The same-sex marriage referendum debate

[tonto1888]

To sum up,I believe the earth was ultimately God's creation.Science increasingly explains how but not why.Some things are simply beyond logic and human understanding.

I like billions of others believe a man died on a cross and then rose from the dead,something no other man or woman has done,and is therefore for me proof of God's existence.

Everyday proof is provided by miracle cures defying all expert medical opinion,ability of priests only to perform exorcisms etc.

when was the last time a priest performed an exorcism

[heganboy]

It might not therefore be a huge stretch to believe that the God that you believe in, who sent his son to die so that others may live eternal life with him, that told his followers to love one another, who is often characterized as the God of love.  It might not be a stretch to say that God may approve of two of his followers finding some of that love on this Earth he created. And maybe, just maybe that two humans finding love might actually be a sign that they are following your God's teachings very closely.  Celebrating that acceptance of love in their hearts and committing to each other that love in the same fashion as other followers in their local area with a religious ceremony may just may be a sign that they are followers of those teachings.
And surely encouraging and supporting fellow believers would also be following the over arching tenets of the belief system ? And that perhaps you, as a very fallible human telling other followers which of the followers practices are unacceptable in the eyes (wait he has eyes?) of God and his son might actually be contrary to those very teachings.

I am more than ever aware that my understanding of the universe and of life itself is sorely limited. I do not understand how those Christians who believe in a God of Love can resolve how they hold so much anger that their fellow human beings would want to get married  and at the same time have that sit well with rest of the teachings they follow.

A wedding in Jewish law (not tradition, law) is a very simple thing, gift is given and accepted, words of acquisition and consecration are said. And Voila- married. Ani L'Dodi V'Dodi Li.
I Belong to My Beloved and My Beloved Belongs to Me.

How hard can it be to allow yourself to say that my God might be ok with this, and maybe I should be too?

[Hardy]

It might not therefore be a huge stretch to believe that the God that you believe in, who sent his son to die so that others may live eternal life with him, that told his followers to love one another, who is often characterized as the God of love.  It might not be a stretch to say that God may approve of two of his followers finding some of that love on this Earth he created. And maybe, just maybe that two humans finding love might actually be a sign that they are following your God's teachings very closely.  Celebrating that acceptance of love in their hearts and committing to each other that love in the same fashion as other followers in their local area with a religious ceremony may just may be a sign that they are followers of those teachings.
And surely encouraging and supporting fellow believers would also be following the over arching tenets of the belief system ? And that perhaps you, as a very fallible human telling other followers which of the followers practices are unacceptable in the eyes (wait he has eyes?) of God and his son might actually be contrary to those very teachings.

I am more than ever aware that my understanding of the universe and of life itself is sorely limited. I do not understand how those Christians who believe in a God of Love can resolve how they hold so much anger that their fellow human beings would want to get married  and at the same time have that sit well with rest of the teachings they follow.

A wedding in Jewish law (not tradition, law) is a very simple thing, gift is given and accepted, words of acquisition and consecration are said. And Voila- married. Ani L'Dodi V'Dodi Li.
I Belong to My Beloved and My Beloved Belongs to Me.

How hard can it be to allow yourself to say that my God might be ok with this, and maybe I should be too?

A good post for Christmas, heganboy.

[Hardy]

To sum up,I believe the earth was ultimately God's creation.Science increasingly explains how but not why.Some things are simply beyond logic and human understanding.

I like billions of others believe a man died on a cross and then rose from the dead,something no other man or woman has done,and is therefore for me proof of God's existence.

Everyday proof is provided by miracle cures defying all expert medical opinion,ability of priests only to perform exorcisms etc.

when was the last time a priest performed an exorcism

I have a friend we call The Exorcist. Every time he comes to the house all the spirits disappear.

[T Fearon]

It is not hard to understand that sin is punishable and mortal sin unatoned for will lead to eternal damnation.God is not a happy clappy God of unconditional love.Jesus died for sinners not for the righteous.

[playwiththewind1st]

Talking out yer arse should qualify for eternal damnation.

[heganboy]

It is not hard to understand that sin is punishable and mortal sin unatoned for will lead to eternal damnation.God is not a happy clappy God of unconditional love.Jesus died for sinners not for the righteous.

I beg to differ.
I think that the concept is ridiculously difficult to understand.
Starting with your concepts of sin, mortal sin, atonement, punishment and eternal damnation. Not a simple concept among them, and more so, the absolutism of your unquestioning belief in your naive and uneducated interpretation is stunning.

Adding to this your conviction of your concept not only the nature of God, but your interpretation of the mood of the infinite being, and the your insight into why his son temporarily died is breathtaking in it's arrogance.

That's not faith, that is radical fundamentalism. Your unwillingness to discuss in anything other than absolutes or engage in any dialogue other than saying "it's not hard to understand" or "if not then why" or "it stands to sense" is not a great reflection on your faith or humanity.

And of all the threads in that post, that you chose sin and punishment as the one to respond to is a pretty damning insight.

[tonto1888]

It is not hard to understand that sin is punishable and mortal sin unatoned for will lead to eternal damnation.God is not a happy clappy God of unconditional love.Jesus died for sinners not for the righteous.

And who/what defines a sin

[T Fearon]

Right.Simple question.Do you think Ian Brady,Brendan Smyth,Jimmy Savile etc are in heaven.

I believe in Catholic Church Catechism which is scripture based.This decrees that judgement follows physical death and the destination of hell for those who have committed mortal sin and not repented.This concept of end of life judgement is shared by all protestant churches too.

I see no point in Jesus' mission on earth even from a common sense perspective other than to get people to believe in God and repent.If we are all heaven bound regardless what was the point of Jesus being on earth?

[Rossfan]

Did Jesus ever say that homosexual sex was a Sin?

[T Fearon]

Scripture makes it clear it is.God also made Adam for Eve not Adam for Steve

[T Fearon]

https://www.tms.edu/preachersandpreaching/jesus-never-address-homosexuality/

[balladmaker]

Scripture makes it clear it is.God also made Adam for Eve not Adam for Steve

You could be confusing religion for reality ... who are you, or I, to dictate what love means to another person, based on a man-written script or book.  We've simply no right to do so.

[heganboy]

Tony, you are trying to have a primary school level debate by assuming parameters which are in no way agreed to by the other party.
To which scripture do you selectively adhere, and which are you now declaring infallible? On what basis?
Let's be clear that you have no idea what Jesus did on Earth, and even less clue as to his motives or mission. The fact that you continue to push hard the fact that there could be no other reason for something  that (may or may not have) happened 2000 odd years ago other than your given explanation is absolutist fundamentalism.

Repent? You are now at the Evangelical model, and not the model of the Catholic Church to which you claim adherence.
Why do you think an infinite being needs people to believe in him? Self validation? Vanity? Stock price?

And your last comment is puerile at best.
There no exclusivity in there.

And by the way your catechism allows for an either or interpretation, which side do you favor?

.   For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own" (Humani Generis 37).   

[Rossfan]

Scripture makes it clear it is.God also made Adam for Eve not Adam for Steve

Does it?
Anywhere in the New Testament which for Christians  supercedes anything in the Old one.