Scottish independence referendum thread

Started by deiseach, September 07, 2014, 11:36:16 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

If you have/had a vote, how will/would you vote?

Yes
122 (87.8%)
No
17 (12.2%)

Total Members Voted: 139

Voting closed: September 18, 2014, 11:36:16 AM

keep her low this half

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2022, 11:10:18 AM
In 2014 the SNP platform was based on £x bn in revenues from North Sea oil. This is no longer relevant. So they would have a deficit of 10% of GDP or £1765 per person.
They have to fix this.

https://www.ft.com/content/ff6c0f6b-2d65-4a4e-bbba-878e2260cf3e
The FT's estimate that Scotland's deficit would be almost 10 per cent of GDP means that the size of the tax increases or spending cuts needed to bring public borrowing down to manageable levels has doubled compared with the tight expenditure limits proposed by an SNP economic commission in 2018. At the time of the 2014 plebiscite, the SNP said there was no need for any deficit reduction because the country could rely on North Sea oil revenues. Scotland's now much weaker fiscal position would present a newly independent nation with a difficult set of choices. It could impose many years of spending restraint or higher taxes — or bet that financial markets would be willing to lend at very low interest rates to a new sovereign borrower with a large and persistent deficit.

I neither trust or believe one word about the financial failures of NI Scotland or the English regions. The whole UK tax set-up is designed to make the south east of London look like a financial superpower while everywhere else is a bunch of beggars on the dole. I will give you a real world example, a few years ago I worked for a bakery in Belfast. The mill that ground the flour was also in Belfast. So Flour was ground, bread was made and bread was sold in Belfast at the local Tesco. However the profit for all three operations was recorded as having been made at company headquarters in London where profit was taken and tax applied.
A further example, Scotch whiskey being exported to America sails from Liverpool docks and the tax take on it is when it is exported is classed as English.
Scotland has North Sea Oil and gas, currently well over $100 per barrel. It has lots of renewable energy and fresh water (something England is badly lacking).
Will Scotland have to be smart and work hard to prosper? Yes
But no more so than Denmark, Sweden, Ireland or Holland.
Without the financial drag of London sucking money and investment out of Scotland the scots will be just fine.

Rossfan

Independence is normal.
How many former British ruled Countries have revoked their Independence and gone back under Westminster Rule?
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

tiempo

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2022, 11:10:18 AM
In 2014 the SNP platform was based on £x bn in revenues from North Sea oil. This is no longer relevant. So they would have a deficit of 10% of GDP or £1765 per person.
They have to fix this.

https://www.ft.com/content/ff6c0f6b-2d65-4a4e-bbba-878e2260cf3e
The FT's estimate that Scotland's deficit would be almost 10 per cent of GDP means that the size of the tax increases or spending cuts needed to bring public borrowing down to manageable levels has doubled compared with the tight expenditure limits proposed by an SNP economic commission in 2018. At the time of the 2014 plebiscite, the SNP said there was no need for any deficit reduction because the country could rely on North Sea oil revenues. Scotland's now much weaker fiscal position would present a newly independent nation with a difficult set of choices. It could impose many years of spending restraint or higher taxes — or bet that financial markets would be willing to lend at very low interest rates to a new sovereign borrower with a large and persistent deficit.

Genuine question, if I've picked up your point correctly, why would North Sea oil revenue's be no longer relevant?

armaghniac

#783
Quote from: keep her low this half on June 29, 2022, 11:23:47 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2022, 11:10:18 AM
In 2014 the SNP platform was based on £x bn in revenues from North Sea oil. This is no longer relevant. So they would have a deficit of 10% of GDP or £1765 per person.
They have to fix this.

https://www.ft.com/content/ff6c0f6b-2d65-4a4e-bbba-878e2260cf3e
The FT's estimate that Scotland's deficit would be almost 10 per cent of GDP means that the size of the tax increases or spending cuts needed to bring public borrowing down to manageable levels has doubled compared with the tight expenditure limits proposed by an SNP economic commission in 2018. At the time of the 2014 plebiscite, the SNP said there was no need for any deficit reduction because the country could rely on North Sea oil revenues. Scotland's now much weaker fiscal position would present a newly independent nation with a difficult set of choices. It could impose many years of spending restraint or higher taxes — or bet that financial markets would be willing to lend at very low interest rates to a new sovereign borrower with a large and persistent deficit.

