The SDLP

[johnnycool]

It's a very sad state of affairs that the majority here still vote in the 2 main parties along green and orange lines. It's not on the basis of their competence anyway!

Those who are attracted to politics in NI and competence aren't really good bed fellows.

[Snapchap]

It's a very sad state of affairs that the majority here still vote in the 2 main parties along green and orange lines. It's not on the basis of their competence anyway!

Ugh, that's one line that grates with me. I like many others vote on the 'green' side of that equation, but that's not because it's a 'versus orange' choice. I vote for the green shade because I firmly believe that people will be better served in a reunited Ireland and I'll vote for whatever party I feel best represents those views/is most pro-active on it. It's very tiresome hearing people who no doubt view themselves as some sort of "progressives" implying that voting on constitutional lines is somehow backward/sectarian/"a very sad state of affairs". People have strong, sincerely held and legitimate views on both sides of the constitutional question (after all, it's the one issue that has the potential to most impact not just people's very identity, but the entire social and economic future of the country) and voting in a what that best represents those views is entirely natural, legitimate, understandable and to be expected.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

It's a very sad state of affairs that the majority here still vote in the 2 main parties along green and orange lines. It's not on the basis of their competence anyway!

Ugh, that's one line that grates with me. I like many others vote on the 'green' side of that equation, but that's not because it's a 'versus orange' choice. I vote for the green shade because I firmly believe that people will be better served in a reunited Ireland and I'll vote for whatever party I feel best represents those views/is most pro-active on it. It's very tiresome hearing people who no doubt view themselves as some sort of "progressives" implying that voting on constitutional lines is somehow backward/sectarian/"a very sad state of affairs". People have strong, sincerely held and legitimate views on both sides of the constitutional question (after all, it's the one issue that has the potential to most impact not just people's very identity, but the entire social and economic future of the country) and voting in a what that best represents those views is entirely natural, legitimate, understandable and to be expected.

Somewhat agree with this on the national question but we do all fall into a habit of voting for parties rather than policies on many things. This week is a god example, load of nationalists agreeing with DUP on lockdown stance, but almost afraid to say

[JohnDenver]

It's a very sad state of affairs that the majority here still vote in the 2 main parties along green and orange lines. It's not on the basis of their competence anyway!

Ugh, that's one line that grates with me. I like many others vote on the 'green' side of that equation, but that's not because it's a 'versus orange' choice. I vote for the green shade because I firmly believe that people will be better served in a reunited Ireland and I'll vote for whatever party I feel best represents those views/is most pro-active on it. It's very tiresome hearing people who no doubt view themselves as some sort of "progressives" implying that voting on constitutional lines is somehow backward/sectarian/"a very sad state of affairs". People have strong, sincerely held and legitimate views on both sides of the constitutional question (after all, it's the one issue that has the potential to most impact not just people's very identity, but the entire social and economic future of the country) and voting in a what that best represents those views is entirely natural, legitimate, understandable and to be expected.

Somewhat agree with this on the national question but we do all fall into a habit of voting for parties rather than policies on many things. This week is a god example, load of nationalists agreeing with DUP on lockdown stance, but almost afraid to say

I would say the vast majority of people that are agreeing with the DUP going against medical advice, are self-employed or business owners.

More or less because they are not getting accommodated for between the Tories and then Diane Dodds not rolling out the new schemes.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

It's a very sad state of affairs that the majority here still vote in the 2 main parties along green and orange lines. It's not on the basis of their competence anyway!

Ugh, that's one line that grates with me. I like many others vote on the 'green' side of that equation, but that's not because it's a 'versus orange' choice. I vote for the green shade because I firmly believe that people will be better served in a reunited Ireland and I'll vote for whatever party I feel best represents those views/is most pro-active on it. It's very tiresome hearing people who no doubt view themselves as some sort of "progressives" implying that voting on constitutional lines is somehow backward/sectarian/"a very sad state of affairs". People have strong, sincerely held and legitimate views on both sides of the constitutional question (after all, it's the one issue that has the potential to most impact not just people's very identity, but the entire social and economic future of the country) and voting in a what that best represents those views is entirely natural, legitimate, understandable and to be expected.

Somewhat agree with this on the national question but we do all fall into a habit of voting for parties rather than policies on many things. This week is a god example, load of nationalists agreeing with DUP on lockdown stance, but almost afraid to say

I would say the vast majority of people that are agreeing with the DUP going against medical advice, are self-employed or business owners.

More or less because they are not getting accommodated for between the Tories and then Diane Dodds not rolling out the new schemes.

