Down Club Hurling & Football

[Hard2Listen2]

What would happen if the reserve teams were promoted?

Could see Kilcoo, Burren, bridge reserves playing in Div 2 or 3 at the expense of other clubs first teams.

Why would this be such a bad thing? If a second 20 coming to play your senior team on a Friday night doesn't force that senior team to lift their standards - nothing ever will. I don't think it would be as straightforward for promotion as people think though. Looking at the divisions laid out in message above - these are seriously competitive - a CPN/Burren/Kilcoo/Mayobridge/Clonduff  second string just might struggle in some fixtures.
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Reserve teams being promoted at the expense of smaller clubs won't do much for the development of those smaller clubs.
Not a bad idea in theory but few issues to be worked out.

[Truth hurts]

If this was passed then the teams that would be playing in these lower leagues would be closer to a thirds team but the likes of Klcoo, and Mayobridge ,. Clonduff and Burren thirds teams would beat probably all division 4 teams  but as Wobbler said the issue is whether these clubs would have the desire to play a division 4 game when their seniors had a division 1 game at the same time.

[Smurfy123]

Kilcoos thirds would walk division 4 and probably be in the hunt for promotion out of 3

[Truth hurts]

Kilcoos thirds would walk division 4 and probably be in the hunt for promotion out of 3

LOL Burren thirds would be promoted from Divison 3 then

[manwithnoplan]

Kilcoos thirds would walk division 4 and probably be in the hunt for promotion out of 3

Very doubtful they would "walk div 4" and very dismissive of a number of clubs to suggest that would be the case, never mind the suggestion that div 3 would be easy for them.

In theory the idea of these reserve teams playing div 3/4 could encourage the "smaller" clubs to improve, but as mentioned the danger is a thirds team gets promoted to div 3 ahead of one of these clubs, and that actually hinders their development. Might only be one result that decides it, but it could lead to some of the "smaller" club's players becoming a little demotivated seeing the big clubs taking their place in the division above. Generally the div 3/4 clubs are there because the commitment isn't the same as the div 1/2 clubs, the county board should focus on figuring out how that issue is resolved first before introducing the reserve teams. Many of the "smaller" clubs have very talented players but can't get the numbers of dedicated players to allow them to push on, but supporters of div 1/2 clubs would probably be ignorant of that fact.

[Mourne Red]

If 3rds were actually 3rds team and didn't have players dropping down - Neither of those teams would get top 4 in Division 4. Some shite talked this morning on here

[Smurfy123]

3rds teams are 3rds teams. You can't drop down. The rules are clear for all too see. Kilcoo thirds I believe would walk 4 and finish top half 3

[Mourne Red]

3rds teams are 3rds teams. You can't drop down. The rules are clear for all too see. Kilcoo thirds I believe would walk 4 and finish top half 3

Teconnaught, Dromara, Bosco, Finn, Kilcief - Would beat them and have beat them in challenge games over the years. Also going away to Ardglass isn't a nice trip to the seaside.

[KeyboardWman]

Burren, Kilcoo, Bridge and Clonduff 3rds would beat these teams and I know for a fact that they have in the past in challenge games before championship. But these lads would need to have a mentality change if their seniors playing at home against a team mentioned above and then they have to go away to an ardglass. Extremely tough one for lads. Crossmaglen do it well would maybe need to ask how it works there and their players mentality as it's a hard sell.

Any word on new names on down panel or even names of players that haven't come back?

[general_lee]

3rds teams are 3rds teams. You can't drop down. The rules are clear for all too see. Kilcoo thirds I believe would walk 4 and finish top half 3

Cross IIs play in Div2B Armagh and weren't a mile off reaching 2A. They are an entirely separate panel from their senior squad. You can't drop down in the middle of the season to play for the IIs. You can get called up to play for the seniors but again can't drop down once you've played a minute at senior level.

Cross also have a reserve team which played in the reserve league & championship (winning the championship final handily - no mean feat!). This is where things get confusing - I'm not entirely sure their reserves are a "3rds" team as such, especially when it comes to reserve championship. To win the final so convincingly against a strong Harps side leads me to suspect that anyone in their club (senior or intermediate panel) who didn't play championship at senior/intermediate level the previous season was eligible to play for the reserve's championship side.

Killeavy also enter a IIs side - they are a below average junior team and they also have or did have a reserve team who are fairly decent. Cullyhanna, Dromintee & Clann Éireann in recent years experimented with IIs teams, Cullyhanna probably the most successful of those but they have all since withdrawn and only field reserve sides.

[Johnnysboys]

Very doubtful they would "walk div 4" and very dismissive of a number of clubs to suggest that would be the case, never mind the suggestion that div 3 would be easy for them.

