Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

Started by Trevor Hill, January 18, 2010, 12:28:52 AM

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Zapatista

Quote from: ardmhachaabu on January 23, 2010, 11:28:33 AM
I remember the Shinners using exactly the same language about partitionist parliaments in the 80's and even early 90s.  It shows how much they have changed that they are now sitting in what is a partitionist parliament, they said they would never do that.  No return to Stormont and all that. 

If you look at it objectively, they have deviated so far from their initial political objectives.  Calling for re-unification, holding meetings to talk about it etc are all very good but it's merely a smokescreen.  They know they can't deliver on a united Ireland and what's more is people in the south look at SF and see that as their only real policy on anything.  They are floundering in politics in the south because they don't have a support base to call on like they do in the north and also because they gloss over the big issues when it comes down to local politics.  People in the south and a growing number of people in the north don't care about unification.  They worry more about putting food on the table and other mundane issues.  Incidentally Zap, I am not against them being in the Dail or Stormont, I think it's practical politics to be involved. 

As an afterthought, I wonder how long it will be until they are nobodies, just like Workers Party/Democratic Left whom they called a partitionist party at the time

I agree that they have done a U-turn on their position re stormont but I honestly don't think the initial policy derived from a politial party. It was an army policy. SF were nobody back then and were considered as a nessasary evil by the IRA. I don't think you can compare SF from the 70s and 80s to SF now anymore than you can compare FF or FG to respective sides and policy during the civil war.

I suppose SF can't win either way if the UI thing is only a smokescreen while voters in the South see the UI thing as SF's only issue. That may be why they are floundering in the south maybe they should just drop the smokescreen. I think the reason they are not successfull in the south is due the lack of a support base and their political opponents are far to powerfull. Electoral politics in the north is relatively new compared to the south. The SF brand has been in the north from the the time catholics started to become politically active in the late 60s early 70s while they have only been relevant to the south since the 80s which is a long time after the other major parties. The are playing catch up. Time will tell if they can do it or not.

Nally Stand

#121
I have to agree that serious work needs to be done in the south and the first step is getting someone young and intelligent to take leadership in the 26 counties, eg Pearse Doherty. On the smokescreen notion however i completely disagree. Those opposed to SF used to accuse it of not working for a UI via peaceful means. When SF become central to bringing peace and developed a peaceful strategy for a UI it is the same people who now accuse them of not being interested in a UI. It's always been priority no. 1
"The island of saints & scholars...and gombeens & fuckin' arselickers" Christy Moore

Hardy

Tough on the poor ould shinners, ain't it?

Nally Stand

To quote the Guinness Hurling ad's of old, "Nobody said it was going to be easy." Certainly not as easy as standing on the outside and criticise while not feeling the need to offer any ideas on alternative paths to Irish Unity.
"The island of saints & scholars...and gombeens & fuckin' arselickers" Christy Moore

Trevor Hill

Sinn Fein are always going to do well in the North, where politics is nothing more than a sectarian head count. Lets be honest, neither Sinn Fein nor the DUP are blessed when it comes to brains or political strategy, but they show us and more importantly the rest of the world where the people of NI are at politically. We may have stopped killing each other, but we are still as entrenched as ever and as a result we have moved away from the moderate SDLP and Ulster Unionists to the political hardliners.
Its slightly different in the South. Policies matter, jobs and the economy are important and this is where Sinn Fein fall short, especially when they let Gerry Adams speak. Adams is out of his depth when you take him away from West Belfast and is a liability for Sinn Fein in the South. But Sinn Fein will not accept this, because Gerry wont accept it. Gerry is Sinn Fein. Until Sinn Fein wake up to themselves and to Gerry then they are going to be in serious decline in the South. They need a younger leadership, they failed with Mary Lou, all that money wasted, but they cannot attract the calibre of candidate that they need because they will not tolerate individuals, they do not want ambitious people. They want sheep.
Sinn Fein will continue to attract voters of our generation in border areas in the South, people in Louth, Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal who remember "The Troubles", but the younger generations simply aren't interested in old men and their war stories. They are losing a lot of ground in Dublin at a time when they should be able to make gains. The South is leaderless, Cowen and FF hanging on until the next election when they should be punished for their handling of the economy and the banking crisis, but Sinn Fein simply don't know what to do and don't have anyone to do it for them. They are safer in the "Union".