No, not entirely. Vast majority of parents want their children at school. The feeling is that the DUP have same outlook there. I work in manufacturing, almost nobody I talk to wants expanded lockdown s. We are working class men and women. I'll give you an example of feeling, office staff were given option to work from home 2 weeks ago. Only 20 percent took up the offer. It's obviously not cut and dry but definitely seeing people affiliate with party policies rather than green v orange outlook

[Armamike]

It's a very sad state of affairs that the majority here still vote in the 2 main parties along green and orange lines. It's not on the basis of their competence anyway!

Ugh, that's one line that grates with me. I like many others vote on the 'green' side of that equation, but that's not because it's a 'versus orange' choice. I vote for the green shade because I firmly believe that people will be better served in a reunited Ireland and I'll vote for whatever party I feel best represents those views/is most pro-active on it. It's very tiresome hearing people who no doubt view themselves as some sort of "progressives" implying that voting on constitutional lines is somehow backward/sectarian/"a very sad state of affairs". People have strong, sincerely held and legitimate views on both sides of the constitutional question (after all, it's the one issue that has the potential to most impact not just people's very identity, but the entire social and economic future of the country) and voting in a what that best represents those views is entirely natural, legitimate, understandable and to be expected.

Yes, the constitutional issue is of huge importance to the majority.  I'm a nationalist and believe in a united Ireland but I won't vote for a party purely on the constitutional issue if I believe they are incompetent and incapable of governing due to poor judgement and decision making, work ethic or incapable of building decent working relations with the other side for the betterment of all here. I believe neither SF or the DUP tick any of those boxes.  I wish they did, but time and time again they've shown themselves to have fallen way short of what's needed.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

It's a very sad state of affairs that the majority here still vote in the 2 main parties along green and orange lines. It's not on the basis of their competence anyway!

Ugh, that's one line that grates with me. I like many others vote on the 'green' side of that equation, but that's not because it's a 'versus orange' choice. I vote for the green shade because I firmly believe that people will be better served in a reunited Ireland and I'll vote for whatever party I feel best represents those views/is most pro-active on it. It's very tiresome hearing people who no doubt view themselves as some sort of "progressives" implying that voting on constitutional lines is somehow backward/sectarian/"a very sad state of affairs". People have strong, sincerely held and legitimate views on both sides of the constitutional question (after all, it's the one issue that has the potential to most impact not just people's very identity, but the entire social and economic future of the country) and voting in a what that best represents those views is entirely natural, legitimate, understandable and to be expected.

Yes, the constitutional issue is of huge importance to the majority.  I'm a nationalist and believe in a united Ireland but I won't vote for a party purely on the constitutional issue if I believe they are incompetent and incapable of governing due to poor judgement and decision making, work ethic or incapable of building decent working relations with the other side for the betterment of all here. I believe neither SF or the DUP tick any of those boxes.  I wish they did, but time and time again they've shown themselves to have fallen way short of what's needed.

You will not get many responses to this. Far too sensible for here

[Snapchap]

It's a very sad state of affairs that the majority here still vote in the 2 main parties along green and orange lines. It's not on the basis of their competence anyway!

Ugh, that's one line that grates with me. I like many others vote on the 'green' side of that equation, but that's not because it's a 'versus orange' choice. I vote for the green shade because I firmly believe that people will be better served in a reunited Ireland and I'll vote for whatever party I feel best represents those views/is most pro-active on it. It's very tiresome hearing people who no doubt view themselves as some sort of "progressives" implying that voting on constitutional lines is somehow backward/sectarian/"a very sad state of affairs". People have strong, sincerely held and legitimate views on both sides of the constitutional question (after all, it's the one issue that has the potential to most impact not just people's very identity, but the entire social and economic future of the country) and voting in a what that best represents those views is entirely natural, legitimate, understandable and to be expected.

Yes, the constitutional issue is of huge importance to the majority.  I'm a nationalist and believe in a united Ireland but I won't vote for a party purely on the constitutional issue if I believe they are incompetent and incapable of governing due to poor judgement and decision making, work ethic or incapable of building decent working relations with the other side for the betterment of all here. I believe neither SF or the DUP tick any of those boxes.  I wish they did, but time and time again they've shown themselves to have fallen way short of what's needed.

If you don't vote for a party because you don't think it is sufficiently competent, makes poor decisions, has a poor work ethic or can't work well with "the other side", then thats well and good (out of interest, who do you vote for then?) but my issue wasn't with that viewpoint. It was with your suggestion that it is "a very sad state of affairs" that the majority here vote along orange and green lines. As I say, there's nothing wrong with people voting for whatever party best represents their views on what is unquestionably the single biggest political question of our time.

