Shamrock Rovers Ultras

[deiseach]

All you can seem to do is slag Shamrock Rovers off.

Oh pur-leeze. You should see the stick OWC gets. This thread is about Shamrock Rovers Ultras. To not slag them would be a crime.

Id say once we get to Tallaght (and of that Im sure) Roverws average gate will be around 5-6 thousand.

[Lone Shark]

All you can seem to do is slag Shamrock Rovers off.That doesn't say too much for you.The attendance for Rovers vs Pats last season was a sellout which amounts to about 6,500.And were not talking attendances as a whole here.I have no doubt that GAA matches have massive attendances compared to Soccer matches.The point was that if the soccer only stadium becomes a multi purpose stadium the capacity would be greatly reduced and this would not benefit Rovers as Id say once we get to Tallaght (and of that Im sure) Roverws average gate will be around 5-6 thousand.

I'd say to be honest any abuse is directed at you as much as at Rovers. I started out giving you every chance to state your case, but you have not come to the table with anything except your own opinion on matters. You believe that Rovers have 3000 people at home games, despite the fact that they are reporting otherwise to the Revenue. (Incidentally I've just scribbled down a similar note that Hardy suggested and dropped it off to revenue.ie as well) You believe that Tallaght stadium will be completed for Rovers sole benefit. You believe that ye'll have regular attendances of 5-6,000. You believe that the citizens of Tallaght want a soccer only stadium. You believe that GAA capital projects get grant aid approaching half the total cost on a regular basis.

Of course you have corroborated none of these things. You have given us no empirical data, no legal precedent or basis, no concrete examples, no numbers no details, NOTHING.

I'm not slagging Rovers - I almost feel sorry for them. One of these days the Government of the day won't be weak willed with more money than sense, and they'll realise that Rovers is a bottomless pit and that they'll always come back for more, and they'll just cut ye off.

That day will come, ye'll be stuck with a load of players who want paying, a product that very few want to pay to see and depending on ye're own members initiative and hard work to survive.

i.e. People like you.

Methinks your "Rovers will live forever" assertion can be added to your list of beliefs that I am very sceptical about. 

[deiseach]

Soccerfella

This is where I came in and where I'm leaving it for the night. Can we all leave the soccerfella / roversfella / whateveryourehavingyourselffella jibes out?

either argue your corner or dont.

when challenged to use their grey matter 90% of posters on this site revert to childish insult.

would you prefer if this was all a happy clappy agreeable brothers site? sad.

Just noticed this. Christ, I ask for people to be civil to you and you come over all offended! Sheesh.

[stephenite]

There are hundreds of municipal sport facilites across the 26.

We're talking stadiums, compare like with like. Municipal golf courses can be used by everyone, including soccer and GAA clubs for fundraising and the like. Soccer and GAA clubs can use pools and municipal community centres with gyms etc for training.

Why should a shower of bankrupts get a free stadium

[tayto]

All you can seem to do is slag Shamrock Rovers off.That doesn't say too much for you.The attendance for Rovers vs Pats last season was a sellout which amounts to about 6,500.And were not talking attendances as a whole here.I have no doubt that GAA matches have massive attendances compared to Soccer matches.The point was that if the soccer only stadium becomes a multi purpose stadium the capacity would be greatly reduced and this would not benefit Rovers as Id say once we get to Tallaght (and of that Im sure) Roverws average gate will be around 5-6 thousand.

I'd say to be honest any abuse is directed at you as much as at Rovers. I started out giving you every chance to state your case, but you have not come to the table with anything except your own opinion on matters. You believe that Rovers have 3000 people at home games, despite the fact that they are reporting otherwise to the Revenue. (Incidentally I've just scribbled down a similar note that Hardy suggested and dropped it off to revenue.ie as well) You believe that Tallaght stadium will be completed for Rovers sole benefit. You believe that ye'll have regular attendances of 5-6,000. You believe that the citizens of Tallaght want a soccer only stadium. You believe that GAA capital projects get grant aid approaching half the total cost on a regular basis.

Of course you have corroborated none of these things. You have given us no empirical data, no legal precedent or basis, no concrete examples, no numbers no details, NOTHING.

I'm not slagging Rovers - I almost feel sorry for them. One of these days the Government of the day won't be weak willed with more money than sense, and they'll realise that Rovers is a bottomless pit and that they'll always come back for more, and they'll just cut ye off.

