CPA (Club Players Association)

[Jinxy]

They only launched the thing yesterday!

[Syferus]

What brand of eejit is this Griffin lad saying he'll leave if there's a strike? What union on Earth would start life with such a mad statement?

Destroying your own leverage before you start.

I'll fight for your rights, but only a bit.

[magpie seanie]

Call it OTT Seanie, but in my experience the overarching reason for creating a union is to force the balance of power. That "force" might be achieved through negotiation but it's the overwhelming impact of what a union can do (or threaten to do) that changes the balance of power.

From my perspective personally i blame clubs much more for the current mess than I blame county boards, provincial boards or the GAA.

It is the clubs that refuse to fulfil fixtures without their County players, the clubs that refuse to play league games ahead of championship games, the clubs who seek a match postponement because a squad player's great aunt has died, it's the clubs who will ultimately try to split a player in two.

from what I can see, the CPA is going to continue to fight those corners, rather than find compromise.

I don't agree. From my experience there's very little clubs can do. County boards facilitate and agree to every request from the county team set up no matter what prior agreements were in place. Certainly there's no question here of not fulfilling fixtures here in Sligo - hefty fines are imposed if that happens.

[Hound]

Call it OTT Seanie, but in my experience the overarching reason for creating a union is to force the balance of power. That "force" might be achieved through negotiation but it's the overwhelming impact of what a union can do (or threaten to do) that changes the balance of power.

From my perspective personally i blame clubs much more for the current mess than I blame county boards, provincial boards or the GAA.

It is the clubs that refuse to fulfil fixtures without their County players, the clubs that refuse to play league games ahead of championship games, the clubs who seek a match postponement because a squad player's great aunt has died, it's the clubs who will ultimately try to split a player in two.

from what I can see, the CPA is going to continue to fight those corners, rather than find compromise.

I don't agree. From my experience there's very little clubs can do. County boards facilitate and agree to every request from the county team set up no matter what prior agreements were in place. Certainly there's no question here of not fulfilling fixtures here in Sligo - hefty fines are imposed if that happens.

Seanie, you said "No one can deny there's a crisis", but if it's your experience in Sligo that most club fixtures get fulfilled as planned, what exactly is the fixture crisis in Sligo?

[AZOffaly]

Clubs make up county boards. That's the extent to which I would 'blame' the clubs.

There needs to be a holistic, national approach to this, which incorporates games played without county players (leagues etc). Periods of the year which are ONLY for county Games (i.e early summer for championship), a condensed intercounty calendar, and a guideline that county championships start all over the country at roughly the same time, and with no inter county distractions.

That will allow the club player get a regular set of league fixtures in, without county players. It will give him a blackout period when he knows he can go on holiday in early mid summer, and it will give him a guaranteed period when he will be starting his championship, and it will run uninterrupted until it completes.

If we leave the format of the inter county championship to the other thread, I'd like to see something like this proposed (obviously with tweaks ironed out) and adopted in every county in the country.

January - No club activity - Pre season county activities (training)
Mid February - Start of Inter County Leagues - Max of 7 games, played off over 9 weeks (hurling and football on same weekends)
Mid February - Start of Club pre-season, including Feis Cups, Tournament games etc.
**No League Finals or Semi Finals ** Top of Division wins league.
Mid April - Start of Inter County Championships - Condensed, standardised and with a target of finishing championship by Late July/early August.

March - April - May - June - Intra County Football and Hurling Leagues.  All games played without county players until County team eliminated.

July - Holiday break. Black out period. (Clubs can train and play challenges if they wish)

August - Start of County Championships - Run uninterrupted. Finished by End of September.

October - November - Provincial and All Ireland Club Championships.

December - No GAA Activity.

[Hound]

Clubs make up county boards. That's the extent to which I would 'blame' the clubs.

There needs to be a holistic, national approach to this, which incorporates games played without county players (leagues etc). Periods of the year which are ONLY for county Games (i.e early summer for championship), a condensed intercounty calendar, and a guideline that county championships start all over the country at roughly the same time, and with no inter county distractions.

That will allow the club player get a regular set of league fixtures in, without county players. It will give him a blackout period when he knows he can go on holiday in early mid summer, and it will give him a guaranteed period when he will be starting his championship, and it will run uninterrupted until it completes.

If we leave the format of the inter county championship to the other thread, I'd like to see something like this proposed (obviously with tweaks ironed out) and adopted in every county in the country.

January - No club activity - Pre season county activities (training)
Mid February - Start of Inter County Leagues - Max of 7 games, played off over 9 weeks (hurling and football on same weekends)
Mid February - Start of Club pre-season, including Feis Cups, Tournament games etc.
**No League Finals or Semi Finals ** Top of Division wins league.
Mid April - Start of Inter County Championships - Condensed, standardised and with a target of finishing championship by Late July/early August.

