America`s Gun Culture

[J70]

I wonder why The SWAT team were on the premises within 4 minutes.  I wonder, I wonder, I wonder.......
Then again lets all fall for the official fairytale hook line and sinker and get on with our little lives.

Because they were on standby and their base was not far from the site??

Is that response time unusual or something?

I've dealt with ESU units in police. They spend their time drilling, prepping equipment and sitting around waiting.

How convenient

In what way?

I know the following is a different incident but the same people are getting the blame. Can you give me your opinion on it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04EaQApquiU

Don't have an opinion either way on the false flag allegation regarding the Charlie Hebdo policeman murder as I've not looked at the details.

But let's assume for the minute that its true - what does that have to do with the response in San Bernadino?

There are a number of common denominators in most of the atrocities where either terrorists, a lone gunman or multiple gunmen/women are accused. Drills is one of the common denominators.

Drills?

Yes J70, Drills

Please pay full attention to the following interview with Dr Paul Craig Roberts, former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy in the Reagan Administration. After reading every word of the more than 40 pages of this thread every other poster need to do likewise, not only for their own good but for the good of mankind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kSugZtgXsc

Not sitting through a video, but i did read an article from Roberts' blog about the Paris attacks (linked on his wiki entry). Nothing even remotely approaching evidence. Just an opinion that it could have been orchestrated by the French to somehow deprive Marie LePen of power by closing the borders and thus getting rid of the refugee issue. Tis ironic that LePen has probably NEVER been MORE powerful than right now! Seriously, could there be a worse way conceived to reduce the influence of the far right than staging a spectacular islamic terrorist atrocity?

Disappointing that you did not take the 30 minutes to watch the video. You questioned my mention of drills coinciding with most "terrorist attacks" and the attacks on the 2nd Amendment, the video addresses this.

Have you heard of Peter Powers of Visor Consulting? Here is what he was up to on the morning of the 7/7 London Bombing.
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/uk/coincidence+of+bomb+exercises/109010.html. Coincidence or what?

Regarding the Dr Paul Craig Roberts blog you mentioned, he wrote that on 7PM possibly PST, November 13th, the day of the attack, how could he have evidence, he was merely speculating. Here is a quote from the Blog:

"At 7pm on Friday 13th we do not have much information about the "terrorist attacks" in Paris other than that Paris is closed down like Boston was after the "Boston Marathon Bombing," also a suspected false flag event.
Possibly believable evidence will be presented that the Paris attacks were real terrorist attacks".

Since then plenty of evidence has come to the forefront indicating this may also be a false flag event accompanied by those notorious drills.

Such as?

What evidence is there that they were not "real" terrorist attacks?

My point about the blog is that his rationale doesn't make any sense.

Sorry J70, you will have to do your own research, it would be a good habit for the future.
If the official story is true then they are telling us that its State Sponsored Terrorism. Who created, is training, arming and funding ISIS /Al-Qaeda or what ever namee they will come up with next?

I am well enough versed in research, logic and science that I am not going to go on wild goose chases down blind alleys after every conspiracy theory, thank you!

If your allegations are THAT well supported, surely you can at least give us the basic jist.

I've questioned the logic of using a staged attack by "ISIS" to diminish the appeal of the NF. Why should I delve any further than that?

I've little interest in moon landing hoax or 9-11 "truth" or "Obama is a muslim Kenyan" theories either. When a school kid can poke holes, I don't think they're owed further consideration.

[LeoMc]

Ah but you are not following the unbreakable logic there J70.

Paris was locked down like Boston after the attack there.
Boston was a false flag operation therefore Paris is a false flag operation.

Now I dare you to try to pick holes in that logic.

[Seamus]

Ah but you are not following the unbreakable logic there J70.

Paris was locked down like Boston after the attack there.
Boston was a false flag operation therefore Paris is a false flag operation.

Now I dare you to try to pick holes in that logic.

Well done man, a very lame piece of lick up sarcasm and like the previous post to yours rich in cognitive dissonance.