In theory the idea of these reserve teams playing div 3/4 could encourage the "smaller" clubs to improve, but as mentioned the danger is a thirds team gets promoted to div 3 ahead of one of these clubs, and that actually hinders their development. Might only be one result that decides it,

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but it could lead to some of the "smaller" club's players becoming a little demotivated seeing the big clubs taking their place in the division above.[/b] Generally the div 3/4 clubs are there because the commitment isn't the same as the div 1/2 clubs, the county board should focus on figuring out how that issue is resolved first before introducing the reserve teams. Many of the "smaller" clubs have very talented players but can't get the numbers of dedicated players to allow them to push on, but supporters of div 1/2 clubs would probably be ignorant of that fact.
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Becoming a little demotivated - well then make sure it doesn't happen.. it's not rocket science. If the division 4 clubs can't raise themselves on a Friday night to play a second string opposition from a so called big club - they need to look at themselves and ask why are they playing at all. The nature of the game is competitive - surely these "talented players" realise that and realise that in order to improve or maintain their levels they need to be seen to compete against these teams. I just believe division 4 clubs in particular are in a wee comfort zone and know they will pick up points here and there throughout the season and might have one or two challenges with teams around their level. That's why they don't improve - that's why we get very few players from division 4 who have a sustained period on the county team.
Another poster talked about Armagh leagues and missed one vital thing - Crossmaglen/Killeavy/Cullyhanna etc have won 3 junior championships between them in over 20 years of this happening. It's run correctly by the clubs and county board and for other clubs in the lower leagues - they had to up their game to compete - and they did just that. It's time we gave this a go.

[Truth hurts]

Would clubs even want to field a team there and play at the same time as their seniors? Would there be enough volunteers for scoreboard, umpires etc? This is a pipe dream and I can't see it happening but the top thirds teams in recent years are filled with top players so they would have a field day in the lower leagues.

[Truth hurts]

RIP PJ McElroy, A great of Down GAA

[manwithnoplan]

Very doubtful they would "walk div 4" and very dismissive of a number of clubs to suggest that would be the case, never mind the suggestion that div 3 would be easy for them.

In theory the idea of these reserve teams playing div 3/4 could encourage the "smaller" clubs to improve, but as mentioned the danger is a thirds team gets promoted to div 3 ahead of one of these clubs, and that actually hinders their development. Might only be one result that decides it,

Code Select Expand

but it could lead to some of the "smaller" club's players becoming a little demotivated seeing the big clubs taking their place in the division above.[/b] Generally the div 3/4 clubs are there because the commitment isn't the same as the div 1/2 clubs, the county board should focus on figuring out how that issue is resolved first before introducing the reserve teams. Many of the "smaller" clubs have very talented players but can't get the numbers of dedicated players to allow them to push on, but supporters of div 1/2 clubs would probably be ignorant of that fact.

Becoming a little demotivated - well then make sure it doesn't happen.. it's not rocket science. If the division 4 clubs can't raise themselves on a Friday night to play a second string opposition from a so called big club - they need to look at themselves and ask why are they playing at all. The nature of the game is competitive - surely these "talented players" realise that and realise that in order to improve or maintain their levels they need to be seen to compete against these teams. I just believe division 4 clubs in particular are in a wee comfort zone and know they will pick up points here and there throughout the season and might have one or two challenges with teams around their level. That's why they don't improve - that's why we get very few players from division 4 who have a sustained period on the county team.
Another poster talked about Armagh leagues and missed one vital thing - Crossmaglen/Killeavy/Cullyhanna etc have won 3 junior championships between them in over 20 years of this happening. It's run correctly by the clubs and county board and for other clubs in the lower leagues - they had to up their game to compete - and they did just that. It's time we gave this a go.
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Well win you put it so simply, that it's not rocket science when it comes to winning football matches, I look forward to all clubs in Down being equal next season. The fact some of these clubs are a sporting outlet for the majority of their senior panels, and not ultra-competitive like div 1/2 sides, would lead to struggles to field teams away to the bigger clubs if indeed their reserve teams are permitted to include players around the senior panel. Now as another poster states, ensuring the thirds panel is legitimate then yes by all means it could eventually work. We'd have to hope that clubs don't find ways around that requirement, as was the case for reserve teams for years.

And obviously the more talented and dedicated players in div 3/4 should relish it, but to assume that would apply to their entire squads is naive at best. Almost every club in div 3 or 4 has a player or two who have the ability to play at a higher level, but when it comes to having a committed squad around them to help that happen unfortunately it is not always the case.

[general_lee]

Another poster talked about Armagh leagues and missed one vital thing - Crossmaglen/Killeavy/Cullyhanna etc have won 3 junior championships between them in over 20 years of this happening. It's run correctly by the clubs and county board and for other clubs in the lower leagues - they had to up their game to compete - and they did just that. It's time we gave this a go.

False, Cross II have only won the JFC once, in 2002. Cullyhanna II reached the final in 2016.