Good Priests, what have they done for you.

[passedit]

Well said.

Its also worth bearing in mind that perhaps not every allegation made is in fact true.

It is also worth bearing in mind the low percentage of sexual abuse that is actually reported/alledged and the continuing policy of cover up of even PROVEN cases.

[longrunsthefox]

irrespective of what peoples opinions are on the catholic church and the excuse this gives some to take a pop, it remains that the Priests and catholic church in Ireland were fantastic to the people from famine times and before, for educating the people from hedge schools - and to a large extent are responsible for the upwards trend in educational levels in our society today.
Saviours of the poor and hungry, theneedy and inconsolable.
Individuals have excelled themselves , some famously , most only known to individual parishes.

The priests that helped foster sports esp football in the parishes I am associated with (Fr McNally pk in Feeney Co Derry) , to the parish priest that ensured that all local schools had a football and also organised food rations from the EU 'mountain'/surplus and personally distributed them throughout all the houses in the parish - 'there ya go Mrs X, youve a few hardy young lads who would like this good round steak'.

a few bad bustarts and the ineptitude of the hierarchy has allowed people to tar all with one brush.
Thats why I'd get rid of Brady , as his continuation will always allow people to moan about the Catholic church.
We need a new beginning and to properly reflect on the 95% of good and fantastic priests that this country was helped built by.

Aye dead on. The famine you say.

To quote the Bull McCabe

"Go on father, go on. Lock the gates to God's house. Sure they were locked at the time of the Famine too. No priest died the time of the Famine: only poor people like us. "

They've some CV  alrite

The International Brigade
 
..Many Irishmen heard the call of Franco
Joined Hitler and Mussolini too
Propaganda from the pulpit and newspapers
Helped O'Duffy to enlist his crew.

The call came from Maynooth, "support the facists"
The men of cloth had failed yet again
When the Bishops blessed the Blueshirts in Dun Laoghaire
As they sailed beneath the swastika to Spain.

[lynchbhoy]

But thats not whats needed. Common sense is - and ordinary people realising that the noise is coming from those with an agenda.

You're not a bishop by any chance? I think the penny is finally dropping with most of them, but not with all their followers, it seems.

I think the "agenda" of most of those "making noise" is a hell of a lot more noble than that of those who continue to deny, prevaricate, squirm and holy-joe their way out of the truth.

I believe and expect that the victims of this will be granted justice and recompense.
I would have liked to see a stronger blade slashing those guilty of crimes out of their safe nests and into jail without parole. Same for those who stopped the reports and prolonged the problem.
those guilty of doing nothing to be sacked and cast aside.
those 95% remaining should be allowed to continue on with their good work.

From GAA circles, we know bleating and whinging dont get people very far - see gpa.
Especially from people with an axe to grind (not connected to the victims).

if you dont like he catholic church - fine. stay out of it.
if you are a chuch goer etc, then take whatever measures you have or can to get your point across.
I have. whether it cuts any ice I dont know.
However all this sensationalism from people outside the tent only makes a worse situation even worse, and the victims are not helped by that , neither are the faithful or the good 95% of priests and the good work they are still trying to do.

[give her dixie]

There is a lot of chat on here about good priests and that they "arn't all bad".

Well, for me, they are ALL guilty by staying silent. If they are good priests, then it's time they stood
up and added their voice to the millions world wide who are crying out for change within the church.

Until the good priests speak out, they are as guilty as the abusers.

All this sympathy for the church and good priests make me sick. How about some compassion for the innocent victims?

[lynchbhoy]

There is a lot of chat on here about good priests and that they "arn't all bad".