[Seamus]

I wonder why The SWAT team were on the premises within 4 minutes.  I wonder, I wonder, I wonder.......
Then again lets all fall for the official fairytale hook line and sinker and get on with our little lives.

Because they were on standby and their base was not far from the site??

Is that response time unusual or something?

I've dealt with ESU units in police. They spend their time drilling, prepping equipment and sitting around waiting.

How convenient

In what way?

I know the following is a different incident but the same people are getting the blame. Can you give me your opinion on it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04EaQApquiU

Don't have an opinion either way on the false flag allegation regarding the Charlie Hebdo policeman murder as I've not looked at the details.

But let's assume for the minute that its true - what does that have to do with the response in San Bernadino?

There are a number of common denominators in most of the atrocities where either terrorists, a lone gunman or multiple gunmen/women are accused. Drills is one of the common denominators.

Drills?

Yes J70, Drills

Please pay full attention to the following interview with Dr Paul Craig Roberts, former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy in the Reagan Administration. After reading every word of the more than 40 pages of this thread every other poster need to do likewise, not only for their own good but for the good of mankind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kSugZtgXsc

Not sitting through a video, but i did read an article from Roberts' blog about the Paris attacks (linked on his wiki entry). Nothing even remotely approaching evidence. Just an opinion that it could have been orchestrated by the French to somehow deprive Marie LePen of power by closing the borders and thus getting rid of the refugee issue. Tis ironic that LePen has probably NEVER been MORE powerful than right now! Seriously, could there be a worse way conceived to reduce the influence of the far right than staging a spectacular islamic terrorist atrocity?

Disappointing that you did not take the 30 minutes to watch the video. You questioned my mention of drills coinciding with most "terrorist attacks" and the attacks on the 2nd Amendment, the video addresses this.

Have you heard of Peter Powers of Visor Consulting? Here is what he was up to on the morning of the 7/7 London Bombing.
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/uk/coincidence+of+bomb+exercises/109010.html. Coincidence or what?

Regarding the Dr Paul Craig Roberts blog you mentioned, he wrote that on 7PM possibly PST, November 13th, the day of the attack, how could he have evidence, he was merely speculating. Here is a quote from the Blog:

"At 7pm on Friday 13th we do not have much information about the "terrorist attacks" in Paris other than that Paris is closed down like Boston was after the "Boston Marathon Bombing," also a suspected false flag event.
Possibly believable evidence will be presented that the Paris attacks were real terrorist attacks".

Since then plenty of evidence has come to the forefront indicating this may also be a false flag event accompanied by those notorious drills.

Such as?

What evidence is there that they were not "real" terrorist attacks?

My point about the blog is that his rationale doesn't make any sense.

Sorry J70, you will have to do your own research, it would be a good habit for the future.
If the official story is true then they are telling us that its State Sponsored Terrorism. Who created, is training, arming and funding ISIS /Al-Qaeda or what ever namee they will come up with next?

I am well enough versed in research, logic and science that I am not going to go on wild goose chases down blind alleys after every conspiracy theory, thank you!

If your allegations are THAT well supported, surely you can at least give us the basic jist.

I've questioned the logic of using a staged attack by "ISIS" to diminish the appeal of the NF. Why should I delve any further than that?

I've little interest in moon landing hoax or 9-11 "truth" or "Obama is a muslim Kenyan" theories either. When a school kid can poke holes, I don't think they're owed further consideration.

So the great researcher had to go to Wikipedia to find out who Dr Paul Craig Roberts is and instead of watching a short video chose instead to find a link amongst several that may coincide with his preconceived views.   Dr Roberts clearly stated he may be wrong but you conveniently decided to ignore this. I don't believe for one second that the Paris "attack" had anything to do with Marine Le Pen and disagree with Dr Roberts on this as there are a number of other reasons for what happened. Christ the man is only human, he is entitled to be incorrect once or twice in a hundred.