That day will come, ye'll be stuck with a load of players who want paying, a product that very few want to pay to see and depending on ye're own members initiative and hard work to survive.

i.e. People like you.

Methinks your "Rovers will live forever" assertion can be added to your list of beliefs that I am very sceptical about. 

As ever, bang on the money LoneShark.

[lynchbhoy]

even though TD have officially rejected the offer of gaelic games in tallaght when offered

a smokescreen to pretend that Gaelic games have been included in the 'municipal' 'stadium' project (aka - free ground and stadium for rovers)
Only kids up until the age of 13 can play meaningful games on this pitch
but its not even about that
as stephenite says
its about a stadium
if the council are building a free stadium, then all sports should be included when it is being called a municipal ground.
By trying to call it a municipal ground, they are attempting to pass off the building of a free rovers/soccer ground without the public noticing.
The public have noticed.
They (council/gov) would have been better off simply stating that this was a rovers/soccer ground and end their disingenuous shennanigans.
Obv if a rovers/soccer ground is built, then rugby, tennis, GAA, cricket will all have a precedent on their side to have the council/gov give them some land and then build a stadium/facility for them.

People dont really mind so much whether rovers get a perm home, most sports fans in the GAA would welcome it.
However people dont like being lied to- in this case its not a lie of rovers making, but you are lending yourselves to this lie by peddling the same tenuous 'municipality' - but are you actually duped by the council /gov too?
I doubt it, but I can understand your resoning for it - as if I were in your shoes, I'd want rovers to get a perm home and soon too!

But the council/gov have been caught out here and it is going to be very interesting to see the courts review.
In the long run, none of this is good for sport in Ireland and certainly not for people in the locality.
I'd personally like to see a seperate GAA facility being built in Rathcoole - obv fully paid for by the council/gov as the rovers stadium.

[blast05]

Obv if a rovers/soccer ground is built, then rugby, tennis, GAA, cricket will all have a precedent on their side to have the council/gov give them some land and then build a stadium/facility for them.

Has the precedent not been set with Athlone Town ? They were given a free site from the council ..... albeit they claim they gave the council Mels Park in exchange despite Mels Park only ever having been leased. Then over the last number of years, they have been given almost 4 million in capital sports grants but fair play to them, they have contributed the proceeds of a few golf classics and gala dinners. And what do they contribute to the region - a shite team in the Ericom League First Division that attracts smaller crowds that the average junior club championship match and they also have a youth team. There was a bit of a 'Waynes World' about them in building this stadium - "If you build it, they will come"  ..... hasn't proved to be the case yet.
On a pro rata basis, Athlone GAA club should be completely funded for a couple of 5,000 seater stands

[dubnut]

Kerry Mike apologies about the F***ers post.But just as Im about this post theres that idiot Dubnut calling Rovers fans Knackers and some of you have the cheek to tell me that Im not here to debate..What do ya call them idiots that are just here to slag off Rovers fans

Good relations, I have personal experience of Rovers fans at matches as I have posted about before and felt the Rovers fans I encountered were vile vicious knackers.
Thats my personal opinion from experience, if how the Rovers fans acted make me an idiot well I suppose I cant win.
And you might also note that my contributions to threads about Rovers make up a tiny proportion of my posts so I am not "just here to slag off Rovers fans" 

[magickingdom]

good relations, two questions will you please answer them if you can. 1) how many members in rovers 400 (not trying to be smart) 2)what is the ownership structure of the new rovers ie the benificial owners..

[Lone Shark]

There are hundreds of municipal sport facilites across the 26. Pools, gyms, golf, athletics, soccer and thats before we get to the council pitches a huge number of GAA clubs utilise. There has never been an objection from one sports body about another getting funding.

Think of the ridicule the tennis guys would get if they went to court to block the badminton lads getting funding....

Dublin15man is right. If TD win, the amount wont be the issue, it will be the concept of funding individual sports (even though TD have officially rejected the offer of gaelic games in tallaght when offered) unless rivals are taken into account. Who will lose in that visa?

The simple reality is the GAA havent been rejected on principle from the ground. They have been rejected on practical grounds. They dont fit.

How does the TD position fit in to your generally correct description of how GAA clubs go about their business? They havent planned, costed or applied for f**k all. No-one iin the club is chipping at anything other than the associations coffers through funding barristers, and we have yet to recieve any explaination of who is funding them in court.