Well, for me, they are ALL guilty by staying silent. If they are good priests, then it's time they stood
up and added their voice to the millions world wide who are crying out for change within the church.
Until the good priests speak out, they are as guilty as the abusers.
All this sympathy for the church and good priests make me sick. How about some compassion for the innocent victims?

thats a good bit arse about face
yu want people, innocent of all wrong doings, and who were not party to any actual info apart from like the rest of us - maybe hearing that something was going on -  to speak up about it as some kind of methodology to deflect blame from themselves.
thats genius alright.
I dont think compassion for the victims of the sexual abuse are lacking compassion.
Personally I'd like massive compo from the state and catholic church for this , plus the offenders to be shot (but accept that as this wont happen, jail for life is the only alternative - but not enough imo).
Does this help the victims, does the good priests talking about something they may or may not (mostly not) know about help things? - I'd doubt it, it would only upset the victims more I would say.

this is an example of the crazed views/requests a lot of people have been hounded into because of the sensationalisation of all of this. How the fcuk can good people continue to work quietly and effectively when loonies are calling for them to speak out.
When would this be enough though?
Speaking out, no, they have to criticise and call for blood.
Not enough then, they must castigate the catholic church. Not enough, ok then they must criticise the vatican.
OK thats not enough- the whole catholic church must be held responsible - including father pepe in bora bora.
Not enough - the whole catholic church must be disbanded.
Thats not enough either - because with some people over reaction to hit out at the church is the only reason. Not for the victims and not for the good priests and not for the good work of the Church in Ireland and worldwide.

feck sake.

[T Fearon]

You're spot on on this LB. As an example, there was a teacher (lay) in a school (catholic sector but no clergy involved on a day to day basis) who I'd heard rumours about for years. He even had a commonly known nickname in line with all those rumours. Eventually charged, tried and jailed, but only ten years after I and I presume countless others ahd heard rumours etc. He  continued to teach during all that time. Now should I be blamed for this guy, even though I had long since left school, but I had "heard the rumours" but did nothing, and I'm sure at least a hundred others could say the same?

Why should good priests suffer for the faults of a tiny minority? Also how many of these complaints have been supported by incontrovertible evidence?

At the end of the day the Church has apologised, all so called confidential deals should be made public, but the time has come to move on.

[Hardy]

Some wagon-circling going on here. You'd imagine the priests were the victims in all of this. People seem more concerned for the future of the church than anything else. Just like the bishops.

"The church has apologised".

They still don't get it, do they?

[T Fearon]

We do get it. It seems to me that the church has apologised, admitted its faults and failings, and has taken action to ensure there will be no recurrence. All priests who have been accused, and where appropriate evidence has been available, have been prosecuted and jailed. Of course everything humanly possible that can be done for victims should be done.

If anyone thinks that continued pressure will lead to the Catholic Church as an entity disappearing (which seems to be what a lot of people would love to see)  would need to think again.

Do not blame God's Church which has survived for over 2000 years, for the faults of a relatively few members.

[Hardy]

All priests who have been accused, and where appropriate evidence has been available, have been prosecuted and jailed.

It appears to have escaped your notice, then, that this is effectively what the entire debate is about. The institutional church, right up to this day, has continued to do its damndest to keep the appropriate evidence well and truly UNavailable.

But they have apologised. In fact we're nauseated at this stage by the continuing apologies while the conniving, covering up and prevarication continue and their loose-cannon lawyers incionveniently let the cat out of the bag that the canon "law" still doesn't require them to tell the truth to the civil authorities.

[armaghniac]

It appears to have escaped your notice, then, that this is effectively what the entire debate is about. The institutional church, right up to this day, has continued to do its damndest to to make the appropriate evidence well and truly UNavailable.

But the role of your average foot solider priest in setting these policies is negligible. You might as well say that the person who takes your application form for an account at Anglo-Irish bank is tacitly condoning Sean Fitzpatrick.

[mylestheslasher]

There is a lot of chat on here about good priests and that they "arn't all bad".

Well, for me, they are ALL guilty by staying silent. If they are good priests, then it's time they stood
up and added their voice to the millions world wide who are crying out for change within the church.
Until the good priests speak out, they are as guilty as the abusers.
All this sympathy for the church and good priests make me sick. How about some compassion for the innocent victims?

thats a good bit arse about face
yu want people, innocent of all wrong doings, and who were not party to any actual info apart from like the rest of us - maybe hearing that something was going on -  to speak up about it as some kind of methodology to deflect blame from themselves.
thats genius alright.
I dont think compassion for the victims of the sexual abuse are lacking compassion.
Personally I'd like massive compo from the state and catholic church for this , plus the offenders to be shot (but accept that as this wont happen, jail for life is the only alternative - but not enough imo).
Does this help the victims, does the good priests talking about something they may or may not (mostly not) know about help things? - I'd doubt it, it would only upset the victims more I would say.