I neither trust or believe one word about the financial failures of NI Scotland or the English regions. The whole UK tax set-up is designed to make the south east of London look like a financial superpower while everywhere else is a bunch of beggars on the dole. I will give you a real world example, a few years ago I worked for a bakery in Belfast. The mill that ground the flour was also in Belfast. So Flour was ground, bread was made and bread was sold in Belfast at the local Tesco. However the profit for all three operations was recorded as having been made at company headquarters in London where profit was taken and tax applied.
A further example, Scotch whiskey being exported to America sails from Liverpool docks and the tax take on it is when it is exported is classed as English.

One point is that the Protocol makes some of this more visible and might lead to more accurate statistics.


Quote
Will Scotland have to be smart and work hard to prosper? Yes
But no more so than Denmark, Sweden, Ireland or Holland.
Without the financial drag of London sucking money and investment out of Scotland the scots will be just fine.

Notably all of these neighbours are richer than Scotland, as are Germany and Iceland as well.
I have no doubt that Scotland would do better in the longer term, the problem is how to get out.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Bord na Mona man

Quote from: keep her low this half on June 29, 2022, 11:23:47 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2022, 11:10:18 AM
In 2014 the SNP platform was based on £x bn in revenues from North Sea oil. This is no longer relevant. So they would have a deficit of 10% of GDP or £1765 per person.
They have to fix this.

https://www.ft.com/content/ff6c0f6b-2d65-4a4e-bbba-878e2260cf3e
The FT's estimate that Scotland's deficit would be almost 10 per cent of GDP means that the size of the tax increases or spending cuts needed to bring public borrowing down to manageable levels has doubled compared with the tight expenditure limits proposed by an SNP economic commission in 2018. At the time of the 2014 plebiscite, the SNP said there was no need for any deficit reduction because the country could rely on North Sea oil revenues. Scotland's now much weaker fiscal position would present a newly independent nation with a difficult set of choices. It could impose many years of spending restraint or higher taxes — or bet that financial markets would be willing to lend at very low interest rates to a new sovereign borrower with a large and persistent deficit.

I neither trust or believe one word about the financial failures of NI Scotland or the English regions. The whole UK tax set-up is designed to make the south east of London look like a financial superpower while everywhere else is a bunch of beggars on the dole. I will give you a real world example, a few years ago I worked for a bakery in Belfast. The mill that ground the flour was also in Belfast. So Flour was ground, bread was made and bread was sold in Belfast at the local Tesco. However the profit for all three operations was recorded as having been made at company headquarters in London where profit was taken and tax applied.
A further example, Scotch whiskey being exported to America sails from Liverpool docks and the tax take on it is when it is exported is classed as English.
Scotland has North Sea Oil and gas, currently well over $100 per barrel. It has lots of renewable energy and fresh water (something England is badly lacking).
Will Scotland have to be smart and work hard to prosper? Yes
But no more so than Denmark, Sweden, Ireland or Holland.
Without the financial drag of London sucking money and investment out of Scotland the scots will be just fine.
A good example of how London has gaslighted Scotland into thinking they are being subsidised and couldn't prosper alone.
We're subsidising you...but please don't leave us!

Unfortunately the best swing vote winner for Scottish Independence may not be residing in No 10 by the time any referendum comes along.

blasmere

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on June 29, 2022, 11:53:06 AM
Quote from: keep her low this half on June 29, 2022, 11:23:47 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2022, 11:10:18 AM
In 2014 the SNP platform was based on £x bn in revenues from North Sea oil. This is no longer relevant. So they would have a deficit of 10% of GDP or £1765 per person.
They have to fix this.

https://www.ft.com/content/ff6c0f6b-2d65-4a4e-bbba-878e2260cf3e
The FT's estimate that Scotland's deficit would be almost 10 per cent of GDP means that the size of the tax increases or spending cuts needed to bring public borrowing down to manageable levels has doubled compared with the tight expenditure limits proposed by an SNP economic commission in 2018. At the time of the 2014 plebiscite, the SNP said there was no need for any deficit reduction because the country could rely on North Sea oil revenues. Scotland's now much weaker fiscal position would present a newly independent nation with a difficult set of choices. It could impose many years of spending restraint or higher taxes — or bet that financial markets would be willing to lend at very low interest rates to a new sovereign borrower with a large and persistent deficit.

