Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball

[thewobbler]

Would a rule like the have in Basketball where once the ball goes beyond the halfway line it can't go back.  Can try to play keep ball but opposition have a greater chance of getting back.

Would love to see what counter action there would be to this. Create a horse shoe around the player once he crosses the line so you give them no option but to go back and concede a free. You really have to think of the reactions to this, and what coaches would do. You could make the game far far worse by trying to introduce something like this.

And then the counter-counter action might be to move the ball forward more quickly and not get caught isolated on the half way line? You know like in basketball?

[Dreadnought]

Would a rule like the have in Basketball where once the ball goes beyond the halfway line it can't go back.  Can try to play keep ball but opposition have a greater chance of getting back.

Would love to see what counter action there would be to this. Create a horse shoe around the player once he crosses the line so you give them no option but to go back and concede a free. You really have to think of the reactions to this, and what coaches would do. You could make the game far far worse by trying to introduce something like this.

And then the counter-counter action might be to move the ball forward more quickly and not get caught isolated on the half way line? You know like in basketball?

So you want a counter-counter action? When you don't know what the actual counter action will be? Come off, you're making stuff up here. Mad rules like this will destroy the game as you have no idea of the unintended consequences. The hand wringing from this one game is a sight to behold.

[thewobbler]

Hence the earlier post. We've hundreds of adult league across Ireland. Drop it into a couple of them for a year and see what unintended consequences appear.

Why we trial rule changes in county football has always baffled me.

[thewobbler]

Also, define a "mad rule".

Is basketball a bigger game since they introduced a shot clock?

Is soccer a better game since they got rid of the back pass rule?

Is rugby a better game since trys were awarded 5 points?

And closer to home.... Is Gaelic football a better game since the seismic change to kicking frees from hand?

——

The answer to the last one, is that it was for 20 years. Then Jimmy fucked it all up for everyone.

[Dreadnought]

Hence the earlier post. We've hundreds of adult league across Ireland. Drop it into a couple of them for a year and see what unintended consequences appear.

Why we trial rule changes in county football has always baffled me.

As county football is where the best minds are at. McGuinness etc. With a huge background team, and an innovative coach, they'll be the ones to find the faults. Not a random club league somewhere. Like honestly though, you're losing your marbles here over one game. Settle and see how other things go. Don't ruin things over one game where the stars aligned to produce that. You could play that game again 100 times next year with a different Donegal manager and never get it like that again. See it for what it is.

[Dreadnought]

Also, define a "mad rule".

Is basketball a bigger game since they introduced a shot clock?

Is soccer a better game since they got rid of the back pass rule?

Is rugby a better game since trys were awarded 5 points?

And closer to home.... Is Gaelic football a better game since the seismic change to kicking frees from hand?

——

The answer to the last one, is that it was for 20 years. Then Jimmy fucked it all up for everyone.

I mean coming up with a rule off the top of your head, to try fix the end results but not the root cause. That's a mad rule. Do any other large field sports (and please stop using basketball, it's an indoor limited court space sport) have rules to prevent you going back past a certain point? Any of them? No. Stop trying to fix a problem that we've seen literally once. And it wasn't even that much of a problem, RTE spitting feathers, but many enjoyed the tenseness of the game. I for sure did. It was a tactical arm wrestle.

Back pass rule is to stop picking it up, not stopping the ball going back at all.

[thewobbler]

Visit page 1 of this thread.

This isn't because of "one game".

By the way:

in American football and rugby league if you don't go forward you lose possession.

In Aussie rules, a man can legally clatter you to the ground if you hold onto possession, then it's a turnover.

In soccer they took away the back pass to prevent teams being able to recycle the ball in their own half.

But here. Close your eyes. See what you want to see.

[Dreadnought]

Visit page 1 of this thread.

This isn't because of "one game".

By the way:

in American football and rugby league if you don't go forward you lose possession.

In Aussie rules, a man can legally clatter you to the ground if you hold onto possession, then it's a turnover.

In soccer they took away the back pass to prevent teams being able to recycle the ball in their own half.

But here. Close your eyes. See what you want to see.

Here mate, not sure I'd be looking at American football for inspiration. And Rugby league works as they've a 5 tackle rule which is odd. They drove it by looking at the problem a different way. Not just saying you can't run back with the ball (you can, just the incentive is not to, so it's rarely seen). And I don't have my eyes closed. I just don't see this as the problem and the solution. I think you're looking in the wrong place for the issue here

[LeoMc]

Would a rule like the have in Basketball where once the ball goes beyond the halfway line it can't go back.  Can try to play keep ball but opposition have a greater chance of getting back.

Would love to see what counter action there would be to this. Create a horse shoe around the player once he crosses the line so you give them no option but to go back and concede a free. You really have to think of the reactions to this, and what coaches would do. You could make the game far far worse by trying to introduce something like this.

And then the counter-counter action might be to move the ball forward more quickly and not get caught isolated on the half way line? You know like in basketball?

Maybe more fist passing, easiest way to move the ball quickly and accurately!

[onefineday]

Both teams in ulster final scored 1-12 I think in normal time, that would be enough to win you half of the all ireland finals in the 90s. People need to take their nostalgia goggles off. Football back then was hoofball, there is far more skill and tactics involved now. If you can't enjoy different types of games and different styles sport isn't for you.

This isn't about scoring, if we wanted scoring we'd watch the borefest that hurling frequently presents us with. Short puck out and tap over the bar from 110 yds in a 38pts to 29pts 'thriller' with what is now a mundane display of long range point taking from play or placed balls.
We know that skill levels, fitness levels and tactical nous are at all time high levels, but that doesn't translate into excitement, it bores fans and, it also bores players and potential players.
We know there have been many appalling games in the past, there were also many classics. Supporters and neutral fans want a mix, they want skills, but they also want spills, they want contests, there's room for tactics, but when tactics push the boundaries to some of what we've seen at all levels over the past decade, it's time for rulemakers to intervene.

