America`s Gun Culture

[J70]

The chickens had to come home to roost at some point.  I see the Black Power movement is now drilling openly with legally held automatic weapons, stating they reserve the right to open fire on any police officer who draws their weapon on a a non-threatening situation.  Every member has taken an oath Ro shoot first in such scenarios.  Should even the playing field a little! 

I don't share your glee, but they're going the same route as the so-called patriot/militia groups such as the idiots from the Bundy ranch and the Oregon wildlife refuge occupation with their aggressive, in your face, open carry bullshit.

However, nothing excuses the cold- blooded execution of cops that happened last night. And these idiots picked the wrong state to do it as well. They'll get the death penalty for sure.

[longballin]

The chickens had to come home to roost at some point.  I see the Black Power movement is now drilling openly with legally held automatic weapons, stating they reserve the right to open fire on any police officer who draws their weapon on a a non-threatening situation.  Every member has taken an oath Ro shoot first in such scenarios.  Should even the playing field a little! 

I don't share your glee, but they're going the same route as the so-called patriot/militia groups such as the idiots from the Bundy ranch and the Oregon wildlife refuge occupation with their aggressive, in your face, open carry bullshit.

However, nothing excuses the cold- blooded execution of cops that happened last night. And these idiots picked the wrong state to do it as well. They'll get the death penalty for sure.

unlike those cops who dispense the death penalty to black people on the streets with impunity

[seafoid]

Any media referring to this as terrorism yet? Not the right shade of brown?

I believe it should be called terrorism.  Planned sniper shootings on police and a suspected bomb... surely that's terrorism.
I won't be so naive to say there is no racism in America in general and among some cops.  I will say though that protestors and a lot of black people don't do anything to help their cause.  Things are so far removed from what Dr King started I'm sure he is shaking his head at all of this.  It has become a viscous circle.  Cops are afraid and over reacting to simple situations that could be solved without bullets.  Black people are afraid and angry and violent which makes cops even more on edge....

The link in the popular imagination between civil disorder and urban poverty was perhaps best expressed in the report of the Kerner Commission, which was appointed by president Lyndon Johnson after rioting during the summer of 1967 in such cities as Detroit and Newark, New Jersey, left scores dead. Its conclusion was: "Our nation is moving toward two societies, one black, one white — separate and unequal." But implicit in its analysis was the notion that the root causes of the violence were to be found in the deprivation of the urban slum. "Segregation and poverty have created in the racial ghetto a destructive environment totally unknown to most white Americans," the report said. "What white Americans have never fully understood but what the Negro can never forget — is that white society is deeply implicated in the ghetto. White institutions created it, white institutions maintain it, and white society condones it."

I have relatives who are cops in NYC, and they would totally agree with the reference to racial ghetto and destructive environment.

They are frustrated about a couple of things
1) - The system has created ghettos where the education system is broken, employment system is broken, family structures are broken, and poverty is rife
2) Politicians preach a lot, but never implement initiatives to help fix the situation (for example, NYC mayor has the backing of the teacher's union, who are happy with the status quo with the failed school system)
3) the police are  holding the society together by maintaining law and order
4) the police are the identified as the visual reminder of the establishment, and in-turn take a lot of sh1T
5) the Politicians point to fixing police problems to appease the crowd as its a vote getter
6) but do nothing to fix the ghetto issues (GUNS GUNS GUNS, Education, Jobs, etc)

This leaves a disgruntled mass (with easy access to weapons) going toe to toe with a pressurized police force

And the mass population shack their heads in judgment when the police make mistakes and the disgruntled mass reacts.

It is a system issue and not  at root the fault of the police.

[Beffs]

It is a system issue and not  at root the fault of the police.

Yeah, but the "system" is not some organically created entity. It was created by institutionalised racism that kept an entire race of people down at heel, for generations. The police force are the face of that system, upholding all it stands for....along with the politicians, the judiciary & the legal system. As the power wielders in all of those organizations are primarily white, there is always going to be a problem, between those that wield the power & those that are the victims of it.

