The same-sex marriage referendum debate

[topcuppla]

So is the way democracy works, if a No vote is passed there will there be another referendum this year to get it passed?

[armaghniac]

I'm not trying to get you to do anything - you do it to yourself as Radiohead would say. It was you who said that children from same sex couples would be excluded from enjoying the full human experience because of their parents. Own your words, Armaghniac. Blood bonds are of course, hugely important, but they are only one way that families are now organised and as has been made clear, abundantly now, that was a debate to be had before the passing of the Children and Family relationship act. You also dismiss the evidence on none side of the debate without producng any evidence on the impact that you say same sex marriage will have on children or even being able to articulate any of the disadvantages it will bring to heterosexual marriages, though you have clearly stated it will.

The Children and Family Relationship Act is concerned with regulating things after event and protecting children in all situations, some of them less than optimal. As you yourself say, the benefits of marriage come into operation from day 1. Marriage is intended to bring men and women together, most of these have children but some do not for individual reasons. The existence of some marriages with these individual reasons are no justification for extending marriage to sterile combinations which are unable to produce children from the relationship regardless of what the individuals do or think.

As for the evidence, the proposed change dilutes marriage which means that it will have less status and less public support in the future which does very much affect children. If this change proceeds than there can be no reason other than prejudice for opposing polygamous marriages and there is no valid reason for taxing single people more to allow married people pay less.

[foxcommander]

So is the way democracy works, if a No vote is passed there will there be another referendum this year to get it passed?

Worked for the Lisbon and Nice treaties.

[easytiger95]

As you yourself say, the benefits of marriage come into operation from day 1. Marriage is intended to bring men and women together, most of these have children but some do not for individual reasons. The existence of some marriages with these individual reasons are no justification for extending marriage to sterile combinations which are unable to produce children from the relationship regardless of what the individuals do or think.

Nor is it any reason not to.

As for the evidence, the proposed change dilutes marriage which means that it will have less status and less public support in the future which does very much affect children. If this change proceeds than there can be no reason other than prejudice for opposing polygamous marriages and there is no valid reason for taxing single people more to allow married people pay less.

Dilutes how? Answer the question we've asked of you since the beginning of this. "Dilute" means nothing. What are your concrete examples of this "dilution" which is a metaphor in itself?

What reason would there be for promoting polygamous marriage? Has the existence of civil partnerships for same sex couples led to the promotion of polygamous civil partnerships? Careful Armaghniac, your next example will be "sure what will stop them marrying dogs?"

If this change proceeds, the vaild reason for taxing single people more to allow married people to pay less, is that they are married. Gay or straight, childless or not, the state will value and put a premium on marriage as an essential tool for social cohesion.

[easytiger95]

Also, just to say, calling gay partnerships sterile combinations completely ignores that fact that same sex partnerships can have children, through adoption, or other fertility treatments.

[Oraisteach]

You ask, Eamonn asks, just about everyone else asks, so I will too.  What is being taken from everyone else!

[deiseach]

You ask, Eamonn asks, just about everyone else asks, so I will too.  What is being taken from everyone else!

Groupthink!

[foxcommander]

I predict 65 - 35 yes.

I still haven't found out what rights we will be giving gay couples mind you. Either I'm thick, or this is like the third secret of Fatima.

If no-one knows exactly what this referendum is for maybe the government will use the confusion to add one of their wishes in the smallprint.

Vote 'YES' on referendum day for equality [and for Irish Water to directly debit your wages/welfare]/[You agree to microchipping]


Wouldn't put it past them.

[Maguire01]

So is the way democracy works, if a No vote is passed there will there be another referendum this year to get it passed?

I doubt it would be this year, but it probably would be run again at some point. And why not? The electorate changes and opinion changes. To argue against another referendum is like arguing against another General Election - sure the people voted in 2011, let's just leave it at that!