[haranguerer]

Agreee snapchap. Also very curious to know who you have identified as fitting your bill for a vote Armamike. Often we will all justify our own choices whatever way we can, rather than admit they are as flawed as anyone elses. 

[6th sam]

Agreee snapchap. Also very curious to know who you have identified as fitting your bill for a vote Armamike. Often we will all justify our own choices whatever way we can, rather than admit they are as flawed as anyone elses.

Agree, would love to see us grow up & show some political maturity.
And I don't mean the clichéd "SF and DUP are as bad as each other nonsense". I would describe myself as Irish with no particular political affiliation but what really angers me are the dinosaur views , and political selfishness of the DUP. SF happen to be their greatest rivals and though they have their own considerable baggage, like Most other parties , their opposition to DUP is diluted because other parties are so vehemently opposed to SF that they either promote the "one is as bad as the other view" or opportunistically bring up selective issues from the past.. Meantime  we've a pandemic, brexit and a nut-job economy in the North , and health and homeless crisis in the South.
Post Covid and post Brexit, this Island has massive challenges and opportunities. This is going to require political maturity and a unity of purpose. We need to demand that off our politicians rather than the current scenario which is like a group of bald men fighting over a comb,  as the house is burning down.

[LCohen]

And you will be first to admit that I haven't condoned any violence from any quarter in any time period.

You will also note that I am not a supporter of any of the parties mentioned (FG, FF, SF or SDLP).

You entered this thread to defend FF/FG blindly and have proceeded to make a litany of unsubstantiated claims.

Your "I'm not a stoop" act is about as credible as any of your arguments

I did not blindly defend anybody. You know that. Anybody who read the posts knows that.

I am not an SDLP supporter. Apart from throwing them a vote well down the card I have voted for them twice in my life. Once early on and once tactically. The latter was quite recent I will admit. But they are not my party of choice. So stop your silly little games

I'm not playing games and the only one being silly is you.

You came on here with willful ignorance to defend FF/FG. You then proceeded to drag in SF out on nowhere when doing so, went on to make a number of allegations and claims with absolutely no substance towards them.

And you top it all off with the "I'm not a Stoop" line.  Belter.

Wilful ignorance? What is it I have said about FG/FF that isn't true?

SF are not being dragged out of nowhere. My point is that they should not be excluded from critique. If you are going to assess FG, FF and SDLP then it's only fair to assess SF (and everybody else). I am sure you will be the first to agree that is only fair?

I have explain the SDLP position time and time again. Not sure why it is important to you but that is a matter for yourself

[LCohen]

I'm just pointing out the absence of integrity in your personal position on this.

As for FG and FF I have no problem with their general view on NI. Obviously there are exceptions to that. Political interference to prevent an inquiry or disclosure of inquiry findings would be such an exception.

So you have no problem with FF/FG using victims of the Troubles as political footballs to score points while they continue to frustrate the likes of the McAnespie family in their bid for justice?

What FF/FG serve to do is rewrite the narrative of The Troubles. They only focus on the victims of the Provos, but the vast, vast amount of nationalists were victims of the British State, their security forces and the loyalist murder squads they colluded with and what is the FF/FG stance on that?

FF/FG routinely namecheck Tom Oliver, Paul Quinn, Jean McConville, Mairia Cahill etc but they wouldn't be able to name you nationalist victim of British state forces. That is as callous as it gets. FG TDs coming out and blaming the IRA for the Dublin/Monaghan bombings when their own party sought to cover it up. Appointing a RUC stooge as head of their police force.

FF/FG are every bit as bad as the DUP.

Well I have no problem with people being held to account? FG and certainly FF have the skeletons. By all means go after them. I'm no fan of either Party. Shinners have some serious dirt in their past and a good deal in their present. Hold them to account.

In my earlier post I specifically mentioned inquiries. So your question re McAnespie is baffling.

There is nobody in Irish politics trying to rewrite the troubles as much as SF. So if rewriting history irks you as you say you must be genuinely disgusted with SF.

You describe someone as being callous based upon evidence that exists in your head.

I think you are unwell.

The ceasefire was over 20 odd years ago. If you are digging up dirt then none of the main political parties on this island have clean hands. Murder in 1920 is no different to murder in 1970 or 1990 if you take that view, yet for many in the South and some in the North one was a fight for freedom the other a terrorist campaign. They are both the same thing. it is hypocritical to view them differently.

And you will be first to admit that I haven't condoned any violence from any quarter in any time period.