Add in all the white authority figures at the top of most of the food chains, who refuse to even acknowledge that there is a problem with every single aspect of how their society is structured, from the top down & the problems become even harder to solve.

[J70]

The chickens had to come home to roost at some point.  I see the Black Power movement is now drilling openly with legally held automatic weapons, stating they reserve the right to open fire on any police officer who draws their weapon on a a non-threatening situation.  Every member has taken an oath Ro shoot first in such scenarios.  Should even the playing field a little! 

I don't share your glee, but they're going the same route as the so-called patriot/militia groups such as the idiots from the Bundy ranch and the Oregon wildlife refuge occupation with their aggressive, in your face, open carry bullshit.

However, nothing excuses the cold- blooded execution of cops that happened last night. And these idiots picked the wrong state to do it as well. They'll get the death penalty for sure.

unlike those cops who dispense the death penalty to black people on the streets with impunity

Well, the issue is intent on the part of people charged with protecting society. Can you really say the scared out of his wits cop in the St. Paul video from the other night was a bad guy or just a poorly trained cop in over his head who panicked?

On the other hand, these boys last night, for no reason except some deluded notion of revenge (presumably), took it upon themselves to murder randomly and distantly selected cops.

Their act would be equivalent to some cop walking up behind a random black dude and shooting him in the head.

[J70]

Much of US society is afraid of and suspicious of black men. They don't get the benefit of the doubt. Cops are simply a reflection of the society from which they come.

[Keyboard Warrior]

Any media referring to this as terrorism yet? Not the right shade of brown?

I believe it should be called terrorism.  Planned sniper shootings on police and a suspected bomb... surely that's terrorism.
I won't be so naive to say there is no racism in America in general and among some cops.  I will say though that protestors and a lot of black people don't do anything to help their cause.  Things are so far removed from what Dr King started I'm sure he is shaking his head at all of this.  It has become a viscous circle.  Cops are afraid and over reacting to simple situations that could be solved without bullets.  Black people are afraid and angry and violent which makes cops even more on edge....

The link in the popular imagination between civil disorder and urban poverty was perhaps best expressed in the report of the Kerner Commission, which was appointed by president Lyndon Johnson after rioting during the summer of 1967 in such cities as Detroit and Newark, New Jersey, left scores dead. Its conclusion was: "Our nation is moving toward two societies, one black, one white — separate and unequal." But implicit in its analysis was the notion that the root causes of the violence were to be found in the deprivation of the urban slum. "Segregation and poverty have created in the racial ghetto a destructive environment totally unknown to most white Americans," the report said. "What white Americans have never fully understood but what the Negro can never forget — is that white society is deeply implicated in the ghetto. White institutions created it, white institutions maintain it, and white society condones it."

I have relatives who are cops in NYC, and they would totally agree with the reference to racial ghetto and destructive environment.

They are frustrated about a couple of things
1) - The system has created ghettos where the education system is broken, employment system is broken, family structures are broken, and poverty is rife
2) Politicians preach a lot, but never implement initiatives to help fix the situation (for example, NYC mayor has the backing of the teacher's union, who are happy with the status quo with the failed school system)
3) the police are  holding the society together by maintaining law and order
4) the police are the identified as the visual reminder of the establishment, and in-turn take a lot of sh1T
5) the Politicians point to fixing police problems to appease the crowd as its a vote getter
6) but do nothing to fix the ghetto issues (GUNS GUNS GUNS, Education, Jobs, etc)

This leaves a disgruntled mass (with easy access to weapons) going toe to toe with a pressurized police force

And the mass population shack their heads in judgment when the police make mistakes and the disgruntled mass reacts.

Those mistakes tending to be the shooting dead of, predominantly, young black men. Very coincidental mistakes indeed.

[muppet]

I am sure people don't mean it, but there is lots of sympathy here for the cop pulling the trigger, and apparently not that much for the dead men. Why is that so?

There is correctly huge sympathy for the murdered police.