longrunsthefox

Forrest Gump (1994) - Memorable quotes.... he ran and ran and ran and one day stopped and said, 'I'm pretty tired... I think I'll go home now. ...' 
ditto this debate

Maguire01

Quote from: Nally Stand on January 23, 2010, 01:20:28 PM
To quote the Guinness Hurling ad's of old, "Nobody said it was going to be easy." Certainly not as easy as standing on the outside and criticise while not feeling the need to offer any ideas on alternative paths to Irish Unity.
What alternative paths? What exactly are these ideas that SF is offering us?
And have we not all (including SF) agreed the way forward through the Good Friday Agreement (i.e. nothing is changing re a United Ireland until the majority in the 6 counties want it)?

Nally Stand

You ask "What alternative path?" That is exactly my point. People who are most vocal in opposition to SF's current strategy for unity don't seem to be forthcoming with an alternative idea. And the current path is not, as you suggest, SF giving up. The IRA knew they couldn't defeat britain, they could only aim to force them to the table. That is why we are where we are. SF have now endorsed a strategy where a UI can be achieved peacefully through dismantling the traditional state barriers to it, eg the...
"The island of saints & scholars...and gombeens & fuckin' arselickers" Christy Moore

Nally Stand

#128
RUC, brit army presence, a Protestant parliament for a Protestant people. They are now in a process of building community relations and are the only party with a unionist outreach branch, which aims to build trust and persuade moderate unionists that a UI is in fact nothing to fear. So I ask you in turn, if you feel that strategy is wrong...what is an alternative one?
"The island of saints & scholars...and gombeens & fuckin' arselickers" Christy Moore

Fear ón Srath Bán

Quote from: Trevor Hill on January 21, 2010, 11:08:41 AM
...If she wants to come to Ireland on a visit then Ireland should be mature enough to welcome her and remember she is your head of state, wether you like it or not.

Sorry, just getting around to digesting this tripe now  ;)

You may have a crown on your passport, but I most certainly don't, so the chances of the great accident of birth ever being invoked as my 'head of state' are something lower than zero.

Talking about living in the past -- it seems tergiversating toadery of centuries past is alive and well today!  :P
Carlsberg don't do Gombeenocracies, but by jaysus if they did...

Trevor Hill

Unless the border has been redrawn overnight then Strabane or Srath Ban if you wish is also in the UK, which would mean that the Queen is also your head of state. You may not want to accept that, but until the people of NI vote in favour of a  united Ireland then that is the reality of the situation that we all find ourselves in. Ulster is still legally British and has been as long as any of us have been alive.

SuperMac

Quote from: Trevor Hill on January 24, 2010, 02:44:59 PM
Ulster is still legally British and has been as long as any of us have been alive.
Six of Ulster's counties are unfortunately under british occupation, so Ulster is not british  ;)

pintsofguinness

Quote from: Trevor Hill on January 24, 2010, 02:44:59 PM
Unless the border has been redrawn overnight then Strabane or Srath Ban if you wish is also in the UK, which would mean that the Queen is also your head of state. You may not want to accept that, but until the people of NI vote in favour of a  united Ireland then that is the reality of the situation that we all find ourselves in. Ulster is still legally British and has been as long as any of us have been alive.
That's like something you'd hear from the DUP
Which one of you bitches wants to dance?

Trevor Hill

It is sadly the truth. Many of us may not like it, myself included, but the 6 counties remain British and will do so for the forseable future. Anyone who thinks anything different is living in cloud cuckcoo land.

SuperMac

On an all Ireland basis SF would be the third largest party in the country, how could that be saying they are on the verge of becoming obsolete.