The SDLP

Started by ardmhachaabu, April 23, 2010, 09:32:25 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Snapchap

#1410
Quote from: Rois on June 12, 2023, 11:19:49 AM
I guess what I'm saying is could you not just make a gesture that would be a huge PR win for SF for something as inconsequential as this. 

SF have done a lot right recently, but probably do have to work twice as hard at it, given where they have come from.  John Finucane's speech (whatever about the content) has not gone down well.
No harm to you Rois but that is absolute nonsense that just feeds into the unionist sense of entitlement. Doesn't it say so much about the SDLP and their supporters that, in a scenario where SF (by their own choice) have re-committed to operateing D'Hondt in order to share power fairly and democratically in councils they control, while unionists do not; that their gut instinct is to complain that it's SF who aren't being fair? You are just 100% echoing the bizarre remarks of Danny Kennedy when he complained that SF were being unfair by winning so many votes and having so many of their candidates elected.


Quote from: Rois on June 12, 2023, 11:19:49 AM
John Finucane's speech (whatever about the content) has not gone down well.
Hasn't gone down well? Among who? Among people who either attend or else just say absolutely nothing about commemorations for deceased RUC/British soldiers multiple times a year? It sounds like you, just like trailer, have just been sucked in by the political game playing of unionism/elements of the media in the past week. Maybe you can tell me why there was no such controversy when Finucane spoke at an IRA commemoration at Easter? Why was it all of a sudden only an issue this week? Did you criticise him at Easter? If not, why not?

You say his speech didn't go down well. Did you hear it? Did any of those complaining about it all week hear it? Or, if you're being honest, did it just not "go down well" because, regardless of what he said or didn't say, he just had the temerity to refuse to allow anyone tell him republicans shouldn't be allowed to remember our dead?

Milltown Row2

Snapchap, you are using a sledgehammer to crack a nut at times, win the PR battle, no one will care in 30 years if a UI is created, the ground work is to make the unionist/loyalist gang have the bad PR while the Nationalist/Republican can get the good PR..

Own goals or whatever will be jumped on at every opportunity, and yes the cry will be so what they remember theirs and so on. But this will be the reason that SF can't be the face of the border poll, a totally independent grouping needs to be at the forefront of that campaign otherwise it will never happen in your lifetime
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

marty34

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 12, 2023, 10:04:02 AM
Quote from: Rois on June 12, 2023, 10:00:42 AM
Quote from: keep her low this half on June 12, 2023, 09:54:52 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 12, 2023, 07:35:13 AM
https://twitter.com/columeastwood/status/1667984392071913475

This is mad stuff from Colm. It's on a par with Danny Kennedys anti-democratic ramblings a few weeks ago. Unionists won't have a mayor in Derry for the next 4 years because they did not get enough seats to warrant one under the D'Hondt system, not because those pesky Shinners are up to their tricks.
I honestly almost put this in the WTF thread.

I find it amazing how this is such an issue for the local media when unionists are lacking representation in Derry or Fermanagh but is never an issue when nationalists are lacking representation in Ards and North Down or in Mid and East Antrim. Usual double standards from the usual suspects.
Can you not just aspire to be better?  Do you have to match the lower standards?

Normally I would agree but being good mannered and courteous hasn't exactly got nationalism anywhere. Sure they can't even accept a nationalist FM!

Yeah, I agree. They had their day.


Rois

Quote from: Snapchap on June 12, 2023, 11:47:43 AM
No harm to you Rois but that is absolute nonsense that just feeds into the unionist sense of entitlement.
Jeez snapchat, calm down.

I specifically said nothing about the content of John Finucane's speech - I heard bits of it on the radio this morning, but  I don't care what he said, quite frankly - that wasn't my point.  SF have to be whiter than white to win people over. 

I am a member of forum that is mainly GB people who know very little about what's happening here, but who are connected parties in the Unity debate.  When someone described that an MP was attending an event arranged to "commemorate the IRA", well you can imagine some comments.  And you, or more specifically John Finucane, may very well hold the power in a moral argument, but who cares? 

Look at the goodwill SF have created recently with the tone of the local election campaign, the attendance at the coronation of Charlie etc.  All good, magnanimous stuff, helping show that a future with SF at the helm can be accommodating for all. 

If it is more important to you to feel that you're right, and keep arguing why you are (d'Hondt etc), then you may forget about convincing the non-nationalist middle ground in a border poll.  The low hanging fruit is there, but if you're unwilling to take it, then how can we convince the undecided? 

Snapchap

#1414
Quote from: Rois on June 12, 2023, 12:37:18 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 12, 2023, 11:47:43 AM
No harm to you Rois but that is absolute nonsense that just feeds into the unionist sense of entitlement.
Jeez snapchat, calm down.

I specifically said nothing about the content of John Finucane's speech - I heard bits of it on the radio this morning, but  I don't care what he said, quite frankly - that wasn't my point.  SF have to be whiter than white to win people over. 

I am a member of forum that is mainly GB people who know very little about what's happening here, but who are connected parties in the Unity debate.  When someone described that an MP was attending an event arranged to "commemorate the IRA", well you can imagine some comments.  And you, or more specifically John Finucane, may very well hold the power in a moral argument, but who cares? 

