Shamrock Rovers Ultras

[blast05]

Let's say Tallaght Stadium has a capacity of 2,000. Rovers fill it 40 times a year

That would be the Shamrock Rovers ice hockey team or something that play 40 home games per season ?! an 80 game season ??

[dublinfella]

I dont follow. Building a stadium of 2,000 at a higher cost than building one of 10,000 is more likely to be financially viable?

You're shifting the argument. What you said originally was:

tallaght has a similar 'break even point' and the GAA proposal will bring capacity below this magic number. ergo, it would contribute less to the local area as a loss making ground so the decision was taken to carry on as planned.

So you can see why I'd like to see this study which shows that the stadium would be (and I emphasis it again) loss making because even you seem to be backing away from it now.

am i?

any stadium costs x per seat to build, a figure which increases as capacity increases. 10,000 seats is the number they felt was the compromise between building costs and potential revenues. no point making it too big as capacity would be wasted and it would have cost too much to build per seat. no point making it too small as there wouldnt be enough punters in the door for SDCC to make their money back off their cut, so would have cost too much per seat to build also.

I dont have access to private planning documents in the SDCC, but the ministers position has always been that the reduction in capacity the larger pitch would require would ensure the stadium would not be able to pay for itself at a resonable ticket price.

now deiseach, explain to the group your theory that a cheaper 10,000 seater is worse value to the taxpayer than a more expensive 2,000 seater

[dublinfella]

Let's say Tallaght Stadium has a capacity of 2,000. Rovers fill it 40 times a year

That would be the Shamrock Rovers ice hockey team or something that play 40 home games per season ?! an 80 game season ??

they have a guaranteed right to hire the park for 40 games a season whether they take it or not is another issue. 20 league games, various cup games, friendlies, reserve team, u21's, ladies. im sure it will add up.

[deiseach]

now deiseach, explain to the group your theory that a cheaper 10,000 seater is worse value to the taxpayer than a more expensive 2,000 seater

Point out where I said that. I questioned why a smaller stadium would be loss making and pointed out that clubs in England - to name but one place - get by on crowds of far less than 2,000 (and presumably they have to pay the construction costs of the ground themselves). So to move this along, I'll agree that a 10,000 capacity stadium would give a better monetary return than a 2,000 capacity stadium.

Now I'd like you to demonstrate why Tallaght seems to be uniquely incapable of making a profit, however small, from a 2,000 capacity ground.

[dublinfella]

now deiseach, explain to the group your theory that a cheaper 10,000 seater is worse value to the taxpayer than a more expensive 2,000 seater

Point out where I said that. I questioned why a smaller stadium would be loss making and pointed out that clubs in England - to name but one place - get by on crowds of far less than 2,000 (and presumably they have to pay the construction costs of the ground themselves). So to move this along, I'll agree that a 10,000 capacity stadium would give a better monetary return than a 2,000 capacity stadium.

Now I'd like you to demonstrate why Tallaght seems to be uniquely incapable of making a profit, however small, from a 2,000 capacity ground.

I strongly doubt that the conference sides you listed play in front of full houses every week. there is no stadium in that division that has a capacity of 2,000. im afraid dont see what you are arguing. Rovers would be better off with 2,000 seats because average crowds in the english conference are shite? whats the correlation?

[deiseach]

I strongly doubt that the conference sides you listed play in front of full houses every week. there is no stadium in that division that has a capacity of 2,000. im afraid dont see what you are arguing. Rovers would be better off with 2,000 seats because average crowds in the english conference are shite? whats the correlation?

No, that is not my argument. You said at the start of this that a reduced capacity stadium would be [resists urge to use bold type again] loss making. I'm saying that this is hard to believe and asked you to substantiate that assertion. I'm still waiting.

[Onlooker]

I know that this debate seems to have been going on forever and will run and run, but two points struck me that have been mentioned by the pro Rovers people, that make no sense to me.   It has been claimed that the use of the description "Junior Football" was meant to refer to under age games, but how can Ladies Football be played on the ground, as Ladies Football matches are always played on full-sized GAA pitches.   Also who is this mysterious second League of Ireland club that are likely to be playing home games in Tallaght, that John O'Donoghue has referred to.  To the best of my knowledge there is no such club.

[deiseach]

I know that this debate seems to have been going on forever and will run and run

Ach, you say it like it's a bad thing

[dublinfella]

I strongly doubt that the conference sides you listed play in front of full houses every week. there is no stadium in that division that has a capacity of 2,000. im afraid dont see what you are arguing. Rovers would be better off with 2,000 seats because average crowds in the english conference are shite? whats the correlation?

No, that is not my argument. You said at the start of this that a reduced capacity stadium would be [resists urge to use bold type again] loss making. I'm saying that this is hard to believe and asked you to substantiate that assertion. I'm still waiting.

the cost of competing the stadium as planned is x. divide that by 10,000.

the cost of demolishing the structures, removing the undersoil drainaige and foundations, redesigning the stadium, re apply for planning permission is y. divide that by 2,000.

x/10,000 is considered financially viable when the SDCC get a cut of the Rovers crowd, the ads and the rental from the stadium when the hoops arent using it. it works taking the stadium at €5m to build,  put simply at c500 per seat and at €15 a go it takes 334 games to break even on the ground

y=€15m
, which is the costing the dept put on the total redisgn it works out at €7,500 per seat, meaning it takes 5,000 games to break even.

y/2000 is considered a waste of time

[Good Relations]

Just got a phone call of a mate of mine and he told me that grants applied for by Lucan Sarsfield, Thomas Davis and St.Marks have all been turned down pending the outcome of the JR...Pressure is on TD now..

[his holiness nb]

Just got a phone call of a mate of mine and he told me that grants applied for by Lucan Sarsfield, Thomas Davis and St.Marks have all been turned down pending the outcome of the JR...Pressure is on TD now..

Well if an anonymous mate of an anti GAA, Rovers fans says so then it must be true 

If I came out with something like that Dublifella would be looking for documented proof 

[Good Relations]

If ya read the back of yesterdays Daily Mail it was in it...
No Im sure newspapers cant be saying things like that without some documented proof...

[his holiness nb]

No Im sure newspapers cant be saying things like that without some documented proof...

Of course not, sure when has the Daily Mail ever printed anything inaccurate 

[Good Relations]

Im just saying that it is a coincidence that these grants have been halted at this time....

[Deal_Me_In]

they have a guaranteed right to hire the park for 40 games a season whether they take it or not is another issue. 20 league games, various cup games, friendlies, reserve team, u21's, ladies. im sure it will add up.

Ok they have the right to hire it for 40 games but say 20 senior league, 5-6cup (max), that leaves 14 for other matches. They will not get any more than 500 at any other team than the first team, they are already (according to FAI figures) getting just over 1000 for that, so how are they going to fill the stadium 40 times a year?