Irish Language Act. Is the only thing stopping Stormont sitting

[red hander]

Are we to turn the clock back to 1169 and start again??

Where is their legitimacy to be in Ireland. The Irish people have certainly never given them that legitimacy. Grattan's Parliament didn't represent the Irish people

[JPGJOHNNYG]

First point. The ILA act is not about the Irish language. It's essentially about forcing the unionists to actually accept that there is another community in NI who do not subscribe to GB values and who now make up about 50% of the population. Remember when they ruled NI themselves, there wasn't one RC employed in the civil service in Derry and they even managed to redraw boundaries to ensure they had a majority. Catholics didn't have the vote and peaceful attempts to change this with the civil rights saw them being battered off the streets and eventually Bloody Sunday. In forty years of Stormont Rule, a nationalist Mp only once got a bill passed (The Wild Birds Bill 1939). One bill in 40 years. Everywhere you look, there are sinister symbols of Britishness; Carson statue, the Holy Land streets, named after British colonies which they took with much bloodshed, Ireton St, named after Cromwell's son in law who created a famine in 1651 when he besieged Limerick. If youy think that's all old crusty history, just look at a decision made TODAY! Around the NI soccer team who have applied to wear poppies on their jerseys in their play off match. A total ingoring of the fact that 50% of the population and rising were the greatest victims of the very imperialism it seeks to triumph. SF did their best to plough on, keeping the thing going Martin McGuinness particularly, but the DUP couldn't help themselves. They protested violently side by side with loyalist murderers when a democratic vote was taken to take the union jack down from the City Hall on all but designated days, in line with UK. That flag shouldn't be up anywhere unless the tricolour is beside it, if there was true recognition of the Irish identity, but these people actually think it should be flying over a city that hasn't even a unionist majority any more. They changed the name of the NI boat from Banríon Uladh, to the Queen of Ulster, a proactive act of sectarion bigotry, they got rid of the Líofa grants to gaeltacht students etc etc etc.

It is not necessarily SF who is pushing this, but their voters who have told them on every single consultation to hold firm. The last consultation took place last Monday night among non activist nationalist business people. It took place in Belfast (Malone Lodge Hotel). They were told by that highly educated, well connected group of what would pass for SDLP voters not to move one muscle towards the executive until the ILA and other demands are met.

Interesting.

I've come to think that bigotry is something we're going to have to live with in the current generation of unionist politicians and we'll just have to ride out the storm until a newer generation of moderates, the Trevor Ringland-types, become the normal face of unionism. Am I being too pessimistic? Is there value in trying to force the issue and force unionists to accept equality? Is it even possible to force them? Or will they always tend towards the extreme?

Trevor ringland may seem liberal but its a kind of warped liberal. His answer for the fleg problem was to fly the ulster banner I shit you not. On the same level as Rory I dont want to offend anyone or choose sides but ill wave the ulster banner at every opportunity. WTF do they not realise that it represents everything that was rotten with the one party junta that was OWC for 50 years - twats.

[seafoid]

Are we to turn the clock back to 1169 and start again??

Where is their legitimacy to be in Ireland. The Irish people have certainly never given them that legitimacy. Grattan's Parliament didn't represent the Irish people

They are there now.  That is their legitimacy.

[michaelg]

Are we to turn the clock back to 1169 and start again??

Where is their legitimacy to be in Ireland. The Irish people have certainly never given them that legitimacy. Grattan's Parliament didn't represent the Irish people

Is the right to be British in Ireland not enshrined in the GFA?  As this was voted through on both sides of the border, does that not provide legitimacy for unionists to be in Ireland?