Look at the goodwill SF have created recently with the tone of the local election campaign, the attendance at the coronation of Charlie etc.  All good, magnanimous stuff, helping show that a future with SF at the helm can be accommodating for all. 

If it is more important to you to feel that you're right, and keep arguing why you are (d'Hondt etc), then you may forget about convincing the non-nationalist middle ground in a border poll.  The low hanging fruit is there, but if you're unwilling to take it, then how can we convince the undecided?

Rois, you've criticised SF for "not showing goodwill" despite the fact that they operate d'hondt voluntarily, and are now trying to suggest that even that isn't good enough to win over the middle ground, and that they should be showing "goodwill" by handing democratically elected gains over to unionism. No harm to you, but that's just Danny Kennedy levels of nonsense.

And as far as commemorations go, the "non-nationalist middle ground" had precisely no issue/comment/complaint about John Finucane commemorating the IRA as recently as Easter. A stink has only been kicked up now. So maybe you ought to ask yourself why that is the case, and why you've found yourself falling for this week's DUP/BBC led outrage campaign but had nothing to say at Easter.
SF made significant gains from the middle ground just a matter of weeks after John Finucane spoke at an Easter Commemoration, and people rightly just let him/republicans get on with it in peace. Nobody ran screaming offence to the radio and newspapers. The commemorations went ahead and there wasn't a word about it. People got on with their lives. Don't you think there's a lesson in that? So perhaps instead of bashing SF/Finucane for having a dignified commemoration for their dead, would it not be more useful to call on unionism to drop the cynical/hypocritical outrage campaign, to stop flaming tensions, and to state it loudly that everyone ought to be entitled to remember their dead in peace? Isn't that more beneficial than selectively condemning some commemorations?

RedHand88

BREAKING: Sinn Féin elected representative attends IRA commemoration....

I don't think middle grounders care that Finucane went to an IRA commemoration. The outrage is reserved for the usual suspects.

Rois

Quote from: Snapchap on June 12, 2023, 01:03:16 PM
Rois, you've criticised SF for "not showing goodwill" despite the fact that they operate d'hondt voluntarily, and are now trying to suggest that even that isn't good enough to win over the middle ground, and that they should be showing "goodwill" by handing democratically elected gains over to unionism. No harm to you, but that's just Danny Kennedy levels of nonsense.


Are you attributing that quote to me?  Don't think I said that - stand to be corrected.  If you're turning what I said about them recently creating goodwill with gestures around to make it suit your rant, then jeez, you're going out of your way to pick an argument.

   


Snapchap

Quote from: Rois on June 12, 2023, 01:52:52 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on June 12, 2023, 01:03:16 PM
Rois, you've criticised SF for "not showing goodwill" despite the fact that they operate d'hondt voluntarily, and are now trying to suggest that even that isn't good enough to win over the middle ground, and that they should be showing "goodwill" by handing democratically elected gains over to unionism. No harm to you, but that's just Danny Kennedy levels of nonsense.


Are you attributing that quote to me?  Don't think I said that - stand to be corrected.  If you're turning what I said about them recently creating goodwill with gestures around to make it suit your rant, then jeez, you're going out of your way to pick an argument.


Rant? I'm trying to engage in a debate. You don't seem too happy to engage in one though.

You referred to Colm Eastwood's suggestion that SF just gift democratically won gains to unionism as a "gesture" that SF should consider. So I was paraphrasing you, since I assumed you mean "showing goodwill" but the word "gesture". But let's not be pedantic.

How about engage in the discussion. I've asked this a few times (and I asked Trailer too, and he also is avoiding answering), but I'll try again:

1. Why did nobody, yourself included, get upset when Finucane commemorated IRA Volunteers at Easter? What's different this time?

and

2. Since it's human nature to remember the dead, wouldn't it be more mature to take the approach that you and others took at Easter, and just let people have their space to commemorate their dead in peace, that do engage in/facilitate/fall for the selective outrage for certain commemorations?

Rois

You keep trying to compare me to Danny Kennedy. I'm really busy with work and wish I hadn't opened my internet mouth
.
1. I didn't know (or care - still don't) that John Finucane was at an IRA commemoration event previously. When I voted for John Finucane in north Belfast when he became an MP (by the way, I voted for him), I didn't care either.  Nor do I know if it was reported on as widely in the media. I'll assume that it wasn't. Seems to me that there is no difference. Has the media influenced it? Sounds like it, and you should def pursue that. My comment was that it hasn't gone down well with certain sections of people. And like it or not, it is very easy for those who won't consider that SF is evolving beyond the IRA to quickly go back there. Would you deny that? Sinn Fein have to work twice as hard on their image as any other party IF they want to be at the forefront of the united ireland initiative. You can't just take extreme offence when people challenge you, whether that's on a selective basis or not.

2. Oh it absolutely would be better to let people do what they want to do in peace. How is that achieved?

And ok - hands up - all of your posts, both directly and indirectly, have accused me of naivety, bordering on stupidity around the media's influence. Yep, guilty. The problem for SF is, there's an awful lot of me out there. What will you do about it?