The Many Faces of US Politics...

[five points]

Kind of off topic. Very interesting moving bar chart over time showing Covid cases per state.

https://bit.ly/3matz0a

Despite everything that is known about Trump, it took a pandemic and Trump's despotic attitude to the effects of it on the elderly and the vulnerable before the polls would firmly swing towards electing Biden.

And yet the states where the elderly and vulnerable were hit worst by it were all Democrat-run. NY, NY, CT and MA.

How have those states been doing since they got to grips with getting hit hard right at the beginning when everyone was scrambling to avoid another Italy situation?

What's the excuse for all the states getting hit nine months later?

You'll need to ask their Governors that.  It's not a Democrat v Republican thing though - Democrat-run California has done comparatively well -  but Trump is no more responsible for that than he is for the disasters in NY, NJ etc.

[J70]

Kind of off topic. Very interesting moving bar chart over time showing Covid cases per state.

https://bit.ly/3matz0a

Despite everything that is known about Trump, it took a pandemic and Trump's despotic attitude to the effects of it on the elderly and the vulnerable before the polls would firmly swing towards electing Biden.

And yet the states where the elderly and vulnerable were hit worst by it were all Democrat-run. NY, NY, CT and MA.

How have those states been doing since they got to grips with getting hit hard right at the beginning when everyone was scrambling to avoid another Italy situation?

What's the excuse for all the states getting hit nine months later?

You'll need to ask their Governors that.  It's not a Democrat v Republican thing though - Democrat-run California has done comparatively well -  but Trump is no more responsible for that than he is for the disasters in NY, NJ etc.

Trump has been constantly undermining attempts to properly combat it and inform the public. He could have led a sober, serious effort to fight this (which, if he had a lick of sense, would ultimately have served him very well), but no, he thought his election chances were best served by downplaying it, calling it a hoax, fomenting right wing extremists to resist lockdowns on the threat of violence, holding rallies and flouting public health advice, politically interfering in the work of the federal agencies such as the CDC and FDA, and so on and on, anything to rile up his anti-government, anti-intellectual base.

[J70]

I should add, specifically on your point about the governors, Trump IS the Republican Party. They all pretty much bow down at his feet. A few GOP governors took it seriously and tried to address it (MD, MA, OH), but most of the GOP politicians are scared shitless of crossing him and incurring his wrath, such is the hold he has on the party and its base.

[five points]

Kind of off topic. Very interesting moving bar chart over time showing Covid cases per state.

https://bit.ly/3matz0a

Despite everything that is known about Trump, it took a pandemic and Trump's despotic attitude to the effects of it on the elderly and the vulnerable before the polls would firmly swing towards electing Biden.

And yet the states where the elderly and vulnerable were hit worst by it were all Democrat-run. NY, NY, CT and MA.

How have those states been doing since they got to grips with getting hit hard right at the beginning when everyone was scrambling to avoid another Italy situation?

What's the excuse for all the states getting hit nine months later?

You'll need to ask their Governors that.  It's not a Democrat v Republican thing though - Democrat-run California has done comparatively well -  but Trump is no more responsible for that than he is for the disasters in NY, NJ etc.

Trump has been constantly undermining attempts to properly combat it and inform the public. He could have led a sober, serious effort to fight this (which, if he had a lick of sense, would ultimately have served him very well), but no, he thought his election chances were best served by downplaying it, calling it a hoax, fomenting right wing extremists to resist lockdowns on the threat of violence, holding rallies and flouting public health advice, politically interfering in the work of the federal agencies such as the CDC and FDA, and so on and on, anything to rile up his anti-government, anti-intellectual base.

You'd swear Cuomo and the others were afraid to lift a finger in case Big Bad Donald came for them...

[sid waddell]

Kind of off topic. Very interesting moving bar chart over time showing Covid cases per state.

https://bit.ly/3matz0a

Despite everything that is known about Trump, it took a pandemic and Trump's despotic attitude to the effects of it on the elderly and the vulnerable before the polls would firmly swing towards electing Biden.

And yet the states where the elderly and vulnerable were hit worst by it were all Democrat-run. NY, NY, CT and MA.

How have those states been doing since they got to grips with getting hit hard right at the beginning when everyone was scrambling to avoid another Italy situation?

What's the excuse for all the states getting hit nine months later?

You'll need to ask their Governors that.  It's not a Democrat v Republican thing though - Democrat-run California has done comparatively well -  but Trump is no more responsible for that than he is for the disasters in NY, NJ etc.