Why should I give you hard evidence when you won't bother looking at it out of fear of being wrong?  FEAR stands for False Evidence Appearing Real. Anything fear driven need to be questioned as it's almost certainly a lie or illegal such as the War on Terrorism and of course the other big one, the IRS. Over 90% of the populace have no idea who the IRS really are yet through fear the IRS have enlisted the self employed to become their tax collectors and have the people dread an audit. I've taken them on and beaten them, no more income tax for me. The letters they send my fictional entity now are both pathetic and laughable, like a scolded child who was caught with their hand in the cookie jar, a world away from their fear infested threats.

So stay in your little box where you will feel a false sense of freedom.

[J70]

I am well enough versed in research, logic and science that I am not going to go on wild goose chases down blind alleys after every conspiracy theory, thank you!

If your allegations are THAT well supported, surely you can at least give us the basic jist.

I've questioned the logic of using a staged attack by "ISIS" to diminish the appeal of the NF. Why should I delve any further than that?

I've little interest in moon landing hoax or 9-11 "truth" or "Obama is a muslim Kenyan" theories either. When a school kid can poke holes, I don't think they're owed further consideration.

So the great researcher had to go to Wikipedia to find out who Dr Paul Craig Roberts is and instead of watching a short video chose instead to find a link amongst several that may coincide with his preconceived views.   Dr Roberts clearly stated he may be wrong but you decided to ignore this. I don't believe for one second that the Paris "attack" had anything to do with Marine Le Pen and disagree with Dr Roberts on this as there are a number of other reasons for what happened. Christ the man is only human, he is entitled  to be incorrect one or two times in a hundred.

Why should I give you hard evidence when you won't bother looking at it out of fear of being wrong?  FEAR stands for False Evidence Appearing Real. Anything fear driven need to be questioned as it's almost certainly a lie or illegal such as the War on Terrorism and of course the other big one, the IRS. Over 90% of the populace have no idea who the IRS really are yet through fear the IRS have enlisted the self employed to become their tax collectors and have the people dread an audit. I've taken them on and beaten them, no more income tax for me. The letters they send my fictional entity now are both pathetic and laughable, like a scolded child who was caught with their hand in the cookie jar, a world away from their fear infested threats.

So stay in your little box where you will feel a false sense of freedom.

I clicked on the link it listed as a reference for the Paris thing. As I said, when that made zero sense and used ridiculously shaky logic, why would I investigate any further? I have no reason to care what the guy says, based on the little bit I read, and based on the history of conspiracy theorists in general.  If you're that much of an advocate, then YOU present the evidence.

Put it this way, if I was arguing a pro-evolution or pro-atheist point, I would take the time to lay my points out logically and to examine the flaws in the anti-evolution/atheist or whatever point. I wouldn't just say "you're all idiots falling for the official government spin" and "if you'd only do a little work you'd find out the truth". If the issues are that bleeding obvious, then it shouldn't take you too long to give us the jist.

Good luck with your false identity/IRS thing!

[Seamus]

I am well enough versed in research, logic and science that I am not going to go on wild goose chases down blind alleys after every conspiracy theory, thank you!

If your allegations are THAT well supported, surely you can at least give us the basic jist.

I've questioned the logic of using a staged attack by "ISIS" to diminish the appeal of the NF. Why should I delve any further than that?

I've little interest in moon landing hoax or 9-11 "truth" or "Obama is a muslim Kenyan" theories either. When a school kid can poke holes, I don't think they're owed further consideration.

So the great researcher had to go to Wikipedia to find out who Dr Paul Craig Roberts is and instead of watching a short video chose instead to find a link amongst several that may coincide with his preconceived views.   Dr Roberts clearly stated he may be wrong but you decided to ignore this. I don't believe for one second that the Paris "attack" had anything to do with Marine Le Pen and disagree with Dr Roberts on this as there are a number of other reasons for what happened. Christ the man is only human, he is entitled  to be incorrect one or two times in a hundred.