[topcuppla]

So is the way democracy works, if a No vote is passed there will there be another referendum this year to get it passed?

I doubt it would be this year, but it probably would be run again at some point. And why not? The electorate changes and opinion changes. To argue against another referendum is like arguing against another General Election - sure the people voted in 2011, let's just leave it at that!

So is the way democracy works, if a Yes vote is passed there will there be another referendum this year?

[deiseach]

One of the upsides of this referendum is the amount of thought we've all had to do about what constitutes family and the ties that bind us. Win or lose, I think it has been healthy for the nation's pysche.

I thought of what you say here yesterday after reading an article from the Washington Post about the case before the US Supreme Court regarding gay marriage. What struck me was the absurdity of having the validity of laws determined by nine people parsing a text written by a bunch of slave-owning white men from the late 18th century. As you say, whatever the result there is virtue in having a public airing of opinions on the matter.

[topcuppla]

One of the upsides of this referendum is the amount of thought we've all had to do about what constitutes family and the ties that bind us. Win or lose, I think it has been healthy for the nation's pysche.

I thought of what you say here yesterday after reading an article from the Washington Post about the case before the US Supreme Court regarding gay marriage. What struck me was the absurdity of having the validity of laws determined by nine people parsing a text written by a bunch of slave-owning white men from the late 18th century. As you say, whatever the result there is virtue in having a public airing of opinions on the matter.

The irony of these posts are unreal, you can air your opinion as long as you are on the YES side, on the NO side you are homophobic, Jesus wept!

[deiseach]

One of the upsides of this referendum is the amount of thought we've all had to do about what constitutes family and the ties that bind us. Win or lose, I think it has been healthy for the nation's pysche.

I thought of what you say here yesterday after reading an article from the Washington Post about the case before the US Supreme Court regarding gay marriage. What struck me was the absurdity of having the validity of laws determined by nine people parsing a text written by a bunch of slave-owning white men from the late 18th century. As you say, whatever the result there is virtue in having a public airing of opinions on the matter.

The irony of these posts are unreal, you can air your opinion as long as you are on the YES side, on the NO side you are homophobic, Jesus wept!

I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I do not think advocating a No vote makes you a homophobe. I think it takes a particularly twisted mindset to read the contrary into what I posted.

[armaghniac]

One of the upsides of this referendum is the amount of thought we've all had to do about what constitutes family and the ties that bind us. Win or lose, I think it has been healthy for the nation's pysche.

I thought of what you say here yesterday after reading an article from the Washington Post about the case before the US Supreme Court regarding gay marriage. What struck me was the absurdity of having the validity of laws determined by nine people parsing a text written by a bunch of slave-owning white men from the late 18th century. As you say, whatever the result there is virtue in having a public airing of opinions on the matter.

While conditioned by the circumstances of the time, I suspect the bunch of slave-owning white men from the late 18th century took their duties seriously. The same cannot be said of the "leaders", the Kennys, Gilmores and the like, of today.

[topcuppla]

One of the upsides of this referendum is the amount of thought we've all had to do about what constitutes family and the ties that bind us. Win or lose, I think it has been healthy for the nation's pysche.

I thought of what you say here yesterday after reading an article from the Washington Post about the case before the US Supreme Court regarding gay marriage. What struck me was the absurdity of having the validity of laws determined by nine people parsing a text written by a bunch of slave-owning white men from the late 18th century. As you say, whatever the result there is virtue in having a public airing of opinions on the matter.

The irony of these posts are unreal, you can air your opinion as long as you are on the YES side, on the NO side you are homophobic, Jesus wept!

I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I do not think advocating a No vote makes you a homophobe. I think it takes a particularly twisted mindset to read the contrary into what I posted.

Not on this board - time and time again it has been stated here that the only reason one can vote NO is because they are homophobic, appreciate you are not one of the protagonists but you can appreciate the the irony in the above posts in the context of the mass hysteria from the YES campaign on this board.