Asking someone to pull out an ID and then shooting him for moving his hand to somewhere you think there might be a gun, is just crazy. The cop thinks the victim is going for a gun, the victim thinks he is getting the ID the cop with the gun told him to get. This bizarre and repetitive breakdown in communication, is causing needless innocent victims and apparently there no one in the US able to crawl out from under the NRA stone to scream 'STOP!'.

[J70]

But surely a properly trained cop who can handle the job is the answer, not a deer in the headlights who is so afraid and uncomposed that he shoots an innocent man for doing exactly what he told him to do?

[muppet]

But surely a properly trained cop who can handle the job is the answer, not a deer in the headlights who is so afraid and uncomposed that he shoots an innocent man for doing exactly what he told him to do?

I would be inclined to agree, but I haven't been in that situation.

The 12 year old in Cleveland was particularly shocking in that regard. But they subsequently found that the particular officer had some critical reports on his file. Watching the cop that shot the man in the car, I would reckon that cop's file will have some interesting stuff on it. Part of the problem though is the circling of the wagons that will occur.

[trileacman]

I am sure people don't mean it, but there is lots of sympathy here for the cop pulling the trigger, and apparently not that much for the dead men. Why is that so?

That's a gross mischaracterisation of the opinions here Muppet. Barring one or two of the usual gun-nuts we all have more sympathy for the guys that are dead than the police. To accuse us of otherwise as you did is bullshit.

We have empathy for the police position in some of these cases because they're obviously not intentionally murdering black lads but it's ingrained in their psyche that all black poor people are dangerous criminals ready to shoot you. That and the fact they seem to be f**king idiots. Also Murica is filled with a load gun nuts and that's the real problem. The police are shitting themselves that some black man is gonna pull a gun and shoot them because there's a fair f**king chance that a black lad is gonna pull a gun and shoot them. Dole out guns to a crowd of knuckle draggers (police and black criminals) and it's inevitable that a lot of innocent people will get caught in the crossfire.

I don't blame either side in this really it's the gun culture that's really to blame. The fact that it persists after all these atrocities, is testament to how poor a nation America is and how stupid it's inhabitants are.

[seafoid]

Much of US society is afraid of and suspicious of black men. They don't get the benefit of the doubt. Cops are simply a reflection of the society from which they come.

That fear goes back to slavery.  Relations between police and black people in poor areas are not good. There are 5m prisoners and the black proportion is off the scale. Throw in the facts that the US is trigger happy and has a failing economy.

[muppet]

I am sure people don't mean it, but there is lots of sympathy here for the cop pulling the trigger, and apparently not that much for the dead men. Why is that so?

That's a gross mischaracterisation of the opinions here Muppet. Barring one or two of the usual gun-nuts we all have more sympathy for the guys that are dead than the police. To accuse us of otherwise as you did is bullshit.

We have empathy for the police position in some of these cases because they're obviously not intentionally murdering black lads but it's ingrained in their psyche that all black poor people are dangerous criminals ready to shoot you. That and the fact they seem to be f**king idiots. Also Murica is filled with a load gun nuts and that's the real problem. The police are shitting themselves that some black man is gonna pull a gun and shoot them because there's a fair f**king chance that a black lad is gonna pull a gun and shoot them. Dole out guns to a crowd of knuckle draggers (police and black criminals) and it's inevitable that a lot of innocent people will get caught in the crossfire.

I don't blame either side in this really it's the gun culture that's really to blame. The fact that it persists after all these atrocities, is testament to how poor a nation America is and how stupid it's inhabitants are.

Oh grow up ffs.

2 pages ago I posted a video made by the girlfriend of Philando Castile, who can be seen bleeding to death. There hasn't been a single comment regarding the victim, his girlfriend or the 4 year old girl who was in the back seat at the time of the shooting. That is all I am saying. I am not 'accusing' anyone of anything.

As I said, most people don't mean it but most of the debate in the last couple of pages (the recent shootings) is about what is going on in the heads of the cops.

[muppet]

Tweet from a former Republican Congressman.

Says it all really.

[Tony Baloney]

I would tend to have a lot of sympathy for the cops in these instances but those 2 looked incompetent and the victim paid the price for it.