The same-sex marriage referendum debate

[easytiger95]

Hmmm, so the liberals are outnumbered 100,000 to 1 yet the referendum was passed with 62% voting in favour. Maths isn't your strong point.

As for that last bit - well they could ask a single parent for advice - many single fathers and mothers have been doing a great job raising children for years. If one parent can do it, the why wouldn't two be able to?

The referendum wasn't 60% of people voting in favour of gay marriage, I'd say most were protest voters against the church or whatever and rightly so, it's a sham of an institution, but if you think 60%+ people on this island, are liberal on matters of homosexuality you have your head in the clouds.  As for your other quip, yeah because the child will only need emotional support for a day until she has it explained and then she be grand!

Thanks for telling me why I and others voted for ssm - I was confused.

I am embarrassed for you now.

I pray that no daughter of yours ends up in that situation relying on you for guidance. Imagine if she had to ask her Daddy! I am certain that the gay Daddies would handle it a lot more sensitively than you.

Many here will know families who sadly lost their mother's early and managed very well. You of course couldn't comprehend anything like that.

Yeah because they have a normal family support group to rally around, who will rally around Paddy and Barry, Seamus and John?

I'd say Seamus and John, their parents and siblings (also known as grandparents, aunts and uncles), in short, their families.

Of course we all know families missing a father or a mother where they've managed well. But why on earth would you deliberately contrive to bring about such a situation?

We are not contriving to bring about such a situation

yeah right.

Any child with a mother and father in a healthy relationship will continue to have a mother and father. The vote doesn't change that. Pretending it does is disingenuous in the extreme.

Who is pretending that? it is disingenuous to pretend that people are pretending that. What you are proposing is new relationships with children without a mother or father.

Isn't it time to move on from the 'will someone think of the children' bullshit?

If you think the interests of children are bullshit, then I suppose it is.

The old thumb to the nose argument. I suppose I should be glad as it is a change from 'will someone think of the children'.

I would rather think of the children by constantly saying homophobic things

Fixed that for you.

[Maguire01]

Hmmm, so the liberals are outnumbered 100,000 to 1 yet the referendum was passed with 62% voting in favour. Maths isn't your strong point.

As for that last bit - well they could ask a single parent for advice - many single fathers and mothers have been doing a great job raising children for years. If one parent can do it, the why wouldn't two be able to?

The referendum wasn't 60% of people voting in favour of gay marriage, I'd say most were protest voters against the church or whatever and rightly so, it's a sham of an institution, but if you think 60%+ people on this island, are liberal on matters of homosexuality you have your head in the clouds.  As for your other quip, yeah because the child will only need emotional support for a day until she has it explained and then she be grand!

No, it was 62%.

[Rossfan]

And the only issue on the ballot was asking if you approved of amending an Bhunreacht to say that Marriage can be contracted by 2 people irrespective of their sex.
If people were protesting against Govt. or whatever they'd have voted NO.
Just accept the result topcuppla and get on with your life. You'll feel all the better for it.

[topcuppla]

I am embarrassed for you now.

I pray that no daughter of yours ends up in that situation relying on you for guidance. Imagine if she had to ask her Daddy! I am certain that the gay Daddies would handle it a lot more sensitively than you.

Many here will know families who sadly lost their mother's early and managed very well. You of course couldn't comprehend anything like that.

Yeah because they have a normal family support group to rally around, who will rally around Paddy and Barry, Seamus and John?

Wow! You can't comprehend that a gay couple might actually have 'a normal family support group to rally round'. You actually think that an all male couple could only have all male couple support groups.

And you get offended when you are called homophobic. 

How many same sex male couples do you, your family and friends socialize with?  How many gay men for that matter do you socialize with?

[topcuppla]

I'd say Seamus and John, their parents and siblings (also known as grandparents, aunts and uncles), in short, their families.

