Job Creating Ideas.

[Bud Wiser]

Does anyone read Gerry O'Carroll the retired Detective Sergeant who 'writes' a column in the Herald.  I for one try not to but generally end up giving in.

Last Tuesday he was on about job creation and the fact that there were TD's in the dail and Ministers who were holding their jobs as school teachers.  Maybe he has a point, but my understanding is that there are people paid to fill these positions and they (TD) do not get wages for while they are in the Dail. They are allowed protect their jobs for a certain period in case they loose their seats again shortly after being elected.

Gerry O'Carroll should know as a retired detective sergeant that half his mates, who are retired and getting state pensions that some of us may never see, are driving the same TD's and Ministers and members of the judiciary around in state cars while there are plenty of young people suddenly on the dole and faced with high mortgages who should be getting these jobs.  Not happy with their state pensions they contribute nothing from their wages to taxes and prohibit people more deserving of the jobs from getting them so I think Gerry O'Carroll should keep his gob shut.

[Canalman]

Agree with you about this O'Carroll bloke in the Herald. A real Billy Bandwagon/ "I'm a man of the people"  type of "journalist". What about seconding some Civil Servants to a new  Immigration Dept/ Visa Bureau  and  sending the Gardaí who regard it at the moment as their own fiefdom/cashcow back out on the streets.

As for the TDs people forget that they can be voted out on their asses every 4 years or so  and imo are entitled for at least 2 terms to have their teaching jobs to return to.
I wonder how many journos have actually got off their holes found out how many one term TDs are back teaching.

[Lar Naparka]

Does anyone read Gerry O'Carroll the retired Detective Sergeant who 'writes' a column in the Herald.  I for one try not to but generally end up giving in.

Last Tuesday he was on about job creation and the fact that there were TD's in the dail and Ministers who were holding their jobs as school teachers.  Maybe he has a point, but my understanding is that there are people paid to fill these positions and they (TD) do not get wages for while they are in the Dail. They are allowed protect their jobs for a certain period in case they loose their seats again shortly after being elected.

Gerry O'Carroll should know as a retired detective sergeant that half his mates, who are retired and getting state pensions that some of us may never see, are driving the same TD's and Ministers and members of the judiciary around in state cars while there are plenty of young people suddenly on the dole and faced with high mortgages who should be getting these jobs.  Not happy with their state pensions they contribute nothing from their wages to taxes and prohibit people more deserving of the jobs from getting them so I think Gerry O'Carroll should keep his gob shut.

I think, Bud, it's not as clear-cut as that.
BTW, this topic was brought up on this board sometime before Christmas. It is a matter that turns up in the media from time to time and I can't recall what the reason was for it being resurrected this time around. I think it may have been that the move was starting to find ways of paring back on public expenditure.
Anyway, it did get a good airing here.
There are quite a few TDs who benefit from the operation of this scheme. Enda Kenny is one high-profile one and so are Pat Carey and Mary Hanafin. If it was just a case of holding a TDs teaching post open for a term or two, I'd imagine there would be considerably less controversy than is generated every time the subject is mentioned.
The teacher who gets elected holds on to his or her job plus any additional increments or perks that he/she could be expected to pick up in the normal course of events. Pension entitlements based on length of service will be added as time goes on whereas the substitute will always remain in the post in a temporary capacity. The sub gets paid a daily rate and never qualifies for a permanent post. The successful TD will be paid the appropriate salary for the job minus the amount deducted to pay the sub. Remember that this sub only gets paid for the days he/she works; so no holiday pay or long service increments are added to the wages.
Enda Kenny was elected to the Dail back in '76. Pat Carey started (I think) in 1967. Both would be on quite handsome paypackets by now if they had remained in teaching. Either or both may have picked up additional allowances, such as posts of responsibility along the way. In both cases, their pension is being adjusted to take account of their lengths of service and the posts or other entitlements they may have picked up.
Subs will get paid at the usual flat rate, with the successful TD pocketing the difference between what he/she would get and the sub's daily wage.
The sub in all cases could be out of employment if the TD lost his/her seat. There is no job security involved.
I am not too happy with the status quo to put it mildly and one of the main reasons for this is that teaching jobs are being willfully withheld from qualified teachers. Many who take up subbing know full well the risks involved and the vacancy will never attract fully qualified and able-bodied applicants, unless there is a shortage of teaching posts. Pupils can miss out also as there tends to be a high turnover of subs and many will lack academic qualifications.
BTW, I am not singling out Enda or Pat for criticism; I'd rate them both as sound skins, who are only using the system to best advantage. Neither are doing anything illegal but I do think the cosy arrangement is badly in need of radical overhaul.

[Gnevin]

This is popularist nonsense . While i agree TD's shouldn't have this fall back option even if they didn't it would create what 20 jobs max?

[Bud Wiser]

I am not bringing up the issue of the teachers for the debate, I am saying there is a kettle calling a pot black here with O'Carrolls mates being promoted to as high a position as possible before going out on a state pension and taking jobs driving the same ministers he is complaining about. Mind you, his constant blabbering about all the good things he done himself and his various publications would not lead me to be surprised if he expected to oust our President Mary out of the Park and take over - and have one of his colleagues drive him around.

[Lar Naparka]

This is popularist nonsense . While i agree TD's shouldn't have this fall back option even if they didn't it would create what 20 jobs max?

I am at a bit of a loss here, Gn, what exactly are you on about?
The only personal opinions I expressed was right at the very end:
I have been a teacher for over 35 years and I feel I do know what I am talking (writing?) about. The facts are as I presented them, when talking about the way in which both teacher TDs and their subs get paid. Period!
When it comes to giving my views, I did say that one reason that makes me unhappy is the fact that those, especially those who may be qualified to teach, will take on subbing jobs and will never get recognition for their length of service. They will always be employed in a temporary capacity. Someone could be employed for years on end and still have to sweat through every election to see if the job is still there when the results come in. There will be absolutely no redundancy pay or pension entitlements. The person who subs for one year has as much job security as one who holds a job for thirty years.
In other words, sweet Fanny Adams!
In the meantime, a TD could have risen to the rank of minister, with an automatic payment of a pension after three years in office. Throw in all the entitlements and we are talking around the quarter of a million mark annually!
Supposing the same minister was principal of a school when elected. This means the salary being paid, at present rates, could be well over €100,000 annually.
Deduct the amount of that being stopped to pay a sub, which would typically be around €40,000 or so.
This means the Minister will get an extra €60,000 to add to the money coming from Dail Eireann— without earning one single cent of it.
I also did say there is another reason that makes me unhappy about the present set up. I'm talking about the fact that successive classes of pupils could easily wind up being taught by the local garda sergeant's wife or the new TD's own sister, neither of whom may have professional qualifications.
I know of cases where this has happened.
I have nothing personal against any garda sergeant's wife or any TD's sister for that matter. I have lots of things against the education of schoolchildren being of less importance than the need to boost a TD's pay with substantial amounts of money that he or she did not earn.
Gn, if you can point out to me what you regard as "popularist nonsense," I'd be much obliged.