I neither trust or believe one word about the financial failures of NI Scotland or the English regions. The whole UK tax set-up is designed to make the south east of London look like a financial superpower while everywhere else is a bunch of beggars on the dole. I will give you a real world example, a few years ago I worked for a bakery in Belfast. The mill that ground the flour was also in Belfast. So Flour was ground, bread was made and bread was sold in Belfast at the local Tesco. However the profit for all three operations was recorded as having been made at company headquarters in London where profit was taken and tax applied.
A further example, Scotch whiskey being exported to America sails from Liverpool docks and the tax take on it is when it is exported is classed as English.
Scotland has North Sea Oil and gas, currently well over $100 per barrel. It has lots of renewable energy and fresh water (something England is badly lacking).
Will Scotland have to be smart and work hard to prosper? Yes
But no more so than Denmark, Sweden, Ireland or Holland.
Without the financial drag of London sucking money and investment out of Scotland the scots will be just fine.
A good example of how London has gaslighted Scotland into thinking they are being subsidised and couldn't prosper alone.
We're subsidising you...but please don't leave us!

Unfortunately the best swing vote winner for Scottish Independence may not be residing in No 10 by the time any referendum comes along.

I genuinely think Boris would have to be caught on camera shooting someone before he goes, talking of a third term last week. He'll try and rig elections if he can. The only shame about the Scottish thing is the English (& they're not all bad) are consigned to Torydom forever more.
A sure cure for seasickness is to sit under a tree

Main Street

Could /would rejoining the EU be a part of the  independence platform?
That is the biggest unpopular social/economic change since the last referendum.

Armagh18

Quote from: Main Street on June 29, 2022, 03:12:09 PM
Could /would rejoining the EU be a part of the  independence platform?
That is the biggest unpopular social/economic change since the last referendum.
It'll be one of the main factors I reckon. Expect the EU to really back Scotland here to stick the boot into the Brits/England over Brexit.

tiempo

Quote from: Armagh18 on June 29, 2022, 03:16:52 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 29, 2022, 03:12:09 PM
Could /would rejoining the EU be a part of the  independence platform?
That is the biggest unpopular social/economic change since the last referendum.
It'll be one of the main factors I reckon. Expect the EU to really back Scotland here to stick the boot into the Brits/England over Brexit.

100%

Fully expect the EU to act in good faith to Ireland/Scotland while letting England shit on its own face from here on in

The Tories and little Englanders don't really grasp just how much they're despised across the globe for British colonialism, they're gonna find out soon enough

seafoid

Quote from: tiempo on June 29, 2022, 11:38:26 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2022, 11:10:18 AM
In 2014 the SNP platform was based on £x bn in revenues from North Sea oil. This is no longer relevant. So they would have a deficit of 10% of GDP or £1765 per person.
They have to fix this.

https://www.ft.com/content/ff6c0f6b-2d65-4a4e-bbba-878e2260cf3e
The FT's estimate that Scotland's deficit would be almost 10 per cent of GDP means that the size of the tax increases or spending cuts needed to bring public borrowing down to manageable levels has doubled compared with the tight expenditure limits proposed by an SNP economic commission in 2018. At the time of the 2014 plebiscite, the SNP said there was no need for any deficit reduction because the country could rely on North Sea oil revenues. Scotland's now much weaker fiscal position would present a newly independent nation with a difficult set of choices. It could impose many years of spending restraint or higher taxes — or bet that financial markets would be willing to lend at very low interest rates to a new sovereign borrower with a large and persistent deficit.