Yet pretty much all the states which are doing worst since June 1st are Republican-run states

That's not a coincidence because science denial is an integral part of Republican ideology

[five points]

Kind of off topic. Very interesting moving bar chart over time showing Covid cases per state.

https://bit.ly/3matz0a

Despite everything that is known about Trump, it took a pandemic and Trump's despotic attitude to the effects of it on the elderly and the vulnerable before the polls would firmly swing towards electing Biden.

And yet the states where the elderly and vulnerable were hit worst by it were all Democrat-run. NY, NY, CT and MA.

How have those states been doing since they got to grips with getting hit hard right at the beginning when everyone was scrambling to avoid another Italy situation?

What's the excuse for all the states getting hit nine months later?

You'll need to ask their Governors that.  It's not a Democrat v Republican thing though - Democrat-run California has done comparatively well -  but Trump is no more responsible for that than he is for the disasters in NY, NJ etc.

Yet pretty much all the states which are doing worst since June 1st are Republican-run states

That's not a coincidence because science denial is an integral part of Republican ideology

Why pick June 1st?

[sid waddell]

Kind of off topic. Very interesting moving bar chart over time showing Covid cases per state.

https://bit.ly/3matz0a

Despite everything that is known about Trump, it took a pandemic and Trump's despotic attitude to the effects of it on the elderly and the vulnerable before the polls would firmly swing towards electing Biden.

And yet the states where the elderly and vulnerable were hit worst by it were all Democrat-run. NY, NY, CT and MA.

How have those states been doing since they got to grips with getting hit hard right at the beginning when everyone was scrambling to avoid another Italy situation?

What's the excuse for all the states getting hit nine months later?

You'll need to ask their Governors that.  It's not a Democrat v Republican thing though - Democrat-run California has done comparatively well -  but Trump is no more responsible for that than he is for the disasters in NY, NJ etc.

Yet pretty much all the states which are doing worst since June 1st are Republican-run states

That's not a coincidence because science denial is an integral part of Republican ideology

Why pick June 1st?

Because that was around when the intitial wave subsided and there were no more excuses for not putting suppression strategies in place

Predictably the Republican run states refused to take the virus seriously and were worse hit

It's also down to many Republican voters living in a la la land of make believe as regards Covid because they follow Trump, who lives in a la la land of make believe as regards Covid

Wallowing in stupidity is a defining and defiant characteristic of right-wing politics

[five points]

Kind of off topic. Very interesting moving bar chart over time showing Covid cases per state.

https://bit.ly/3matz0a

Despite everything that is known about Trump, it took a pandemic and Trump's despotic attitude to the effects of it on the elderly and the vulnerable before the polls would firmly swing towards electing Biden.

And yet the states where the elderly and vulnerable were hit worst by it were all Democrat-run. NY, NY, CT and MA.

How have those states been doing since they got to grips with getting hit hard right at the beginning when everyone was scrambling to avoid another Italy situation?

What's the excuse for all the states getting hit nine months later?

You'll need to ask their Governors that.  It's not a Democrat v Republican thing though - Democrat-run California has done comparatively well -  but Trump is no more responsible for that than he is for the disasters in NY, NJ etc.

Yet pretty much all the states which are doing worst since June 1st are Republican-run states

That's not a coincidence because science denial is an integral part of Republican ideology

Why pick June 1st?

Because that was around when the intitial wave subsided and there were no more excuses for not putting suppression strategies in place

Predictably the Republican run states refused to take the virus seriously and were worse hit

It's also down to many Republican voters living in a la la land of make believe as regards Covid because they follow Trump, who lives in a la la land of make believe as regards Covid

Wallowing in stupidity is a defining and defiant characteristic of right-wing politics

The deaths prior to June 1st don't matter because they don't suit your agenda. There were no excuses either for the charnel house that Cuomo made of New York nursing homes. No wonder you resort to aggressive insults every time.

[J70]

Kind of off topic. Very interesting moving bar chart over time showing Covid cases per state.

https://bit.ly/3matz0a

Despite everything that is known about Trump, it took a pandemic and Trump's despotic attitude to the effects of it on the elderly and the vulnerable before the polls would firmly swing towards electing Biden.

And yet the states where the elderly and vulnerable were hit worst by it were all Democrat-run. NY, NY, CT and MA.

How have those states been doing since they got to grips with getting hit hard right at the beginning when everyone was scrambling to avoid another Italy situation?

What's the excuse for all the states getting hit nine months later?

You'll need to ask their Governors that.  It's not a Democrat v Republican thing though - Democrat-run California has done comparatively well -  but Trump is no more responsible for that than he is for the disasters in NY, NJ etc.

Trump has been constantly undermining attempts to properly combat it and inform the public. He could have led a sober, serious effort to fight this (which, if he had a lick of sense, would ultimately have served him very well), but no, he thought his election chances were best served by downplaying it, calling it a hoax, fomenting right wing extremists to resist lockdowns on the threat of violence, holding rallies and flouting public health advice, politically interfering in the work of the federal agencies such as the CDC and FDA, and so on and on, anything to rile up his anti-government, anti-intellectual base.