Do you not think for a young girl a mother would be a better source of comfort, direction and guidance as she grows than an auntie or a friend being dragged in for the odd piece of advise, cop yourself on.  I will repeat I think gays, should be able to married whom they like but two men have no right being able to adopt any child.

[topcuppla]

And the only issue on the ballot was asking if you approved of amending an Bhunreacht to say that Marriage can be contracted by 2 people irrespective of their sex.
If people were protesting against Govt. or whatever they'd have voted NO.
Just accept the result topcuppla and get on with your life. You'll feel all the better for it.

Stephen Fry said he would vote yes if he was Irish, I suppose that is the debate closed.

[muppet]

I am embarrassed for you now.

I pray that no daughter of yours ends up in that situation relying on you for guidance. Imagine if she had to ask her Daddy! I am certain that the gay Daddies would handle it a lot more sensitively than you.

Many here will know families who sadly lost their mother's early and managed very well. You of course couldn't comprehend anything like that.

Yeah because they have a normal family support group to rally around, who will rally around Paddy and Barry, Seamus and John?

Wow! You can't comprehend that a gay couple might actually have 'a normal family support group to rally round'. You actually think that an all male couple could only have all male couple support groups.

And you get offended when you are called homophobic. 

How many same sex male couples do you, your family and friends socialize with?  How many gay men for that matter do you socialize with?

Is this where you hope I say 'none', and then claim I can't possibly know that gay people have straight friends and family members?

I know lots of gay people. I can't think of any that I routinely socialise with, but I have noticed that gay people speak the same language as me and often are interested in similar things. Many, incredibly, even have brothers and sisters and some even have parents. But as I don't socialise with all of these, I can't confirm this.

[Maguire01]

I'd say Seamus and John, their parents and siblings (also known as grandparents, aunts and uncles), in short, their families.

Do you not think for a young girl a mother would be a better source of comfort, direction and guidance as she grows than an auntie or a friend being dragged in for the odd piece of advise, cop yourself on.  I will repeat I think gays, should be able to married whom they like but two men have no right being able to adopt any child.

Well actually they do, and did have before the referendum. If one man can raise a child, why not two?

[easytiger95]

I'd say Seamus and John, their parents and siblings (also known as grandparents, aunts and uncles), in short, their families.

Do you not think for a young girl a mother would be a better source of comfort, direction and guidance as she grows than an auntie or a friend being dragged in for the odd piece of advise, cop yourself on.  I will repeat I think gays, should be able to married whom they like but two men have no right being able to adopt any child.

What I actually think is that you are either an idiot or a troll, and like all examples of the latter, don't care who you hurt to get your thrills. If it is the former, you are dumber than dirt and twice as ignorant.

[The Iceman]

So the jury is out on whether or not you are born gay. Some interesting theories and results posted in this blog/article:
http://www.trueorigin.org/gaygene01.php

I tried finding a news source that would be deemed more credible but given the sensitivity of the subject I wonder which of them would ever publish it.

From a scientific lens, what struck me was the twin study. Identical twins have identical DNA. From that if one twin was gay and you were born gay (part of your genetic makeup) then the other twin should be gay, But that was only the case in less than 15% of the twins studied.

I think it ties into some of the questions AZ asked about lesbians who are attracted to masculine lesbians. I spoke about this over the weekend and my wife recalled an episode of America's next top model where one of the models was openly gay but said it was a choice as she was repulsed by men because of childhood abuse...  all interesting.

Again, I'm not sure what I believe on it yet. But surely adds to the conversation - at least where it is now...

[Eamonnca1]

I stopped reading that page at "Exposing the myth of evolution."

[The Iceman]

I stopped reading that page at "Exposing the myth of evolution."

Eamonn I already apologized for the source  - can you not skip over the parts that irk you to get to the content or would you prefer I cut and paste for your convenience...?

[muppet]

So the jury is out on whether or not you are born gay. Some interesting theories and results posted in this blog/article:
http://www.trueorigin.org/gaygene01.php

I tried finding a news source that would be deemed more credible but given the sensitivity of the subject I wonder which of them would ever publish it.

