Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

Started by Joxer, October 06, 2010, 02:42:28 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Tony Baloney

Quote from: imtommygunn on September 14, 2024, 10:15:14 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on September 14, 2024, 02:39:54 PM
Quote from: Truthsayer on September 14, 2024, 02:31:18 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 14, 2024, 02:19:05 PM
Quote from: Truthsayer on September 14, 2024, 02:15:20 PMWhat odds about the Euros? A decent GAA stadium is needed at Casement Park. The British government is never to be trusted. If we don't know that by now...
GAA is an All Ireland organisation: this €13 billion needs to be allocated and distributed... obviously housing/poverty a priority but GAA should be getting funds towards Casement Park from it too. It's a lot of money.

Oasis and ACDC money needs to be distributed. How much more hand-out do the GAA need for a vanity project?
You'll find that the GAA has for decades made, and continues to make, a great contribution to Irish community life than any other organisation in the country including the Catholic Church. It is a decent GAA stadium is needed not a 'vanity project' (today's buzzword) for Gaelic Games in Ulster.

It's not todays buzzword, many of us said it from day one

Yeah I never was sure about it at all. Been a disaster from day one and I still wonder who made ludicrous promises etc at the start to mushroom it to the mess it has become.

Get antrim the stadium back and get a respectable county ground built then move on from this debacle.
Various numpties in Ulster Council presumably.

armaghniac

Quote from: God14 on September 14, 2024, 04:52:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 14, 2024, 12:24:52 PMAgain, tidy they place up, pull the stand down, get the grass cut and get it opened

100%

Phase 1, as above. Immediately

Phase 2, state of the art main stand on one side of the pitch. Terracing renewed on remainder of ground. 2027/2028

Phase 3, covered terrace opposite side of the pitch. 2029/2030


It seems that the old stand side is rather "thin", and it would be more appropriate to build on the other side. Did they acquire any extra land?

MAGA Make Armagh Great Again

From the Bunker

Quote from: Truthsayer on September 14, 2024, 02:31:18 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 14, 2024, 02:19:05 PM
Quote from: Truthsayer on September 14, 2024, 02:15:20 PMWhat odds about the Euros? A decent GAA stadium is needed at Casement Park. The British government is never to be trusted. If we don't know that by now...
GAA is an All Ireland organisation: this €13 billion needs to be allocated and distributed... obviously housing/poverty a priority but GAA should be getting funds towards Casement Park from it too. It's a lot of money.


Oasis and ACDC money needs to be distributed. How much more hand-out do the GAA need for a vanity project?
You'll find that the GAA has for decades made, and continues to make, a great contribution to Irish community life than any other organisation in the country including the Catholic Church. It is a decent GAA stadium is needed not a 'vanity project' (today's buzzword) for Gaelic Games in Ulster.

You'll find Rugby, Soccer, Basketball and a plethora of other organisations have made great contribution to Irish life also. All had to put up with the Apartheid regime of the GAA which held them back until 1971. Which still lingers in rural Ireland and beyond. 

Casement Park redevelopment is on a par with the Bike Shed in Leinster House in wasting money.

armaghniac

Quote from: From the Bunker on September 15, 2024, 12:12:34 AMYou'll find Rugby, Soccer, Basketball and a plethora of other organisations have made great contribution to Irish life also. All had to put up with the Apartheid regime of the GAA which held them back until 1971. Which still lingers in rural Ireland and beyond. 

Casement Park redevelopment is on a par with the Bike Shed in Leinster House in wasting money.


A lot of these "sporting" organisations were then, and are now, paying people not to play GAA.

MAGA Make Armagh Great Again

Truthsayer

Quote from: From the Bunker on September 15, 2024, 12:12:34 AM
Quote from: Truthsayer on September 14, 2024, 02:31:18 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 14, 2024, 02:19:05 PM
Quote from: Truthsayer on September 14, 2024, 02:15:20 PMWhat odds about the Euros? A decent GAA stadium is needed at Casement Park. The British government is never to be trusted. If we don't know that by now...
GAA is an All Ireland organisation: this €13 billion needs to be allocated and distributed... obviously housing/poverty a priority but GAA should be getting funds towards Casement Park from it too. It's a lot of money.


Oasis and ACDC money needs to be distributed. How much more hand-out do the GAA need for a vanity project?
You'll find that the GAA has for decades made, and continues to make, a great contribution to Irish community life than any other organisation in the country including the Catholic Church. It is a decent GAA stadium is needed not a 'vanity project' (today's buzzword) for Gaelic Games in Ulster.

You'll find Rugby, Soccer, Basketball and a plethora of other organisations have made great contribution to Irish life also. All had to put up with the Apartheid regime of the GAA which held them back until 1971. Which still lingers in rural Ireland and beyond. 

Casement Park redevelopment is on a par with the Bike Shed in Leinster House in wasting money.