You'd swear Cuomo and the others were afraid to lift a finger in case Big Bad Donald came for them...

Cuomo very publicly flattered, hassled and scolded Trump for weeks in his press conferences, whatever he felt necessary on the day to get the needed help from the Feds. Of all the governors, Cuomo did not hold back, either on criticizing Trump or leading the effort in his state. They made a horrible call early on in trying to preserve hospital beds with the nursing home order, and his feuding with DeBlasio is getting very tiresome and petty after all these years, but he got the outbreak under control fairly quickly after getting hit so hard so early with the virus coming in undetected from Europe through NYC. There'll be plenty to criticize him over in retrospect, as with all of the leaders in this, but continuous self-serving deceit and denial and undermining public health advice and efforts is not one of the issues. Just in the past few weeks, it looks like they are successfully addressing the re-emergence of the virus in parts of Brooklyn and Queens by imposing restrictions, rather than just wishing it all away.

[five points]

You'd swear Cuomo and the others were afraid to lift a finger in case Big Bad Donald came for them...

Cuomo very publicly flattered, hassled and scolded Trump for weeks in his press conferences, whatever he felt necessary on the day to get the needed help from the Feds. Of all the governors, Cuomo did not hold back, either on criticizing Trump or leading the effort in his state. They made a horrible call early on in trying to preserve hospital beds with the nursing home order, and his feuding with DeBlasio is getting very tiresome and petty after all these years, but he got the outbreak under control fairly quickly after getting hit so hard so early with the virus coming in undetected from Europe through NYC. There'll be plenty to criticize him over in retrospect, as with all of the leaders in this, but continuous self-serving deceit and denial and undermining public health advice and efforts is not one of the issues. Just in the past few weeks, it looks like they are successfully addressing the re-emergence of the virus in parts of Brooklyn and Queens by imposing restrictions, rather than just wishing it all away.

Ah come on, after what happened in Italy, any gobdaw would know that moving patients from nursing homes to hospitals and back without appropriate procedures was going to end very badly for those patients.

In this vein what they did in trying to pin their failures on the Donald also qualifies as"continuous self-serving deceit and denial and undermining public health advice and efforts".

[J70]

You'd swear Cuomo and the others were afraid to lift a finger in case Big Bad Donald came for them...

Cuomo very publicly flattered, hassled and scolded Trump for weeks in his press conferences, whatever he felt necessary on the day to get the needed help from the Feds. Of all the governors, Cuomo did not hold back, either on criticizing Trump or leading the effort in his state. They made a horrible call early on in trying to preserve hospital beds with the nursing home order, and his feuding with DeBlasio is getting very tiresome and petty after all these years, but he got the outbreak under control fairly quickly after getting hit so hard so early with the virus coming in undetected from Europe through NYC. There'll be plenty to criticize him over in retrospect, as with all of the leaders in this, but continuous self-serving deceit and denial and undermining public health advice and efforts is not one of the issues. Just in the past few weeks, it looks like they are successfully addressing the re-emergence of the virus in parts of Brooklyn and Queens by imposing restrictions, rather than just wishing it all away.

Ah come on, after what happened in Italy, any gobdaw would know that moving patients from nursing homes to hospitals and back without appropriate procedures was going to end very badly for those patients.

In this vein what they did in trying to pin their failures on the Donald also qualifies as"continuous self-serving deceit and denial and undermining public health advice and efforts".

They were bracing for hospitals being overrun, which they were in many in NYC. Where they fucked up was in not ensuring that the nursing homes themselves were capable of handling those patients. Cuomo and his team have to answer for that (and they're not the only ones; many other places and countries suffered the same fate). But that was a mistake in the midst of an unfolding crisis where they're scrambling and bracing for the coming tsunami. It wasn't a case of getting out there every day and screaming "nothing to see here because its an election year" like Trump effectively was. So not the same thing at all.

Biggest question IMO facing Cuomo and indeed local and national governments everywhere regarding the early stages is how prepared they were for an outbreak of this type that would place such extreme demands on emergency and ICU facilities. And if they weren't prepared, why not? If you're properly prepared, then mistakes don't get made in the midst of the unfolding crisis.

[five points]

You'd swear Cuomo and the others were afraid to lift a finger in case Big Bad Donald came for them...