March - April - May - June - Intra County Football and Hurling Leagues.  All games played without county players until County team eliminated.

July - Holiday break. Black out period. (Clubs can train and play challenges if they wish)

August - Start of County Championships - Run uninterrupted. Finished by End of September.

October - November - Provincial and All Ireland Club Championships.

December - No GAA Activity.

If you want fixture certainty there also can be no replays in either club or county competitions. So we need to agree what to do in the event a  knockout match is level after extra time.
Also no more moaning about 6/7 day turnarounds.
More games to take place on Saturdays so more intercounty games can take place on a single weekend.

As the CPA's primary issue is fixtures, is it not surprising that they have yet to come up with a properly thought out fixture calendar as their suggestion on how to fix it?

Personally I think no replays at any level, and no more easy postponements at club level would easily sort out the majority of the fixture problems

[thewobbler]

Sadly Hound it's not even slightly surprising.

Any attempt to propose a calendar will require either a series of fixtures without County players, or else a partitioned structure (e.g 6 weeks of County, 6 weeks of club, repeat).

As such it would have potential to upset a large number of possible members (I.e. The more militant "club is king" brigade and the "there must be a solution, why hasn't anyone thought of it?" brigade").

[AZOffaly]

Yeah, I'd have no replays, or else replays on a Wednesday night if drawn after extra time.

[magpie seanie]

Call it OTT Seanie, but in my experience the overarching reason for creating a union is to force the balance of power. That "force" might be achieved through negotiation but it's the overwhelming impact of what a union can do (or threaten to do) that changes the balance of power.

From my perspective personally i blame clubs much more for the current mess than I blame county boards, provincial boards or the GAA.

It is the clubs that refuse to fulfil fixtures without their County players, the clubs that refuse to play league games ahead of championship games, the clubs who seek a match postponement because a squad player's great aunt has died, it's the clubs who will ultimately try to split a player in two.

from what I can see, the CPA is going to continue to fight those corners, rather than find compromise.

I don't agree. From my experience there's very little clubs can do. County boards facilitate and agree to every request from the county team set up no matter what prior agreements were in place. Certainly there's no question here of not fulfilling fixtures here in Sligo - hefty fines are imposed if that happens.

Seanie, you said "No one can deny there's a crisis", but if it's your experience in Sligo that most club fixtures get fulfilled as planned, what exactly is the fixture crisis in Sligo?

I didn't say "fulfilled as planned" - that's not the case. There is a plan at the start of the year and it gets altered to suit the county team as and when is required. The games might still be fixed and the clubs have to play them or get fined. I could write pages about this on Sligo alone - a small county with very little hurling where fixture planning should be simple.

In a way you've answered your own question. Fixtures are "fulfilled" and that's all that matters to the powers that be. Tick the box and move on.

You're surely not denying there's a crisis?

[Hound]

You're surely not denying there's a crisis?

I go to almost every game my club's first team plays. Over the next few weeks the Dublin County Board will issue a master fixture list outlining every league game (date, time, venue) that my club will play with also plans for when championship will be played.

I put them into my calendar and try to avoid having holdidays / weekends away clashing with them.

The last 2 league games usually happen after Dublin exit the championship as they are the only league games the clubs are allowed to postpone if they don't have their county players available. So as championship also needs to get played at this time, there can be uncertainty re the games in October and November. But the first 13 league games pretty much run like clockwork with the odd exception for bad weather etc.

There's no "crisis" in Dublin club football, in my experience of following a senior team, and Dublin has got propbably the hardest job with a successful intercounty football team and most clubs being dual clubs.

Although as I mentioned, the abolition of replays would help matters because the club championship takes place too late in the year and always has the feeling of being rushed. Abolishing replays and playing more games on Saturdays would allow the All Ireland final to be brought forward by 3 or 4 weeks and then we could run off the club championship in a more civilised manner. 

[The Trap]

You are lucky Hound....in Tyrone we don't even know when the first league game will be until a couple of weeks beforehand and then that will be cancelled if the Under 21s do well or the Seniors are in a National League play off game!

[magpie seanie]

That's great Hound but I'd suggest that it's not typical of most counties. Also, what % of league games would a senior team have their county players for?

[Jinxy]

Dublin is great.

[Crete Boom]

Is the Dublin Championship not straight knockout?

One and done per say and you go into a B championship or something when you are knocked out which could be as early as April or May??

I must admit I only heard this on Off the Ball one night so I would be interested to know if this is at all true!!

[Croí na hÉireann]

Dublin Championship was straight knockout last year alright but may be changing this year. What Hound says is true, league postponements are a rarity. If both teams want to move a fixture it has to be within 7 days. If your pitch is unplayable you have to play at your opponents pitch. When the clocks go back senior and intermediate league games are played on Saturday evenings and all the junior divisions on Sunday mornings and afternoon. What is an afterthought though is the minor and the u21 championships, typically played in November after the adult championships.