I have never had a knock on my door from any of those sports selling tickets or doing anything to help themselves. At grassroots level the GAA is the most vibrant association and heartbeat of many communities that goes way beyond playing games.
1971 is 53 years ago maybe you need to move on.. the 'foreign game' rule was past it's use by then and was duly despatched.
Childish comment about the bike shed. You're obviously anti-GAA but probably don't mind other sports begging to use GAA property to play their big games that they can't accommodate.
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/the-gaas-value-to-society-is-immense-on-all-fronts-says-english-university-professor/a1423808064.html

RadioGAAGAA

Quote from: armaghniac on September 14, 2024, 11:28:02 PMIt seems that the old stand side is rather "thin", and it would be more appropriate to build on the other side. Did they acquire any extra land?



You'd probably prefer the prevailing wind to be at the back of the stand though for a few other reasons.

Maybe nudge the pitch a few metres across to the North-East? Steeper terracing gives a better view anyway.
i usse an speelchekor

6th sam

The UK are nothing if not predictable and consistent .The good news re the Pat Finucane inquiry  early in week, then the Sean brown inquiry rejection , and the Casement  rejection on a Friday afternoon & evening .
Anyone not cynical about politics will have got their eyes opened this week.

That said , as a GAA man, if I had £400 million to spend , I wouldn't spend it on a 34000 seater Euro28 stadium that will give a massive leg up to soccer ( no antagonism towards soccer but as a GAA man it's a rival sport) , and risk the understandable conflict around union jacks and Ulster flags in Andytown. Maintenance costs for such a high spec stadium will be enormous , future ticket prices exorbitant, extra costs passed on to clubs-no money available for club development. Filled once per year. Poor Atmosphere for most games in a near empty stadium .
And significantly the uk funding may come with unwanted strings attached.
Tbf IFA has conducted itself well throughout the process, and are genuinely trying to change the ethos around NI soccer . However a significant and influential proportion of NI supporters and unionist politicians couldn't disguise the fact that they can't abide Irish people in the six counties getting anything ( why are we surprised , given years of anti-Irish racism accepted as normal, in this failed statelet) .
I actually find it hilarious that they would sooner pass up the chance of their team playing in the world's biggest sporting event in 2028 , and the spinoff for NI soccer and NI economy and wellbeing, than give anything to "themuns ".
It's that racist ethos from a few , that continues to hold the six counties back , and is repulsive to most of the population here, Catholic and Protestant, but nobody seems calls it out.

As TV exposure increases , live attendances are likely to dip further.
A 25k sit/terrace will attract as many concerts , and will be packed out more times , compared to a 34k all seater .  A compact venue with fans close to the pitch is much better. I got far more buzz out of Down beating Tyrone in a packed Páirc Esler in 2008 in the first round of Ulster, than Down beating Cork in the All Ireland semi of 1994. The Athletic  grounds is the best model of what provincial GAA stadia should be like...aesthetically good, standing option for atmosphere and affordable ticket cost , appropriate size so that it's regularly packed out . Regrettably , with the GAA shooting itself in the foot in diluting provincial championships , and Too much TV exposure , attendances will dwindle further . We don't need a 34k stadium . If the GAA were smart about distributing all Ulster final tickets thru clubs it would boost club membership and there'd be a buzzing 25k crowd  of committed GAA fans for Ulster finals. If it was felt that Casement couldn't accommodate the crowd , it could go to Croke Park like happened before. Also The architects could future proof it by leaving room for additional terracing if (unlikely) there was a demand and funding in the future , for expansion .

The £62.5k pledged in 2011 would equate to £100k now, add in ROI funding and GAA funding , and promised UK funding,  for a well overdue boost to west Belfast economy and wellbeing  . That's  a significant package for a sustainable, state of the art , compact,  Marquee venue.

Imagine a mini Croke park ..a compact modern functional 25k stadium, fit to host gaa games , conferences , exhibitions, concerts . A hotel opportunity next door .
Antrim gets their stadium back, several packed out games, schools finals. Ulster semis and finals , Ai qualifiers . Sustainable income generator to distribute to clubs .

Páirc Uí Chaoimh is an example of the folly of building a large stadium that is rarely filled.
Any concerts they hosted could have been hosted in a 25k stadium .

We are now in a position of strength. We have been shafted , but ROI , UK , Stormont were actually going to back a £400k west Belfast stadium for a soccer tournament. The principle of a marquee west Belfast stadium has been established .
We know Euro28 isn't going to happen, so we've an opportunity to recalibrate.
The original 38k stadium was proposed 15 years ago at a time when a couple of Ulster finals attracted unprecedented interest. Those days are gone . Let's develop a stunning 25k sit/stand , compact cauldron, with concert, conference , hotel facilities ( perhaps private investment will further boost funding ) which enhances a vibrant but long suffering community. What better motivation for this project than a desire to bury the narrow minded racism that has held this place back for years.

Duine Inteacht Eile

If this is such an important project to the GAA, why have they refused to budge on adding a single penny to the contribution they pledged 15 years ago?
Whatever about anything else, the optics of that are very poor.