Cuomo very publicly flattered, hassled and scolded Trump for weeks in his press conferences, whatever he felt necessary on the day to get the needed help from the Feds. Of all the governors, Cuomo did not hold back, either on criticizing Trump or leading the effort in his state. They made a horrible call early on in trying to preserve hospital beds with the nursing home order, and his feuding with DeBlasio is getting very tiresome and petty after all these years, but he got the outbreak under control fairly quickly after getting hit so hard so early with the virus coming in undetected from Europe through NYC. There'll be plenty to criticize him over in retrospect, as with all of the leaders in this, but continuous self-serving deceit and denial and undermining public health advice and efforts is not one of the issues. Just in the past few weeks, it looks like they are successfully addressing the re-emergence of the virus in parts of Brooklyn and Queens by imposing restrictions, rather than just wishing it all away.

Ah come on, after what happened in Italy, any gobdaw would know that moving patients from nursing homes to hospitals and back without appropriate procedures was going to end very badly for those patients.

In this vein what they did in trying to pin their failures on the Donald also qualifies as"continuous self-serving deceit and denial and undermining public health advice and efforts".

They were bracing for hospitals being overrun, which they were in many in NYC. Where they fucked up was in not ensuring that the nursing homes themselves were capable of handling those patients. Cuomo and his team have to answer for that (and they're not the only ones; many other places and countries suffered the same fate). But that was a mistake in the midst of an unfolding crisis where they're scrambling and bracing for the coming tsunami. It wasn't a case of getting out there every day and screaming "nothing to see here because its an election year" like Trump effectively was. So not the same thing at all.

Biggest question IMO facing Cuomo and indeed local and national governments everywhere regarding the early stages is how prepared they were for an outbreak of this type that would place such extreme demands on emergency and ICU facilities. And if they weren't prepared, why not? If you're properly prepared, then mistakes don't get made in the midst of the unfolding crisis.

I agree with almost all of that. And Trump was undoubtedly electioneering at a time when, if only for his own sake, he'd have been better keeping his mouth shut. But there's a world of difference between that and being blameworthy for deaths.

[Olly]

Ive been talking to loads of people recently and many Irish people are shifting towards Trump in recent days so when the Irish hand in their votes I can see us giving him nearly the maximum vote.

[sid waddell]

Kind of off topic. Very interesting moving bar chart over time showing Covid cases per state.

https://bit.ly/3matz0a

Despite everything that is known about Trump, it took a pandemic and Trump's despotic attitude to the effects of it on the elderly and the vulnerable before the polls would firmly swing towards electing Biden.

And yet the states where the elderly and vulnerable were hit worst by it were all Democrat-run. NY, NY, CT and MA.

How have those states been doing since they got to grips with getting hit hard right at the beginning when everyone was scrambling to avoid another Italy situation?

What's the excuse for all the states getting hit nine months later?

You'll need to ask their Governors that.  It's not a Democrat v Republican thing though - Democrat-run California has done comparatively well -  but Trump is no more responsible for that than he is for the disasters in NY, NJ etc.

Yet pretty much all the states which are doing worst since June 1st are Republican-run states

That's not a coincidence because science denial is an integral part of Republican ideology

Why pick June 1st?

Because that was around when the intitial wave subsided and there were no more excuses for not putting suppression strategies in place

Predictably the Republican run states refused to take the virus seriously and were worse hit

It's also down to many Republican voters living in a la la land of make believe as regards Covid because they follow Trump, who lives in a la la land of make believe as regards Covid

Wallowing in stupidity is a defining and defiant characteristic of right-wing politics

The deaths prior to June 1st don't matter because they don't suit your agenda. There were no excuses either for the charnel house that Cuomo made of New York nursing homes. No wonder you resort to aggressive insults every time.

A lot of places were hit very hard early on because this was a new disease and there was little knowledge about it, also metropolitan areas which high population densities were petri dishes for it

It was no longer the case by June 1st that we did not know what we were dealing with, we knew full well

The simple fact is Republicans have cocked a snook at the virus the whole way through, they aid it was a hoax, they said it would go away like a miracle

Democrats have tended to take it seriously

Again, it's a devastating demonstration of how rejection of science in favour of living in a fantasy reality is an integral part of Republican ideology, or should I say, whipping up many millions of people into living in a fantasy reality - because there's no way the cossetted elites like Trump and his fellow travellers in the Republican party actually believe the bullshit they spout about Covid

On the other hand Democratic politicians tend to exist in a fact-based world

This is a modern battle between flat earthers and those who know the world is round

No respect whatsoever should be paid to those who push the flat earth ideology

As Noam Chomsky says, the Republican party is the most dangerous organisation in human history

[lenny]

Ive been talking to loads of people recently and many Irish people are shifting towards Trump in recent days so when the Irish hand in their votes I can see us giving him nearly the maximum vote.

I really can't believe that, most Irish people are decent.