You had all this in the Ulster final with the Anglo Celt on the line... Some boys are hard pleased!

You can't let a Derry win blind you to the very long passages of tedious recycling where top forwards refused to take on defenders or shots. For years Derry refused to embrace this style of play and took the high moral ground and got little reward, by embracing the blanket and achieving unbelievable buy in and committment from the current group of players they have got the reward. It's fantastic for them, it was also unfortunate that the team they met on Sunday set up in exactly the same way, meaning that the attacking aspects of their gameplan couldn't be showcased in the manner they were versus Tyrone and to a lesser extent versus Monaghan.
All many of us are saying is that for neutrals, watching endless recycling of the ball is tedious, we want risk and reward, we want to remove the option whereby teams can see out games by retaining possession. It appears that a rule change would make the game better, we're open to options, but the easiest one to police which might make a difference is the one penalising teams from re-entering their own half again. Surely it deserves a trial. Every sport changes rules on a ongoing basis, why would we not do likewise?

[ONeill]

At what stage do we start to realise we are insecure about our game?

The 1990 World Cup was shit beyond shit. No calls for rule changes.

[J70]

At what stage do we start to realise we are insecure about our game?

The 1990 World Cup was shit beyond shit. No calls for rule changes.

Apart from the small matter of keepers no longer being allow to pick up back passes.

[onefineday]

Both teams in ulster final scored 1-12 I think in normal time, that would be enough to win you half of the all ireland finals in the 90s. People need to take their nostalgia goggles off. Football back then was hoofball, there is far more skill and tactics involved now. If you can't enjoy different types of games and different styles sport isn't for you.

1990's football was hoofball?? I suspect you didn't see a lot of football from the 90's.

"The All-Ireland semi-finals of 1997 showed a ratio of 76 handpasses to 56 kickpasses for Mayo, 71 to 55 for Offaly, 78-48 for Kerry and 86-27 for Cavan. Those ratios have gone in only one direction since. At the time Croke Park's Pat Daly, who has been involved on rule change committees going back to 1989, voiced his concern. "Handpassing has taken off to the extent that it supersedes kicking," he said. It far supersedes it now"

Same article, given who is quoted, I think it's worth reproducing!!!
"Donegal manager Declan Bonner feels the GAA, however good its intentions, is jumping the gun. "Over the last, say, 18 months or two years you could see that the top teams are playing a more expansive game now. It has become more offensive," he states. "The one thing about the summer was that they were comparing the hurling to the Gaelic championship, two totally different games. But I definitely felt the top teams were pushing on and wanting to play a more open game and I didn't see the need (for rule change).

"I think the handpass (rule) is just ridiculous. It's difficult for the players, it's difficult for the referees, it's very difficult to control. A number of times last week we had a number of different situations where it went to four handpasses and they did not pick up on it. Imagine that in a championship match which is being analysed and over-analysed."

[Mario]

Both teams in ulster final scored 1-12 I think in normal time, that would be enough to win you half of the all ireland finals in the 90s. People need to take their nostalgia goggles off. Football back then was hoofball, there is far more skill and tactics involved now. If you can't enjoy different types of games and different styles sport isn't for you.

1990's football was hoofball?? I suspect you didn't see a lot of football from the 90's.

"The All-Ireland semi-finals of 1997 showed a ratio of 76 handpasses to 56 kickpasses for Mayo, 71 to 55 for Offaly, 78-48 for Kerry and 86-27 for Cavan. Those ratios have gone in only one direction since. At the time Croke Park's Pat Daly, who has been involved on rule change committees going back to 1989, voiced his concern. "Handpassing has taken off to the extent that it supersedes kicking," he said. It far supersedes it now"

Same article, given who is quoted, I think it's worth reproducing!!!
"Donegal manager Declan Bonner feels the GAA, however good its intentions, is jumping the gun. "Over the last, say, 18 months or two years you could see that the top teams are playing a more expansive game now. It has become more offensive," he states. "The one thing about the summer was that they were comparing the hurling to the Gaelic championship, two totally different games. But I definitely felt the top teams were pushing on and wanting to play a more open game and I didn't see the need (for rule change).

"I think the handpass (rule) is just ridiculous. It's difficult for the players, it's difficult for the referees, it's very difficult to control. A number of times last week we had a number of different situations where it went to four handpasses and they did not pick up on it. Imagine that in a championship match which is being analysed and over-analysed."

I saw a lot of football in the 90s. Your stats of kick pass to handpass ratios are what I would expect from a hoofball game.

I dunno how many times I've watched derry down 94 on tg4, often quoted as one of the greatest games of all time, and it was for it's era but watch it back now and some of the kick passing is awful, just launching it into full forward line.

I remember they played a rerun of the 1991 derry club final in Dungiven club a few years ago (Dungiven were in it). People were laughing at the game watching it through the eyes of people used to modern gaelic football.

I'm not saying we can't enjoy attacking games now but 90s football is definitely not better.

[tonto1888]

Visit page 1 of this thread.

This isn't because of "one game".

By the way:

in American football and rugby league if you don't go forward you lose possession.

In Aussie rules, a man can legally clatter you to the ground if you hold onto possession, then it's a turnover.

In soccer they took away the back pass to prevent teams being able to recycle the ball in their own half.

But here. Close your eyes. See what you want to see.

you can still pass the ball back to the keeper in soccer