Down Club Hurling & Football

[wobbller]

Down panel for tonight
Charlie smith ; Eoin Murdock , Niall mcparland , Gerard Collins; Pierce Laverty, Darren O'Hagan, Daniel Guinness; Caolan Mooney, Gerard McGovern ; Oran Murdock, Rory Burns; Pearse Mcpolin, Gerard McGovern, Gerard Collins; Pierce Laverty, Ronan McCarthy,Barry O'Hagan; Steven Fegan, Liam Middleton, Cory Quinn, Andrew Gilmore, Daniel McCarthy, Ross Carr, Tom close

Two Pierce Lavertys,two Gerad McGoverns, two Gerdy Collins which leaves 21 players.? Who are Pearse McPolin,Eoin Murdock,Steven Fegan,Ronan and Daniel McCarthy?

[whitegoodman]

Alright fair enough, just wondering is there consistency on here when describing different clubs attracting young players.

BTW Derryleckagh would be Saval / Burren parish no ?

No idea on The Manse but would have thought it falls into a Newry parish as well if we are looking to be black and white about things on here.

[Truth hurts]

Alright fair enough, just wondering is there consistency on here when describing different clubs attracting young players.

BTW Derryleckagh would be Saval / Burren parish no ?

No idea on The Manse but would have thought it falls into a Newry parish as well if we are looking to be black and white about things on here.

Derryleckagh is in the Saval parish WGM

WGM would Burren not refuse to take players from the point for a start and tell them that their club is CPN. Surely it is becoming apparent that you have too many players and people are getting pissed off.
And yes Castlewellan , Bryansford and RGU are noted for the poaching while Loughinisland would be like the Burren of East Down, if you stopped for ice cream in Brennans you are entitled to represent The Blues.

[thewobbler]

Derryleckagh? I suppose if you mean the Cove, then probably. If you mean 1km closer to Ballyholland, then no. Almost every child from south of the playing fields goes to Ballyholland PS.

The parish distinction is never going to work for Ballyholland. We don't have a chapel and therefore a parish per se. In this regard, are as much Newry Parish as Newry Shamrocks are, if that's how people wish to draw lines. But here's the basic reality: the most convenient GAA club for walking or driving to from the Manse is Ballyholland.

[Truth hurts]

1.Burns
2.Murtagh.
3.McIlroy
4.Collins
5.McCormick
6.McParland
7.McGeough
8.Doherty
9.Connery
10.Murdock
11.Close
12.McCartan
13.O'Hagan
14.Havern
15. Gilmore

[whitegoodman]

Alright fair enough, just wondering is there consistency on here when describing different clubs attracting young players.

BTW Derryleckagh would be Saval / Burren parish no ?

No idea on The Manse but would have thought it falls into a Newry parish as well if we are looking to be black and white about things on here.

Derryleckagh is in the Saval parish WGM

WGM would Burren not refuse to take players from the point for a start and tell them that their club is CPN. Surely it is becoming apparent that you have too many players and people are getting pissed off.
And yes Castlewellan , Bryansford and RGU are noted for the poaching while Loughinisland would be like the Burren of East Down, if you stopped for ice cream in Brennans you are entitled to represent The Blues.

[whitegoodman]

Derryleckagh? I suppose if you mean the Cove, then probably. If you mean 1km closer to Ballyholland, then no. Almost every child from south of the playing fields goes to Ballyholland PS.

The parish distinction is never going to work for Ballyholland. We don't have a chapel and therefore a parish per se. In this regard, are as much Newry Parish as Newry Shamrocks are, if that's how people wish to draw lines. But here's the basic reality: the most convenient GAA club for walking or driving to from the Manse is Ballyholland.

So going forward what will be the guidelines for Newry clubs and Ballyholland.  Is it if you don't go to Ballyholland school you don't come through the gates or is it a free for all among the 3-4 clubs ?  Is there any problems with this at underage level at the moment ?  Genuine question BTW.

TH yes I will put a motion forward at the the next AGM in Burren to turn away all new kids and parents and tell them to feck off to the point.  I am sure it will be approved without a hitch.

[Truth hurts]

Derryleckagh? I suppose if you mean the Cove, then probably. If you mean 1km closer to Ballyholland, then no. Almost every child from south of the playing fields goes to Ballyholland PS.

The parish distinction is never going to work for Ballyholland. We don't have a chapel and therefore a parish per se. In this regard, are as much Newry Parish as Newry Shamrocks are, if that's how people wish to draw lines. But here's the basic reality: the most convenient GAA club for walking or driving to from the Manse is Ballyholland.

So going forward what will be the guidelines for Newry clubs and Ballyholland.  Is it if you don't go to Ballyholland school you don't come through the gates or is it a free for all among the 3-4 clubs ?  Is there any problems with this at underage level at the moment ?  Genuine question BTW.

TH yes I will put a motion forward at the the next AGM in Burren to turn away all new kids and parents and tell them to feck off to the point.  I am sure it will be approved without a hitch.

Motion: Only people who reside in Burren parish are eligible to play for Burren.

[thewobbler]

I don't know WGM.

I don't honestly have much if any issue with how Burren do their business. For now I would regard their current u20 crop as a freak occurrence, a year group when a club was blessed with a holy trinity of an exceptionally large pick, an exceptionally large number of kids who really want to play football and are happy to play "B", and an exceptionally large number of top drawer players.

Although not at the same levels of dominance, we hit something similar at u13 this year: fielding 2 full teams and the "A" team won the all county title. From what I know this is a statistical anomaly: the chances of us having 35+ kids at the one grade in yeh near future are none.