this is an example of the crazed views/requests a lot of people have been hounded into because of the sensationalisation of all of this. How the fcuk can good people continue to work quietly and effectively when loonies are calling for them to speak out.
When would this be enough though?
Speaking out, no, they have to criticise and call for blood.
Not enough then, they must castigate the catholic church. Not enough, ok then they must criticise the vatican.
OK thats not enough- the whole catholic church must be held responsible - including father pepe in bora bora.
Not enough - the whole catholic church must be disbanded.
Thats not enough either - because with some people over reaction to hit out at the church is the only reason. Not for the victims and not for the good priests and not for the good work of the Church in Ireland and worldwide.

feck sake.

I think what Dixie is saying is a bit like what happened in the US where a large group of priests came together to force out a cardinal.

[Hardy]

It appears to have escaped your notice, then, that this is effectively what the entire debate is about. The institutional church, right up to this day, has continued to do its damndest to to make the appropriate evidence well and truly UNavailable.

But the role of your average foot solider priest in setting these policies is negligible. You might as well say that the person who takes your application form for an account at Anglo-Irish bank is tacitly condoning Sean Fitzpatrick.

You have a point, Armaghniac - it was Fearon who came out with "the church has apologised"  as he metaphorically walked off merrily whistling as if everything was grand because of that. I was responding to that.

But to take your point - I'd have agreed with you up to about (to be generous) ten years ago. There cannot be a priest in the country who hasn't been aware for at least that amount of time what the right course of action is in cases of even suspicion of child abuse. That was when any and every priest (or anyone else) who had suspicions about the activities of possible paedophiles, either currently or in the past, lost his moral right to say nothing.

[mylestheslasher]

irrespective of what peoples opinions are on the catholic church and the excuse this gives some to take a pop, it remains that the Priests and catholic church in Ireland were fantastic to the people from famine times and before, for educating the people from hedge schools - and to a large extent are responsible for the upwards trend in educational levels in our society today.
Saviours of the poor and hungry, theneedy and inconsolable.
Individuals have excelled themselves , some famously , most only known to individual parishes.

The priests that helped foster sports esp football in the parishes I am associated with (Fr McNally pk in Feeney Co Derry) , to the parish priest that ensured that all local schools had a football and also organised food rations from the EU 'mountain'/surplus and personally distributed them throughout all the houses in the parish - 'there ya go Mrs X, youve a few hardy young lads who would like this good round steak'.

a few bad bustarts and the ineptitude of the hierarchy has allowed people to tar all with one brush.
Thats why I'd get rid of Brady , as his continuation will always allow people to moan about the Catholic church.
We need a new beginning and to properly reflect on the 95% of good and fantastic priests that this country was helped built by.

Meant to reply to this earlier. You tend to look at this through rose tinted glasses lb. Sure you can find good examples of how priests and the church helped people but I contend you can find equal amounts instances where they did the opposite. For example, the cathedral in Longford that recently burnt down was built in the middle of the famine - hardly what starving people needed as a top priority. The banning of communion and ex communication of rebels in every single rebellion against our Birtish oppressor was another, right back to 1798 and maybe further (the brits always like to throw the bishop a few crumbs from the table to keep him happy). The war they waged against Parnell after they supported him initially when they were worried about the power of the IRB (another example of the church more interested in having power than working towards freeing the people from Tyranny) and indeed their hatred of the IRB was so much they almost collapsed the GAA due to many IRB men holding office by denouncing the organisation from the pulpit. Sure there are equal amounts of good things but lets get real that there is good and bad in everything.

[deiseach]

You have a point, Armaghniac - it was Fearon who came out with "the church has apologised"  as he metaphorically walked off merrily whistling as if everything was grand because of that. I was responding to that.

That was your first mistake

[Hardy]

You have a point, Armaghniac - it was Fearon who came out with "the church has apologised"  as he metaphorically walked off merrily whistling as if everything was grand because of that. I was responding to that.

That was your first mistake

Breaking my own first rule.