You will also note that I am not a supporter of any of the parties mentioned (FG, FF, SF or SDLP).

So where do you stand on FF and FG and the '20's then?

Be more specific. Give me a position they took and I will give my view on it if I have one

[LCohen]

It's a very sad state of affairs that the majority here still vote in the 2 main parties along green and orange lines. It's not on the basis of their competence anyway!

Ugh, that's one line that grates with me. I like many others vote on the 'green' side of that equation, but that's not because it's a 'versus orange' choice. I vote for the green shade because I firmly believe that people will be better served in a reunited Ireland and I'll vote for whatever party I feel best represents those views/is most pro-active on it. It's very tiresome hearing people who no doubt view themselves as some sort of "progressives" implying that voting on constitutional lines is somehow backward/sectarian/"a very sad state of affairs". People have strong, sincerely held and legitimate views on both sides of the constitutional question (after all, it's the one issue that has the potential to most impact not just people's very identity, but the entire social and economic future of the country) and voting in a what that best represents those views is entirely natural, legitimate, understandable and to be expected.

There should certainly be things in NI politics that grate you more than that.

When you vote for a local councillor is the reunification of Ireland up for debate? Do you think that the unglued that councillor will be greater on roads, bin collections, lollipop men, libraries, street lighting of the constitutional position of NI?

[Angelo]

And you will be first to admit that I haven't condoned any violence from any quarter in any time period.

You will also note that I am not a supporter of any of the parties mentioned (FG, FF, SF or SDLP).

You entered this thread to defend FF/FG blindly and have proceeded to make a litany of unsubstantiated claims.

Your "I'm not a stoop" act is about as credible as any of your arguments

I did not blindly defend anybody. You know that. Anybody who read the posts knows that.

I am not an SDLP supporter. Apart from throwing them a vote well down the card I have voted for them twice in my life. Once early on and once tactically. The latter was quite recent I will admit. But they are not my party of choice. So stop your silly little games

I'm not playing games and the only one being silly is you.

You came on here with willful ignorance to defend FF/FG. You then proceeded to drag in SF out on nowhere when doing so, went on to make a number of allegations and claims with absolutely no substance towards them.

And you top it all off with the "I'm not a Stoop" line.  Belter.

Wilful ignorance? What is it I have said about FG/FF that isn't true?

SF are not being dragged out of nowhere. My point is that they should not be excluded from critique. If you are going to assess FG, FF and SDLP then it's only fair to assess SF (and everybody else). I am sure you will be the first to agree that is only fair?

I have explain the SDLP position time and time again. Not sure why it is important to you but that is a matter for yourself

As I said wilful ignorance.

1) You entered this debate to defend FF/FG on their attitude to northern nationalists and how they consistently play political football with victims of the troubles for the sole purpose of political capital. So that was your opening into this thread, so you now seemed to have gained amnesia.

2) When the focus was on FF/FG and their attitude to northern nationalists, you responded by dragging in SF and going off on a tangent about them. Bizarre behaviour.

3) There's no need to deny you're a stoop, it just further undermines anything you say. It's clear as day you are. You seem to be saying one thing and then doing another.

[LCohen]

It's a very sad state of affairs that the majority here still vote in the 2 main parties along green and orange lines. It's not on the basis of their competence anyway!

Ugh, that's one line that grates with me. I like many others vote on the 'green' side of that equation, but that's not because it's a 'versus orange' choice. I vote for the green shade because I firmly believe that people will be better served in a reunited Ireland and I'll vote for whatever party I feel best represents those views/is most pro-active on it. It's very tiresome hearing people who no doubt view themselves as some sort of "progressives" implying that voting on constitutional lines is somehow backward/sectarian/"a very sad state of affairs". People have strong, sincerely held and legitimate views on both sides of the constitutional question (after all, it's the one issue that has the potential to most impact not just people's very identity, but the entire social and economic future of the country) and voting in a what that best represents those views is entirely natural, legitimate, understandable and to be expected.

Yes, the constitutional issue is of huge importance to the majority.  I'm a nationalist and believe in a united Ireland but I won't vote for a party purely on the constitutional issue if I believe they are incompetent and incapable of governing due to poor judgement and decision making, work ethic or incapable of building decent working relations with the other side for the betterment of all here. I believe neither SF or the DUP tick any of those boxes.  I wish they did, but time and time again they've shown themselves to have fallen way short of what's needed.

Fair play.

I think SF and DUP drive up each other's vote. And that is a sad state of affairs. SF are happiest with that as it minimises the chance of this place being in anyway functional.

In my view better to vote for parties that are trying to make the here and now better