From a scientific lens, what struck me was the twin study. Identical twins have identical DNA. From that if one twin was gay and you were born gay (part of your genetic makeup) then the other twin should be gay, But that was only the case in less than 15% of the twins studied.

I think it ties into some of the questions AZ asked about lesbians who are attracted to masculine lesbians. I spoke about this over the weekend and my wife recalled an episode of America's next top model where one of the models was openly gay but said it was a choice as she was repulsed by men because of childhood abuse...  all interesting.

Again, I'm not sure what I believe on it yet. But surely adds to the conversation - at least where it is now...

That seems like a very odd assumption to make to me. Our DNA is over 99% identical to all of the history of mankind as it is. In fact we share 98.4% of our DNA with Chimpanzees. Why do identical twins run the 100m in different times? If they are genetically identical then surely they should evolve identically?

Also, I am not certain that they can be absolutely certain that even identical twins have 100% identical DNA. Mutations occur with DNA reproduction and we still don't test every single part of DNA. So how can anyone be certain small mutations don't occur?

[omaghjoe]

So the jury is out on whether or not you are born gay. Some interesting theories and results posted in this blog/article:
http://www.trueorigin.org/gaygene01.php

I tried finding a news source that would be deemed more credible but given the sensitivity of the subject I wonder which of them would ever publish it.

From a scientific lens, what struck me was the twin study. Identical twins have identical DNA. From that if one twin was gay and you were born gay (part of your genetic makeup) then the other twin should be gay, But that was only the case in less than 15% of the twins studied.

I think it ties into some of the questions AZ asked about lesbians who are attracted to masculine lesbians. I spoke about this over the weekend and my wife recalled an episode of America's next top model where one of the models was openly gay but said it was a choice as she was repulsed by men because of childhood abuse...  all interesting.

Again, I'm not sure what I believe on it yet. But surely adds to the conversation - at least where it is now...

That may be true Iceman but they have separate genetics, which is actually is what is passed on through generations. So I feel the twin comparison is a bit of a red herring in this article especially when they had already discussed genetics. A good comparison might be left and right handedness in twins?

Bit of a head melter the old DNA, gentics, and chromosomes don't fully understand them myself


But you raise an interesting point about homosexuality and its scientific origins, it does appear to be a bit of a hot potato for the scientific community with no prominent theroy offered from them which looks strange at best considering they offer a theory on almost everything else. It would appear that using current scientific logic of evolution, survival etc homosexuality is difficult to rationalise.

The weird thing is tho that using theology, "we are the way God made us", "we have a soul", "love thy neighbour" etc. Homosexuality is much more acceptable thru this lens. Which I believe is the lens most people in Western society (theist, atheist and agnostic) actually use to rationalise homosexuality. 

[topcuppla]

I am embarrassed for you now.

I pray that no daughter of yours ends up in that situation relying on you for guidance. Imagine if she had to ask her Daddy! I am certain that the gay Daddies would handle it a lot more sensitively than you.

Many here will know families who sadly lost their mother's early and managed very well. You of course couldn't comprehend anything like that.

Yeah because they have a normal family support group to rally around, who will rally around Paddy and Barry, Seamus and John?

Wow! You can't comprehend that a gay couple might actually have 'a normal family support group to rally round'. You actually think that an all male couple could only have all male couple support groups.

And you get offended when you are called homophobic. 

How many same sex male couples do you, your family and friends socialize with?  How many gay men for that matter do you socialize with?

Is this where you hope I say 'none', and then claim I can't possibly know that gay people have straight friends and family members?

I know lots of gay people. I can't think of any that I routinely socialise with, but I have noticed that gay people speak the same language as me and often are interested in similar things. Many, incredibly, even have brothers and sisters and some even have parents. But as I don't socialise with all of these, I can't confirm this.

Well I didn't see that coming!!!  So you don't know any gay male married couples, but you know all about them - don't figure!