Why should I give you hard evidence when you won't bother looking at it out of fear of being wrong?  FEAR stands for False Evidence Appearing Real. Anything fear driven need to be questioned as it's almost certainly a lie or illegal such as the War on Terrorism and of course the other big one, the IRS. Over 90% of the populace have no idea who the IRS really are yet through fear the IRS have enlisted the self employed to become their tax collectors and have the people dread an audit. I've taken them on and beaten them, no more income tax for me. The letters they send my fictional entity now are both pathetic and laughable, like a scolded child who was caught with their hand in the cookie jar, a world away from their fear infested threats.

So stay in your little box where you will feel a false sense of freedom.

I clicked on the link it listed as a reference for the Paris thing. As I said, when that made zero sense and used ridiculously shaky logic, why would I investigate any further? I have no reason to care what the guy says, based on the little bit I read, and based on the history of conspiracy theorists in general.  If you're that much of an advocate, then YOU present the evidence.

Put it this way, if I was arguing a pro-evolution or pro-atheist point, I would take the time to lay my points out logically and to examine the flaws in the anti-evolution/atheist or whatever point. I wouldn't just say "you're all idiots falling for the official government spin" and "if you'd only do a little work you'd find out the truth". If the issues are that bleeding obvious, then it shouldn't take you too long to give us the jist.

Good luck with your false identity/IRS thing!

Show me where I've called someone an idiot, I don't go there. I have explained to you why you do not want to look at the evidence... from fear of shattering your belief system.  I also told you I've beaten the IRS, no luck needed as knowledge is power, what part of that can you not understand? Is your belief system again getting in the way?  It looks like you have a government job so you are stuck with them ever though the IRS is a private corporation, an arm of The Federal Reserve and IMF and is not agency of the US Government which of course is another private corporation.

One last chance to watch expert analysis, lets see how your so called knowledge of science and great logic holds up to this one. It's 58 minutes long, surely you will not hold this as an excuse again.  For the great unwatched (those that follow the crowd and don't have a mind of their own, believing everything that comes from the propaganda tube and their government and read the newspapers from cover to cover) I would advise beginning at the 42/43 minute where this way of thinking is expertly explained.

https://youtu.be/Ddz2mw2vaEg

[J70]

Great, 9/11 truther nonsense too. No thank you. I've seen enough of it over the years. Again, if you want to write a few lines on the "evidence", go ahead.

And btw, one can disagree with all that happened in the aftermath without subscribing to bogus engineering analysis or whatever it is that's in your video.

And the US government is a private corporation?

[Seamus]

Great, 9/11 truther nonsense too. No thank you. I've seen enough of it over the years. Again, if you want to write a few lines on the "evidence", go ahead.

And btw, one can disagree with all that happened in the aftermath without subscribing to bogus engineering analysis or whatever it is that's in your video.

And the US government is a private corporation?

Building 7 is the major smoking gun amongst several that the Official story is a big lie.
Lets hear your theory on how WTC Building 7 collapsed into its own footprint in 6.5 seconds (free fall speed). I'll remind you no plane hit that building. It's obviously yet again you did not look at the video. I'm not expecting an answer to my question either.

Yes sir, THE UNITED STATES of AMERICA is a MEGA Corporation and has no interest of its people at hand.

A book that should be in every household written by a former judge
You Know something is Wrong......: An American Affidavit of Probable Cause by Anna Maria Resigner

No wonder we live at a time where probably the most evil woman in the world, not only is allowed run for the US Presidency but is one of the favourites to become the Leader of "The Free World". Where people are captivated by a two year long dog and pony show.

[whitey]

Great, 9/11 truther nonsense too. No thank you. I've seen enough of it over the years. Again, if you want to write a few lines on the "evidence", go ahead.

And btw, one can disagree with all that happened in the aftermath without subscribing to bogus engineering analysis or whatever it is that's in your video.

And the US government is a private corporation?

