higher in Armagh, or specific to a type of player, or age group, profession or stage of family life then that will come out in our review.

I strongly suspect that Armagh are not delivering on our full potential but what is that full potential? A bit of an unknown.

The review might start on Monday. I hope it's not for a while yet

smelmoth

Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on July 04, 2018, 08:51:41 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 03, 2018, 10:35:10 PM
What's the point talking about players who aren't there, and what's more don't want to be?

It makes for some interesting discussion - that's all. I mentioned it in the context of where I see this side going this year. My sense / worry is that this match might be a step too far and we will miss out on the Super 8s. However I'd have been much more confident of getting a place there if we'd had a full pick. The fault that we don't - for whatever reason(s) - are all entirely internal issues.

Quote from: Tim's Hero on July 04, 2018, 08:21:05 AM
The point is Armagh supporters , (and I mean all Armagh supporters , not just the self proclaimed followers of Geezer who ridicule others who cannot stomach watching the current shambles ) deserve to know why there is such a huge drop off rate , and a huge number of players in the county who won't commit , same thing in Westmeath ,Down and Louth ,when players realised county boards had appointed managers not fit for purpose , all 3 gone 2 after only 1 year , in Armagh they have to listen to same old "it's not the managers fault , the players won't commit, give it more time , there is a good group of u'20 coming through"

I do commend the current squad for their commitment in sticking at it knowing Armagh should be at a higher level but would question whether their commitment is to Geezer or Armagh ? There seems to be an element in the group that hero worships the manager and are trotted out for interviews in IN with Crossan any time the pressure revs up.

All Armagh supporters should see the current trend towards super 8 , champions league format as an opportunity to get our house in order and become competitive on a consistent basis going forward, total root and branch review needed with those with vested interests being replaced to cease the cyclical nature of wasting talent for 10/15 years and then produce a team .

The current shambles!??! We have lost one meaningful game (league / championship) game this calendar year!!

I will say that the manner in which we played against Fermanagh in Enniskillen was alarming to say the least, and management did come in for a lot of warranted criticism. However equally, the manner in which the players responded to going down by four points in the closing minutes of a do or die game, playing up the hill in blazing heat, suggests to me an excellent team spirit and pride in the jersey.

You will find that "all Armagh supporters" includes "not just the self proclaimed followers of Geezer" but also those who will put the boot in Geezer, regardless of what happens on the pitch. They will choose therefore to put the blame on him for tactics, as per Enniskillen, but look elsewhere to give credit when a do-or-die spirit rescues a game from the fire (Clare last Saturday). 

If we were to win on Saturday, and thus make the last eight for the second year in a row, I don't think there would be many who could argue that we were maximizing our potential - even new members of this board with their own agendas.

I would add that whilst we have only lost 1 game we have also really only beat 1 team of consequence (not convinced Fermanagh put their all into the league final). And that victory was a smash and grab.

We are not a team that is easy to analyse at the moment.

Roscommon are a step up. A victory would make that analysis more straight forward

APM

#83
This season is working out very like last years.  Should have been promoted last year - got promoted this year.  Disappointing first round in Ulster.  Built momentum against Div 2/3 opposition.  Round 4 qualifier against a team that was promoted from Division 2 - lets see what happens next.

I remember thinking last year before the Kildare game that we would be better off getting pipped by a point as my feeling was that a hammering in the QFs would do us no good at all.  Although that Saturday evening in Croke Park was fantastic for the supporters and certainly brought the players on, the Tyrone hammering was a bitter way to end the season and was possibly one of the reasons some of the players haven't committed.

At the start of this year, I couldn't see how we would get promotion given then number of missing players.  However some of the guys have really stepped up and that last 7 minutes against Clare will live long in the memory and for me, it seriously compensates for the Fermanagh debacle. 

I get the same feeling about this Roscommon match as Kildare last year.  If we can put up a good performance and are beaten, I wouldn't be too disappointed given the ties that await the winner in the Super 8s. If we win, well then we are there on merit and may we can take comfort that one of the games is in the Athletic Grounds. 

Edit:
I would just add that there is a trend emerging with this team, that we have a bit of a never say die attitude and finish quite strongly in most games.  Clare this year, Westmeath last year, Kildare last year, Longford 2018 league, Fermanagh 2018 league.  Also, you couldn't complain about the attacking brand of football we are playing where we are kicking the ball a lot. If we could keep the wide count down, had a bit more patience and were a bit better at controlling possession then I'd say there is good potential in this squad as some of the U20s get integrated in.  The extra championship games will help will all of this.

Rossfan

Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

laoislad

Probably the only time I've ever wanted Armagh to win a game...
When you think you're fucked you're only about 40% fucked.

Rudi

Quote from: laoislad on July 04, 2018, 12:44:35 PM
Probably the only time I've ever wanted Armagh to win a game...

Like the Rossies on here give a chit what you want.

Rossfan

Quote from: laoislad on July 04, 2018, 12:44:35 PM
Probably the only time I've ever wanted Armagh to win a game...
Sad little maneen.
Are you even remotely aware that your lot are playing this weekend?
Makes no odds as very few of ye will go as usual.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Tim’s Hero

[If we were to win on Saturday, and thus make the last eight for the second year in a row, I don't think there would be many who could argue that we were maximizing our potential - even new members of this board with their own agendas]


Sorry I didn't realise this discussion forum was not open to new members with thoughts that span beyond the next or previous game .


If you can tell me Armagh have progressed in any shape or form since McGeeney came on board with his 5 year plan you are deluded, to use the example of a 69 minute non performance followed by Complete Clare collapse is more evidence of delusion.


I have no agenda or axe to grind with anyone , but am fed up with apologists for mediocrity. I think the majority of Armagh people who attend club matches week in week out know Armagh as a county are nowhere near fulfilling their potential, yet some people on this board cannot see beyond results and ignore performances no matter how shocking , all I would like to see is all Armagh coming together to ensure structures are put in place to allow us compete at a high level cosistently by getting our best talent on the field at all age groups. I don't think our current management can achieve that as to lose 2 or 3 is unfortunate , to lose 10 or 12 and have another 10 or 12 that won't commit suggests serious mismanagement.



DuffleKing


The only thing I would take u up on at this point before seeing how the season finishes is the assertion that both O'Neills would be starters now if they were on board - that's lunacy.

The older lad is a lovely footballer when he has the ball but has real issues getting it and the younger lad has potential but a lot to do to be considered at this level. You mentioned going to club games week to week but the only thing that has shown me about the younger lad is that ability doesn't guarantee anything - you need temprement and work rate and he has demonstrated on a weekly basis that he has neither yet.