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When is the draw made for the groups?

First post on this thread.

 
Cheers dude.

When is the draw made for the groups?

What is the rule on the backpass to the goalie by the way?

Is he allowed to touch the ball with any part of the body?

Or just hands.

And what is the punishment 21 metre free?

Can you take it back outside the arc for a 2 pointer?

Not entirely sure.
But I think it's a black card offence to when you commit a foul on a goal scoring opportunity?
Either way - it's one of a litany of weird and wonderful ref decisions from that match.

Doesn't say much for the 2 semi finals at the weekend if the topic of discussion here is on Derry being a 4th seed, from an Antrim man! 

Donegal as expected beat Down at a canter. Down trying to run the ball all day was never going to work against a Donegal team as tight at the back as they are. Murphy once again could be considered fortunate to not see red though!

Armagh were, imo, 10 points the better side for the majority of the game with Tyrone. A combination of eye off the ball and Tyrone subs brought them back into it though. I said after the Cavan game that Tyrone's attacking play was poor and and for the majority of this game it was the same. Canavans well shackled. McCurry was definately Tyrone's best player. McElhone is a more exciting prospect though.
I'm not entirely sure under what rule, but I thought the Armagh keeper was lucky to not get a card when he dived between the ball and canavan after a backpass to him - feels like he should have been black carded at least. But I'm not sure if the rules have given consideration that type of scenario. 
Referee was brutal - no consistency at all.

I don't think either Armagh or Donegal are as good as they are being made out to be, but I also dont see any other stand out side this year - so both have a good chance at an AI.

New rules make the games any better? Armagh v Tyrone - sideways play around the arc with rarely a ball kicked. Is that any different to games in recent years? Some very dubious refereeing calls around the new rules too causing more frustration offsetting any perceive benefits in my view.

Best score I saw at the weekend was a monster 2 pointer by Louth from outside the 45. I'd have remembered that score even if it was for 1pt. If anything we seem to be seeing less of these than before.

Final is probably a 50/50 game - with Donegal perhaps having a slight edge.

Any of the u20s drafted into the panel?
I'm going to assume that Lynch will be back, and that what ever injury Glass had during the Donegal game has cleared up.
Rogers, Murray, Loughlin, McGrogan will all have benefited from the extra window of training too.

Regroup and win the AI from being seeded 4th in a group with Kerry, Donegal and Dublin.

Carlsberg etc etc....

Had all the possession and made little use of it. Also conceding 3 goals (seems to be Derry trait) didn't help.

I didnt get to see it, but sounds like the final last year.

[Tyrone were just ok against a very poor Cavan side. Didn't look that impressive tbh]

Tyrone v Armagh then...Bookies have Tyrone slight favourites to win this game and the pundits are bigging up Tyrone saying they're back as contenders but how do they base this on one game v a very poor Cavan team. I know Armagh have had a fair few injuries lately but Armagh destroyed them in league and are All Ireland Champions yet Tyrone are fav's. Do bookies and pundits know more than me?. (TBF most people know more than me...lol) I'm just basing this on facts and results, I think Armagh will beat Tyrone TBH but the mighty Down/Donegal will await (more likely the mighty Donegal).

Not sure what they're judging off. Would expect Canavan to be back for us but even then Armagh are just to physical. Even their second string are bigger, taller, faster, just more athletic in general. Can't see us getting within 7 points of them

The new rules are tailor made for the bigger stronger sides. If Armagh don't win it would be a major surprise.
Tyrone were just ok against a very poor Cavan side. Didn't look that impressive tbh, albeit without Canavan.

With the panel Armagh have been boasting about for the last 2 years it should be straightforward win for them shouldn't it?

For real? Tyrone beat Cavan in a canter without coming out of 2nd gear. With Darragh likely back and Hampsey and Myler apparently close to full recovery, could give Armagh bother... especially with their best player Rian gone.. 

Yep.
Cavan actually cut Tyrone open a good few times in the first half but made stupid mistakes after doing the hard work.
At times, Cavan competed in MF and got a run at Tyrone - and when the game was done they actually started shooting in the 2nd half getting a few 2 pointers. They could have taken those same shots in the first half but were trying to get through for goals.

Tyrone up front were not that exciting. McCurry chipping over from unmarked positions or frees. Hardly a goal chance for them in the entire game - so for a game they were so dominant in, that was not a good sign.

Tyrone were by far the better side, but that has to be taken in the context of how poor Cavan actually were.

Tyrone v Armagh then...Bookies have Tyrone slight favourites to win this game and the pundits are bigging up Tyrone saying they're back as contenders but how do they base this on one game v a very poor Cavan team. I know Armagh have had a fair few injuries lately but Armagh destroyed them in league and are All Ireland Champions yet Tyrone are fav's. Do bookies and pundits know more than me?. (TBF most people know more than me...lol) I'm just basing this on facts and results, I think Armagh will beat Tyrone TBH but the mighty Down/Donegal will await (more likely the mighty Donegal).