Rossfan

Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

seafoid

Apparently 120mn  has to date been committed  with the Brits on the hook for an undisclosed amoount. So It's not over

armaghniac

Quote from: 6th sam on September 15, 2024, 08:40:19 AMA 25k sit/terrace will attract as many concerts , and will be packed out more times , compared to a 34k all seater .  A compact venue with fans close to the pitch is much better. I got far more buzz out of Down beating Tyrone in a packed Páirc Esler in 2008 in the first round of Ulster, than Down beating Cork in the All Ireland semi of 1994. The Athletic  grounds is the best model of what provincial GAA stadia should be like...aesthetically good, standing option for atmosphere and affordable ticket cost , appropriate size so that it's regularly packed out . Regrettably , with the GAA shooting itself in the foot in diluting provincial championships , and Too much TV exposure , attendances will dwindle further . We don't need a 34k stadium . If the GAA were smart about distributing all Ulster final tickets thru clubs it would boost club membership and there'd be a buzzing 25k crowd  of committed GAA fans for Ulster finals. If it was felt that Casement couldn't accommodate the crowd , it could go to Croke Park like happened before. Also The architects could future proof it by leaving room for additional terracing if (unlikely) there was a demand and funding in the future , for expansion .

A stadium that is packed out many times is a stadium where many people were turned away from games.
The GAA already distributes Ulster final tickets through clubs and clubs all over Ulster, there are none on public sale and the only non club tickets are the season tickets.  With a 25K limit this would mean that people in the participating counties who had attended the semi-final and even league games would not get tickets. There is already a problem that the GAA will advertise on TV to go along to support you county and you go the semi final, but then you cannot get a ticket for the final. It is easy to advocate for restricted attendances if you are one of the people who will get those tickets. While TV plays a role, being able to go along to the actual game is one the things that the GAA can offer. The good stand and terracing for bigger crowds is a good model, the present design of Casement is not an all seater for GAA. 
MAGA Make Armagh Great Again

6th sam

25k is a sensible starting figure to aim for, with a provision for capacity increase if there is a demand , and funding and sustainability secured .
A few facts to consider :
There were <29k at this years Ulster final.
All those committed Armagh fans missing out on a ticket must have got lost on the way to Clones in the previous match , the semi against Down , when there was an attendance of 12,116.
Since u asked , I am one of the people who would get a ticket.
I've been a volunteer across many aspects of the association over the years and don't know any "committed Gael " who didn't get a ticket for a match if they really wanted it, despite the narrative promoted by some ( usually people who wouldn't even know the address of their local GAA club). That may sound harsh but it's based on my own experience .
I have sympathy for those in large clubs . I  come from a club with a big membership , and I think there should be a pro rata distribution of tickets based on club membership.

It's absolute madness to construct a stadium  on the basis of a predicted crowd which at best would happen for 1 game a year, when all indicators are that attendances are likely to decrease .
Your home ground in Armagh is an example of what a compact stadium can deliver.
A smaller capacity will make tickets a premium , but I wouldn't make that premium a  financial cost , just a commitment cost, aligned to
Membership of your club. After Down reached the AI final in 2010 our club membership increased.
Have u ever tried to get a ticket for a rugby international? It's  club aligned as well.
Somebody above mentioned the GAA increasing it's contribution, but that contribution was agreed with other sports as well, and GAA was up for a combined stadium , which was rejected by anti-gaa bigots. The delay is only partly the GAA's fault, why should the  cost of this delay be passed onto GAA clubs.
The GAA are right to try to get as much funding as possible from all sources including the private sector , for a project that has economic and wellbeing benefits, rather than just pass it on to their members.


Duine Inteacht Eile

Quote from: 6th sam on September 15, 2024, 02:17:24 PM25k is a sensible starting figure to aim for, with a provision for capacity increase if there is a demand , and funding and sustainability secured .
A few facts to consider :
There were <29k at this years Ulster final.
All those committed Armagh fans missing out on a ticket must have got lost on the way to Clones in the previous match , the semi against Down , when there was an attendance of 12,116.
Since u asked , I am one of the people who would get a ticket.
I've been a volunteer across many aspects of the association over the years and don't know any "committed Gael " who didn't get a ticket for a match if they really wanted it, despite the narrative promoted by some ( usually people who wouldn't even know the address of their local GAA club). That may sound harsh but it's based on my own experience .
I have sympathy for those in large clubs . I  come from a club with a big membership , and I think there should be a pro rata distribution of tickets based on club membership.

It's absolute madness to construct a stadium  on the basis of a predicted crowd which at best would happen for 1 game a year, when all indicators are that attendances are likely to decrease .
Your home ground in Armagh is an example of what a compact stadium can deliver.
A smaller capacity will make tickets a premium , but I wouldn't make that premium a  financial cost , just a commitment cost, aligned to
Membership of your club. After Down reached the AI final in 2010 our club membership increased.
Have u ever tried to get a ticket for a rugby international? It's  club aligned as well.
Somebody above mentioned the GAA increasing it's contribution, but that contribution was agreed with other sports as well, and GAA was up for a combined stadium , which was rejected by anti-gaa bigots. The delay is only partly the GAA's fault, why should the  cost of this delay be passed onto GAA clubs.
The GAA are right to try to get as much funding as possible from all sources including the private sector , for a project that has economic and wellbeing benefits, rather than just pass it on to their members.


Perhaps, but then they aren't in a position to yap about it when the answer is no.

marty34


seafoid