With respect, you are defending TD for being even more opportunist and parasitic than Rovers. Thomas Davis are an affront to the name of a patriot in this case.

(1) There are indeed hundreds of municipal facilities across the country. Facilities that are open to the public, and can be used by anyone who wishes to take part in the sport(s) for which it is intended. Now maybe I'm wrong, but if I, a useless runabout, wishes to play soccer in this new stadium, how do I go about it? Can I book a regular Friday night at 7pm slot for me and my mates? Because I can with every other municipal facility I know of.

(2) FOR. THE. LAST. TIME!!!! Thomas Davis are not objecting to Rovers getting funding. Thomas Davis are objecting to the ministerial interference that forced the SDCC to reverse their earlier decision. I do not like the idea of soccer clubs in this country with their track record being funded, but as a citizen in a democracy I have to take the good with the bad. Some public funds will be spent in ways that I approve, and some won't. However as a citizen of a democracy I have a right to live in something better than a banana republic where a minister from Kerry can stick his nose in to an affair not of his direct concern. Perhaps he was correct to do so, perhaps - but the initial judgement from the courts suggests the question at least needs to be asked. I wholeheartedly support TD in their efforts to keep the Kerry gombeen in check and within the law.

(3) As for the GAA planning and costing this setup, you may remember the Dublin County Board offered to develop the stadium back when Rovers were in "difficulty" to put it mildly. This was turned down. Why should they, or TD, put any funding in now when Rovers aren't?

(4) Your point about whether they fit or not remains uncertain. You, Shamrock Rovers, and the minister, maintain that architects reports do not allow for a GAA pitch and anything more than 2000 capacity. Thomas Davis have an architect's report saying otherwise. I don't know you, but I know that John O'Donoghue and Shamrock Rovers both have a track record of not being completely honest, so my initial reaction is to believe TD - but it probably requires independent corroboration.

(5) I don't know exactly who is funding TD's case, but I know this. It's not the taxpayer, so what issue is it of yours, or mine for that matter? If either the club members or some benefactor thought that this was a useful use of the club's funds, funds that were got the hard way, something a soccer club would know nothing about, then who are we to argue?

(6) Finally - where do you stand on the attendances issue? Rovers are being reported as having an average attendance of just over 1,000. Our new poster Good Relations believes it to be 3,000. Either your new, honest club is under-reporting attendances, or our new buddy is talking through his hole. Care to enlighten the rest of us on which it is?

[dublin15man]

Lone Shark,

I hope you mentioned in your email to the revenue about the salary paid to inter county managers, because I just know that all that money is declared!
You could also mention the proposed "expenses" that the GAA and GPA are asking the govt. to pay.

[Bensars]

Lone Shark,

I hope you mentioned in your email to the revenue about the salary paid to inter county managers, because I just know that all that money is declared!
You could also mention the proposed “expenses” that the GAA and GPA are asking the govt. to pay.

Every county will account for management expenses in its financial report. It is clear and transparent. It is up to the individual then like in all businesses to declare earnings.

What is not happening, is that the GAA as an organisation arent declaring that two thrids of the paying spectators were not present.

As for your second point, you want the revenue commission to investigate a proposal the government may finance themselves

You're not the sharpest tool in the Shamrock Rovers arsenal !!

[Hardy]

You could also mention the proposed "expenses" that the GAA and GPA are asking the govt. to pay.

Eh what??? Report to the government that  the government is giving grants to whomever ....?

It appears the average "Ultra" IQ level is somewhat .... infra?

[Lone Shark]

Lone Shark,

I hope you mentioned in your email to the revenue about the salary paid to inter county managers, because I just know that all that money is declared!
You could also mention the proposed "expenses" that the GAA and GPA are asking the govt. to pay.

I won't dignify the second remark with a response. Suffice it to say that I'm sure the relevant authorities are aware of this "under the table" payment players will be receiving from the Government. 

As for money paid to intercounty managers, if you were on this board for any length of time you would be aware that most posters here would be delighted if the practice could be eliminated. It's a blight on our association, and it needs stopping since it was one of the first steps towards pay for play. If you possibly have any concrete evidence of this practice I'd be delighted to report it. However most of the arguments you and Good Relations are putting forward are a bit short on that vital ingredient.

[dublin15man]

But yet you are prepared to petition the revenue to investigate rovers based upon the discrepancies between GR's boastings and someone else estimate of attendance's from foot.ie. Concrete evidence indeed.