Building 7 is the major smoking gun amongst several that the Official story is a big lie.
Lets hear your theory on how WTC Building 7 collapsed into its own footprint in 6.5 seconds (free fall speed). I'll remind you no plane hit that building. It's obviously yet again you did not look at the video. I'm not expecting an answer to my question either.

Yes sir, THE UNITED STATES of AMERICA is a MEGA Corporation and has no interest of its people at hand.

A book that should be in every household written by a former judge
You Know something is Wrong......: An American Affidavit of Probable Cause by Anna Maria Resigner

No wonder we live at a time where probably the most evil woman in the world, not only is allowed run for the US Presidency but is one of the favourites to become the Leader of "The Free World". Where people are captivated by a two year long dog and pony show.

Seamus....please set up a seperate thread for conspiracy theories

[omaghjoe]

Feck me is this 911 BS still floating around Seamus = James = Jim...Corr??

I remember being half seduced by this theory for a while myself, there was a documentary on C4 wasnt there years ago? After I started looking into it (via the web of course), and there are numerous websites debunking the 911 conspiracy theories.

I cant remember the half of the details of course now, but have a look through those websites with an open mind Seamus and its fairly obvious the con theories are BS. I remember being quite angry after that C4 would let such a one sided documentary on without being properly challenged, made massive assumptions and ignored facts. I have been suspicious of journalists and their hunger for sensationalism since.

[LeoMc]

Ah but you are not following the unbreakable logic there J70.

Paris was locked down like Boston after the attack there.
Boston was a false flag operation therefore Paris is a false flag operation.

Now I dare you to try to pick holes in that logic.

Well done man, a very lame piece of lick up sarcasm and like the previous post to yours rich in cognitive dissonance.

No cognitive dissonance here. My attitudes to extreme right wing conspiracy theorists and sock puppets are pretty consistent.

[Seamus]

Ye guys believe in the greatest conspiracy theory of them all. It's going to be some rude awakening when the true culprits are finally being fitted for orange jumpsuits and all the goat herders of Afghanistan are released.

This must be another right wing conspiracy theory:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2362684/Prince-Harry-witness-war-crime-US-opened-Afghan-goat-herders.html

I bid you all adieu, enjoy the Christmas and have a great New Year with a good reality check along the way.

[Hardy]

have a great New Year with a good reality check along the way.

Excellent!

One day, I was stopped at traffic lights on a slight upward slope. An old lady in a Morris Minor in front of me rolled back and gently bumped against my front bumper. She stepped briskly out of her car and marched back to mine. As I rolled down my window, she said, "why don't you watch where you're going?"

[Seamus]

have a great New Year with a good reality check along the way.

Excellent!

One day, I was stopped at traffic lights on a slight upward slope. An old lady in a Morris Minor in front of me rolled back and gently bumped against my front bumper. She stepped briskly out of her car and marched back to mine. As I rolled down my window, she said, "why don't you watch where you're going?"

and once upon a time in Dealey Plaza a magic bullet did the rounds, still believed today. So long Hardy, I'm sure you reached Detective, God help us.

[give her dixie]

If the Oregon militiamen were Muslim or black, they'd be dead by now

If, in a vacuum, I told you that a bearded man with his head covered had posted a video on social media calling on his followers to leave their homes with weapons, migrate to a new area, take over government property "as long as necessary" and use violence if confronted by law enforcement, you'd probably assume that I was talking about the latest propaganda video released by Isis, filmed in Iraq or Syria and intended to recruit violent Muslim extremists.

But that exact call was recently issued on Facebook by white rancher Ammon Bundy, the son of Cliven Bundy who also engaged in an armed standoff with law enforcement in 2014 and who currently owes the government more than $1m in fees. The younger Bundy's goal this time was to encourage his fellow American "patriots" to take up arms against the US government in protest of the arson convictions of ranchers Dwight Hammond Jr and his son, Steven.

Militia leaders claim approximately 150 followers accepted Ammon Bundy's call, although reporters on the ground are saying it's far fewer. The armed men are currently occupying the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Burns, Oregon to, in their words, "assist in helping the people of Harney County claim back their lands and resources" . Ammon Bundy has said that his people won't "rule out violence" if law enforcement "tries to remove them".