[imtommygunn]

First point. The ILA act is not about the Irish language. It's essentially about forcing the unionists to actually accept that there is another community in NI who do not subscribe to GB values and who now make up about 50% of the population. Remember when they ruled NI themselves, there wasn't one RC employed in the civil service in Derry and they even managed to redraw boundaries to ensure they had a majority. Catholics didn't have the vote and peaceful attempts to change this with the civil rights saw them being battered off the streets and eventually Bloody Sunday. In forty years of Stormont Rule, a nationalist Mp only once got a bill passed (The Wild Birds Bill 1939). One bill in 40 years. Everywhere you look, there are sinister symbols of Britishness; Carson statue, the Holy Land streets, named after British colonies which they took with much bloodshed, Ireton St, named after Cromwell's son in law who created a famine in 1651 when he besieged Limerick. If youy think that's all old crusty history, just look at a decision made TODAY! Around the NI soccer team who have applied to wear poppies on their jerseys in their play off match. A total ingoring of the fact that 50% of the population and rising were the greatest victims of the very imperialism it seeks to triumph. SF did their best to plough on, keeping the thing going Martin McGuinness particularly, but the DUP couldn't help themselves. They protested violently side by side with loyalist murderers when a democratic vote was taken to take the union jack down from the City Hall on all but designated days, in line with UK. That flag shouldn't be up anywhere unless the tricolour is beside it, if there was true recognition of the Irish identity, but these people actually think it should be flying over a city that hasn't even a unionist majority any more. They changed the name of the NI boat from Banríon Uladh, to the Queen of Ulster, a proactive act of sectarion bigotry, they got rid of the Líofa grants to gaeltacht students etc etc etc.

It is not necessarily SF who is pushing this, but their voters who have told them on every single consultation to hold firm. The last consultation took place last Monday night among non activist nationalist business people. It took place in Belfast (Malone Lodge Hotel). They were told by that highly educated, well connected group of what would pass for SDLP voters not to move one muscle towards the executive until the ILA and other demands are met.

Without going into all the details, I'd be in agreement with you in that the ILA is the straw to break the camels back for the shinners and Stormont

Yeah me too. No fan of sinn fein but they are doing the right thing here. The dup have never budged an inch for any nationalist. I doubt they would be near stormont only for the money they get. They have been laughing at the lot of us and have been for years.

I have never been in any way convinced they are even particularly interested in peace.

It isn't really about the irish language act and never has been. Ulster scots was only a retaliatory action.

[armaghniac]

Is the right to be British in Ireland not enshrined in the GFA?  As this was voted through on both sides of the border, does that not provide legitimacy for unionists to be in Ireland?

Individuals can be British, Polish or Klingon if they wish.
It is declaring the place they happen to be as Britain, Poland or Kronos that is unacceptable.

[Rossfan]

Are we to turn the clock back to 1169 and start again??

Where is their legitimacy to be in Ireland. The Irish people have certainly never given them that legitimacy.

The Referendums after the GFA surely?
Legitimised the current situation anyway.

[red hander]

Are we to turn the clock back to 1169 and start again??

Where is their legitimacy to be in Ireland. The Irish people have certainly never given them that legitimacy. Grattan's Parliament didn't represent the Irish people

Is the right to be British in Ireland not enshrined in the GFA?  As this was voted through on both sides of the border, does that not provide legitimacy for unionists to be in Ireland?

Of course unionists have a right to be in Ireland because of the history, but they had no right to steal the native people's land, nor rule over them at the point of a gun, nor have the right to ignore the democratically expressed will of 78% of the Irish people in 1918 by partitioning the national territory to establish a failed sectarian statelet.

[michaelg]

Are we to turn the clock back to 1169 and start again??

Where is their legitimacy to be in Ireland. The Irish people have certainly never given them that legitimacy. Grattan's Parliament didn't represent the Irish people

Is the right to be British in Ireland not enshrined in the GFA?  As this was voted through on both sides of the border, does that not provide legitimacy for unionists to be in Ireland?

Of course unionists have a right to be in Ireland because of the history, but they had no right to steal the native people's land, nor rule over them at the point of a gun, nor have the right to ignore the democratically expressed will of 78% of the Irish people in 1918 by partitioning the national territory to establish a failed sectarian statelet.