Not sure what they're judging off. Would expect Canavan to be back for us but even then Armagh are just to physical. Even their second string are bigger, taller, faster, just more athletic in general. Can't see us getting within 7 points of them

The new rules are tailor made for the bigger stronger sides. If Armagh don't win it would be a major surprise.
Tyrone were just ok against a very poor Cavan side. Didn't look that impressive tbh, albeit without Canavan.

With the panel Armagh have been boasting about for the last 2 years it should be straightforward win for them shouldn't it?

Some aul priest got by paedophile hunters.. footage of him being confronted (and named) and held for police all over Facebook. Holy Week.. eh?
https://wearetyrone.com/news/priest-arrested-suspected-of-sexual-communication-with-a-child/

Know of a couple of people wrongly accused by those groups, wouldn't say much

Yeah I think a lot of these groups are more interested in making names for themselves than anything else.
However, if true, should be locked up forever and a day.

And the below scenario ?

Three or four lads round a player slapping away at the ball, player falls, unable to solo, to bounce to pass, ref deems player to have over carried, how long will he give for said player on ground possibly on top of the ball with multiple bodies around him to get himself to his feet and hand the ball to the "nearest" opposition player, even if he lets go the ball is still probably under him. 

A technical foul as he can't release, yet could be punished with a 2 pointer because he also can't hand ball back quick enough!

I've seen this exact scenario numerous times so far and that is just not fair.
There are also plenty of scenarios where the person with the ball legitimately thinks they have the free, but the ref has given it the other way. That can result in 50m.
Its at the point where the player needs to quickly locate the ref, see what way the free is given and potentially hand a ball over before the ref deems it too much time and punish with 50ms. Also seen this numerous times.

Too many rules introduced all at once with no real trial. The railway cup trial was a joke.

The dissent rule, the way its working out is good I think. Solo and go is very good as it gives the fouled player the advantage. Handing the ball over should be scrapped in favour of the old rule - but they could keep the 50m element of it.
I've always hated the Mark - and still think its got no place in the game.
Get rid of all the other new rules imo.

3. Those who enjoy the spectacle within the confine of whatever rules are in place.  There have been matches under the old rules where 1-7 to 0-9 have been as enjoyable if not more than 1-24 to 1-34 under the new rules.

The new rules give no consideration to defenders or defensive play. Everything it to make it easier to score - so much so it devalues the individual score. Some people already saying Goal should be 4 under the new rules.

Rules that say a defender is not allowed to tackle. WTF?

Or rules that say you are allowed to defend, but not too much as we don't want the defender to win out.

Rules that say you're keeper can have the ball passed to him in his own half....even soccer allows that.

Rules that say when you've fallen on he ball with 3 opponents standing over you not allowing you up, if you dont immediately jump to your feet and hand the ball to the oppositions on conceding a free, that a 50m advance is given. Even if from your position you've no idea what way the free has been given.

But but but - lateral play was bad. Has it gone away now? Has it feck.

I remember seeing players score from outside the 45 in the old rules, now if you score from outside a 40m arc you get 2 points! That's not an improvement, that's devaluing what was a hard won score under old rules.

I was just about to say you would need to stop giving your opinion on the rules lads or Rossfan would be in to give out to ya. But he beat me to it. 🤣

The only place there is constant giving out about the new rules is this forum
They were voted in by over 90%.

I think you need to speak to more people. There is a lot of discussion about them. Some positive, some not so much. But your constant attempt to shut down discussion about them is as irritating as f**k.

I've been to good few games this year, Derry, Armagh and Tyrone games. A few club games now too.
The constant discussion in the crowd is, these rules are sh*te.
The media are fawning over the rules - and that's where the perception of them being all positive comes from.
Some rules are good, such as the tap and go, the dissent rule. Lets the game move quicker and cuts out the nonsense.
The rules were brought in to make the game more exciting, encourage kicking and long range scores.
So far, games are not more exciting - for me it's exciting when an underdog has a fighting chance and games are close.  So far there have been no exciting games imo. I was at Tyrone v Cavan - even Tyrone fans were leaving before then end.

Have the new rules encouraged more kicking? Only from kickouts as far as I see.
How many balls are kicked into FF in any game? Has it increased since the new rules came in? I'd love to see the stats - which we were promised when these rules were brought in. We always had some long range scores, we now have some 2 pointers - has the % of long range scores gone up?

Have the new rules stopped the lateral play? Maybe reduced it a bit, but most lateral play now is across the new arc. Still plenty of lateral play.

I just don't get the where the huge improvement is as a spectacle.

There were a lot of good games in the league... rules do need tweaking. Is it really fault of the rules that Derry and Cavan got hammered?... 15 behind the ball and lateral and backward passing all day was a nightmare. Maybe the coaches have destroyed the game and it isn't retrievable.