But, don't worry America: he promised everyone that "we are not terrorists". What a relief.

Of course they're not "terrorists": Bundy and his followers are just your average angry white "freedom fighters", who use weapons and ammunition to protect the US constitution and American values from the government and other Americans who want them to abide by federal laws like everyone else.

But if Bundy and his followers were like the 38% of Americans who aren't white , people across America wouldn't be watching this surreal, dangerous episode unfold and wondering what they could do to be labeled a "militia" when occupying a federal area with guns instead of "terrorists", "thugs", "extremists" or "gangs".

If one black man holding a plastic toy gun even walked in the direction of a federal building, let alone with 150 other black men all holding loaded rifles, he'd be shot dead by law enforcement, no questions asked. If 15 Muslims occupied a 7-Eleven with BB guns and masala Slurpees, federal law enforcement would probably roll up with 6 MRAPs and immediately take everyone out Waco-style (but without a Congressional investigation ).

We don't need to racially profile individuals who look like these armed militiamen (white men with bushy beards and beer bellies), but it's time for mainstream politicians to at least acknowledge and confront this dangerous threat within our borders.

Since 9/11, more people in America have been killed by right wing terror attacks than violent jihadists (48 deaths to 45 deaths) . America witnessed an "unprecedented rise" in radical right wing, anti-government groups after the election of President Barack Hussein Obama. Yet, the Department of Homeland Security buried an analyst's early 2009 warning about the growing threat of right wing terror groups to focus solely on Muslim extremists, caving to conservative pundits who complained the DHS was demonizing right wing speech by targeting these groups.

And although the number of people involved has reduced in the past two years, it has not dampened the level of criminal extremism, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.

Such groups , some of whom have been involved in armed hostilities since the report was withdrawn, are also often openly white supremacist, hostile to immigrants, Islamophobic and prone to anti-government conspiracies.

In other words, they are not unlike Donald Trump's base . And while this is the time that we would normally expect calls for all moderate militiamen to stand up and condemn the violent extremism within their midst, don't hold your breath. Republican Senator and presidential candidate Ted Cruz will probably not ignore political correctness and ask, "How can we defeat radical white terrorism with Presidential candidates who refuse to utter the words 'radical white terrorists?'" Trump, who recently said that he's in favor of killing the family of terrorists to defeat extremists, will assuredly not apply the same standard to white American "militia" members, even if they do employ the violence they've promised.

The sad truth is that extremists – both at home and abroad – are often disaffected, frightened and angry people desperately searching for purpose, validation and meaning in a world they feel has left them behind. It's a sickness that can infect almost anyone, regardless of race, ethnicity, religion or gender.

It's certainly taken hold of Jon Ritzheimer, a US Marine veteran involved in the Oregon stand-off . He's a member of the Three Percenter club , which alleges that their armed and trained members are "defenders of the constitution" willing to "protect our rights against a tyrannical government and foreign invaders". (Like Bundy, they do not condone any threats or intimidation tactics "unless an action is warranted".) Ritzheimer also led the armed, anti Muslim mosque protests earlier this year in Arizona .

Before taking over the wildlife refuge, Ritzheimer – like other extremists before him – posted a "goodbye" video for his family rationalizing his actions as defending freedom against a "tyrannical government." "I didn't come here to shoot, I came here to die," echoed another militia member , who identified himself only as "Captain Moroni".

Extremism comes in different colors, ethnicities, beards and head coverings – which is why racial profiling cannot protect us from all extremist violence. Maybe it's time for politicians and law enforcement to acknowledge inconvenient truths and confront the extremists with "American" names and grievances as they would any other. The security of our homeland – or at least our national wildlife refuges – might depend on it.

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/if-the-oregon-militiamen-were-muslim-or-black-theyd-be-dead-by-now/#.VorpMJZnNIs.facebook