Genuine question, if I've picked up your point correctly, why would North Sea oil revenue's be no longer relevant?
I think they collapsed
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Jeepers Creepers

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2022, 03:39:33 PM
Quote from: tiempo on June 29, 2022, 11:38:26 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2022, 11:10:18 AM
In 2014 the SNP platform was based on £x bn in revenues from North Sea oil. This is no longer relevant. So they would have a deficit of 10% of GDP or £1765 per person.
They have to fix this.

https://www.ft.com/content/ff6c0f6b-2d65-4a4e-bbba-878e2260cf3e
The FT's estimate that Scotland's deficit would be almost 10 per cent of GDP means that the size of the tax increases or spending cuts needed to bring public borrowing down to manageable levels has doubled compared with the tight expenditure limits proposed by an SNP economic commission in 2018. At the time of the 2014 plebiscite, the SNP said there was no need for any deficit reduction because the country could rely on North Sea oil revenues. Scotland's now much weaker fiscal position would present a newly independent nation with a difficult set of choices. It could impose many years of spending restraint or higher taxes — or bet that financial markets would be willing to lend at very low interest rates to a new sovereign borrower with a large and persistent deficit.

Genuine question, if I've picked up your point correctly, why would North Sea oil revenue's be no longer relevant?
I think they collapsed

All UK oil fields in the North sea are privately owned (open to correction)

tiempo

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2022, 03:39:33 PM
Quote from: tiempo on June 29, 2022, 11:38:26 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2022, 11:10:18 AM
In 2014 the SNP platform was based on £x bn in revenues from North Sea oil. This is no longer relevant. So they would have a deficit of 10% of GDP or £1765 per person.
They have to fix this.

https://www.ft.com/content/ff6c0f6b-2d65-4a4e-bbba-878e2260cf3e
The FT's estimate that Scotland's deficit would be almost 10 per cent of GDP means that the size of the tax increases or spending cuts needed to bring public borrowing down to manageable levels has doubled compared with the tight expenditure limits proposed by an SNP economic commission in 2018. At the time of the 2014 plebiscite, the SNP said there was no need for any deficit reduction because the country could rely on North Sea oil revenues. Scotland's now much weaker fiscal position would present a newly independent nation with a difficult set of choices. It could impose many years of spending restraint or higher taxes — or bet that financial markets would be willing to lend at very low interest rates to a new sovereign borrower with a large and persistent deficit.

Genuine question, if I've picked up your point correctly, why would North Sea oil revenue's be no longer relevant?
I think they collapsed

I think not, could be wrong

seafoid

Quote from: tiempo on June 29, 2022, 03:52:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2022, 03:39:33 PM
Quote from: tiempo on June 29, 2022, 11:38:26 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2022, 11:10:18 AM
In 2014 the SNP platform was based on £x bn in revenues from North Sea oil. This is no longer relevant. So they would have a deficit of 10% of GDP or £1765 per person.
They have to fix this.

https://www.ft.com/content/ff6c0f6b-2d65-4a4e-bbba-878e2260cf3e
The FT's estimate that Scotland's deficit would be almost 10 per cent of GDP means that the size of the tax increases or spending cuts needed to bring public borrowing down to manageable levels has doubled compared with the tight expenditure limits proposed by an SNP economic commission in 2018. At the time of the 2014 plebiscite, the SNP said there was no need for any deficit reduction because the country could rely on North Sea oil revenues. Scotland's now much weaker fiscal position would present a newly independent nation with a difficult set of choices. It could impose many years of spending restraint or higher taxes — or bet that financial markets would be willing to lend at very low interest rates to a new sovereign borrower with a large and persistent deficit.

Genuine question, if I've picked up your point correctly, why would North Sea oil revenue's be no longer relevant?
I think they collapsed

I think not, could be wrong
https://www.scotfact.com/OilandGasComparison#:~:text=Scotland%27s%20geographic%20share%20of%20Oil%20and%20Gas%20revenue,Petroleum%20Revenue%20Tax%20Rebates%20disproportionally%20affecting%20non-Scottish%20production.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Milltown Row2

I predict the same result as last time, when it comes to the crunch those that say they will, will happily stay with their English handlers
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

imtommygunn

Boris Johnson wasn't in charge last time. Dangerous man who anyone in their right mind needs to get away from.

However I still would be surprised if it goes through. Bold move by sturgeon. Johnson best thing for could have happened for Scottish independence and Irish unity.