In the league the rules changed half way through and there were plenty of rubbish games too.
And now we have 12 behind the ball with lateral passing around the arc. So that hasn't changed and there's no massive deluge of goals unless there is a sending off.

And no, the rules were not the reasons Derry and Cavan got beat, but they certainly contributed to the manner of defeat.
Under old rules, if you we losing all the MF battles from a long kickout, you have the option of going short to try to get back into the game, or at least to take pressure off by getting some possession. That's almost impossible now, so you just have to keep with the same long kick and continue to get wiped out. Who does that help? Not the spectator or either of the teams in my view.

From the perspective of the stronger teams, the rules are probably great. Dublin, Kerry, Donegal, Armagh...the underdog is now less likely to catch them. So the status quo remains.
I guarantee if Dublin/Kerry are getting continually beaten by 10 points under the new rules, all of a sudden the rules will change again.

Also in the league, not all the rules were applied to all the games! No hooter in Div 3/4.
No hooter in championship now either unless televised. So it's not an even playing field. Either apply the rules to every game or don't apply them I would have thought.

Can't see anything other than a comfortable Donegal victory next weekend. Monaghan have done well as a new team this year but will fall short against Donegals physicality and quality off the bench.
 A 7 to 9 point win for the Tir Conaill men.

I don't recall us ever having a comfortable win against Monaghan, even in the league. Even the last time we met in 2016 when we were easily the better team across the two games, I think we only won the replay by a point or two in the end.

This is a 50/50 game for me. McManus may be gone, but Beggan significantly tips the balance in any game towards Monaghan. It just depends on what else they have and whether McGuinness can counter him.

Monaghan have been going well and I've no doubt they'll put it up to Donegal, more than Derry did anyway.
Donegal got 1-10 from the Derry kickout, I don't see that happening against Monaghan with Beggan.
But Donegal will be too strong over the 70 I think. It's the first proper championship game though on paper, looking forward to it.

I was just about to say you would need to stop giving your opinion on the rules lads or Rossfan would be in to give out to ya. But he beat me to it. 🤣

The only place there is constant giving out about the new rules is this forum
They were voted in by over 90%.

I think you need to speak to more people. There is a lot of discussion about them. Some positive, some not so much. But your constant attempt to shut down discussion about them is as irritating as f**k.

I've been to good few games this year, Derry, Armagh and Tyrone games. A few club games now too.
The constant discussion in the crowd is, these rules are sh*te.
The media are fawning over the rules - and that's where the perception of them being all positive comes from.
Some rules are good, such as the tap and go, the dissent rule. Lets the game move quicker and cuts out the nonsense.
The rules were brought in to make the game more exciting, encourage kicking and long range scores.
So far, games are not more exciting - for me it's exciting when an underdog has a fighting chance and games are close.  So far there have been no exciting games imo. I was at Tyrone v Cavan - even Tyrone fans were leaving before then end.

Have the new rules encouraged more kicking? Only from kickouts as far as I see.
How many balls are kicked into FF in any game? Has it increased since the new rules came in? I'd love to see the stats - which we were promised when these rules were brought in. We always had some long range scores, we now have some 2 pointers - has the % of long range scores gone up?

Have the new rules stopped the lateral play? Maybe reduced it a bit, but most lateral play now is across the new arc. Still plenty of lateral play.

I just don't get the where the huge improvement is as a spectacle.

[Mickey Harte makes a good point, with having to keep 3 up there's no need for 2 pointers]

Its looks proportionally easier for players at the top level to score 2 pointers, as it should be

Mickey Harte makes a good point, with having to keep 3 up there's no need for 2 pointers

this is it, with the space with the 3 up it would encourage working goals more that working the ball round the arc for 2pts. we have inflated score lines but higher scoring doesnt really mean better. The 3 up was plenty.

Totally agree. I always thought the 2 points was a really bad idea. I would also do away with the 40m arc altogether. With players not allowed to pass back to the keeper there is already jeopardy with short kick outs and plenty of incentive for teams to press kick outs so the arc should go.

I'd agree. If they really want to keep the 2 pointers, just make it any score from outside the 45. Simple to referee and brings more skill to it.
Scrap the arc and forced long kickout and I'd also scrap the backpass to keeper. At least scrap the arc and long kick, giving teams a fighting chance if getting cleaned out in the middle. The blanket defence around the arc and the fact that teams don't seem to be kicking long and high into the FF seems to negate the reasoning for a lot of the rules imo.

The half way rule annoys me too. At the Cavan v Tyrone game yesterday, Cavan player competed for a high ball and managed to break it down away from the tyrone player, but the ball spilled over the half way line - so he had to stop and couldn't chase the ball he just did all the hard work to break. What does that add to the game?