Why ask your original question then?

[Wildweasel74]

Waiting out on a irish language act? Where was this on the agenda past 10yrs; dont remember it been high up the list! Bigger priority be building some irish medium schools which are currently in mobile hell! The education service is a mess with no budgets to the point am closing classrooms and kicking out children in wheelchairs to be taught in corridors due to health and safety issues which there no money to fix due to no budgets! Time these stormont clowns had a reality check; got off the gravy train and actually go do the job they are supposed to or just go direct rule for good; which would end in tears all round

[Eamonnca1]

Waiting out on a irish language act? Where was this on the agenda past 10yrs; dont remember it been high up the list! Bigger priority be building some irish medium schools which are currently in mobile hell! The education service is a mess with no budgets to the point am closing classrooms and kicking out children in wheelchairs to be taught in corridors due to health and safety issues which there no money to fix due to no budgets! Time these stormont clowns had a reality check; got off the gravy train and actually go do the job they are supposed to or just go direct rule for good; which would end in tears all round

Which brings me to a question nobody seems to be asking: What are the contents of this elusive Irish language act? Is it to have government documents and all business in the Assembly translated into Irish? Or is it about doing something that'll actually improve the condition of the language, like making sure the Irish medium schools are properly resourced?

[red hander]

Are we to turn the clock back to 1169 and start again??

Where is their legitimacy to be in Ireland. The Irish people have certainly never given them that legitimacy. Grattan's Parliament didn't represent the Irish people

Is the right to be British in Ireland not enshrined in the GFA?  As this was voted through on both sides of the border, does that not provide legitimacy for unionists to be in Ireland?

Of course unionists have a right to be in Ireland because of the history, but they had no right to steal the native people's land, nor rule over them at the point of a gun, nor have the right to ignore the democratically expressed will of 78% of the Irish people in 1918 by partitioning the national territory to establish a failed sectarian statelet.

Why ask your original question then?

You have a right to be British in Ireland because of the history. It's just that the British (authority) has no legitimacy, never had a legitimacy, and never will have a legitimacy to be in Ireland

[michaelg]

Are we to turn the clock back to 1169 and start again??

Where is their legitimacy to be in Ireland. The Irish people have certainly never given them that legitimacy. Grattan's Parliament didn't represent the Irish people

Is the right to be British in Ireland not enshrined in the GFA?  As this was voted through on both sides of the border, does that not provide legitimacy for unionists to be in Ireland?

Of course unionists have a right to be in Ireland because of the history, but they had no right to steal the native people's land, nor rule over them at the point of a gun, nor have the right to ignore the democratically expressed will of 78% of the Irish people in 1918 by partitioning the national territory to establish a failed sectarian statelet.

Why ask your original question then?

You have a right to be British in Ireland because of the history. It's just that the British (authority) has no legitimacy, never had a legitimacy, and never will have a legitimacy to be in Ireland

Thanks.

[Eamonnca1]

Of course unionists have a right to be in Ireland because of the history, but they had no right to steal the native people's land, nor rule over them at the point of a gun, nor have the right to ignore the democratically expressed will of 78% of the Irish people in 1918 by partitioning the national territory to establish a failed sectarian statelet.

The democratically expressed wishes of the Irish people in 1998 accepted the right of the British to rule the north for as long as the majority in there want them to. Do you not think we should go by the more recent vote?

[Owen Brannigan]

Of course unionists have a right to be in Ireland because of the history, but they had no right to steal the native people's land, nor rule over them at the point of a gun, nor have the right to ignore the democratically expressed will of 78% of the Irish people in 1918 by partitioning the national territory to establish a failed sectarian statelet.

The democratically expressed wishes of the Irish people in 1998 accepted the right of the British to rule the north for as long as the majority in there want them to. Do you not think we should go by the more recent vote?

+1