And maybe it's the same for Burren.

But my original point is getting mangled a little here. We all know how the senior team pyramid works. For a young player to push in, then someone else needs to be pushed out. Which could be an old timer, a currently established player, a player just a year or two above, or one of your direct peers. And I actually don't think it's healthy for club or a player, if there's 8-10 players coming through every year with the core faculties to be a senior club footballer. It must be the most nullifying feeling in the world to reach 18 and watch as your schoolmates immediately start playing D2 or D3 senior football, but all you can see ahead of you in your own club is a pecking order of 40-50 men.

Burren are in for a challenging few years here. Who knows, if we can hold onto our u13s, it might be us a few years later. Is it wrong though to suggest that we all try to manage this flow a little better when they're younger?

[Truth hurts]

I don't know WGM.

I don't honestly have much if any issue with how Burren do their business. For now I would regard their current u20 crop as a freak occurrence, a year group when a club was blessed with a holy trinity of an exceptionally large pick, an exceptionally large number of kids who really want to play football and are happy to play "B", and an exceptionally large number of top drawer players.

Although not at the same levels of dominance, we hit something similar at u13 this year: fielding 2 full teams and the "A" team won the all county title. From what I know this is a statistical anomaly: the chances of us having 35+ kids at the one grade in yeh near future are none.

And maybe it's the same for Burren.

But my original point is getting mangled a little here. We all know how the senior team pyramid works. For a young player to push in, then someone else needs to be pushed out. Which could be an old timer, a currently established player, a player just a year or two above, or one of your direct peers. And I actually don't think it's healthy for club or a player, if there's 8-10 players coming through every year with the core faculties to be a senior club footballer. It must be the most nullifying feeling in the world to reach 18 and watch as your schoolmates immediately start playing D2 or D3 senior football, but all you can see ahead of you in your own club is a pecking order of 40-50 men.

Burren are in for a challenging few years here. Who knows, if we can hold onto our u13s, it might be us a few years later. Is it wrong though to suggest that we all try to manage this flow a little better when they're younger?

How would you manage the flow better? I am sure that the Newry folk are coming to Ballyholland as they have great facilities and a good community.  Should the county board enforce that players need to play in their parish or does that create hassle?

[whitegoodman]

Has it not always been the case that any of the established teams would struggle to get more than 3 players through each year to the senior team.  Is it not the nature of things you have to be a very good minor to make it to the senior teams of Kilcoo, Burren or Clonduff etc ?

Even when Burren had mediocre teams in the early 2000's 80% of the minor teams coming through drifted to seconds/thirds teams and some even just drifted away from football altogether.  I would suggest that is the case throughout the county.

As you say this was a freak under 20 team so I dont think it will be an issue in the Burren club going forward.

On the issue of managing the flow ( if there is an issue ), should it not be on the likes of CPN, Saval or whoever else feels hard done by to do something about it rather than Burren closing its gates or the county board getting involved.  Should it not be up to those clubs to make themselves a more attractive proposition to kids and children.  I know CPN are working on it but their facilities are amongst the worst in the top division and have been for 20 years.

[thewobbler]

That's the hard part TH. There's no perfect answer, nothing even close. And the strategy would have to be malleable to allow for (boy) birth rates in the parish. But as a general rule of thumb, if your key feeder primary school(s), have an abundance of boys at p1 and p2, then do not actively seek boys from other schools, and be honest with parents from those schools should they enquire.

As a concept it's difficult to take onboard. But the one thing we all need from sport, apart from referees, is competition. And the more evenly that boys are distributed around clubs, the more competitive things become.

[Nanderson]

1.Burns
2.Murtagh.
3.McIlroy
4.Collins
5.McCormick
6.McParland
7.McGeough
8.Doherty
9.Connery
10.Murdock
11.Close
12.McCartan
13.O'Hagan
14.Havern
15. Gilmore

Think i've counted 9 players making their senior debut

[Truth hurts]

Has it not always been the case that any of the established teams would struggle to get more than 3 players through each year to the senior team.  Is it not the nature of things you have to be a very good minor to make it to the senior teams of Kilcoo, Burren or Clonduff etc ?

Even when Burren had mediocre teams in the early 2000's 80% of the minor teams coming through drifted to seconds/thirds teams and some even just drifted away from football altogether.  I would suggest that is the case throughout the county.

As you say this was a freak under 20 team so I dont think it will be an issue in the Burren club going forward.

On the issue of managing the flow ( if there is an issue ), should it not be on the likes of CPN, Saval or whoever else feels hard done by to do something about it rather than Burren closing its gates or the county board getting involved.  Should it not be up to those clubs to make themselves a more attractive proposition to kids and children.  I know CPN are working on it but their facilities are amongst the worst in the top division and have been for 20 years.

Thats South Down snobbery right there lol Are Warrenpoint not developing land for new facilities, Saval some of the best facilities in Down.

[manwithnoplan]

Well, Burren takes players from the Point, Rostrevor, Newry, Saval, and Mayobridge.
Ballyholland now is taking a lot from Newry and taking players who would have been traditionally playing for the 3 Newry town teams.
Mayobridge would always have  Saval and Drumgath parish players.
Clonduff would take from Drumgath and Rostrevor.
An Riocht would take anyone with a mourne accent ffs
Glenn takes players from Saval, Pontzpass, Newry etc, and anyone who has ever attended Dromintine Sunday.
Annaclone: If you play for Aghaderg then the Clone thinks that they can poach you.
Tullylish: Their scheme to try and win an u15 plate this year is enough for me. Probably the biggest embarrassment in Down GAA this century so far and we have had a lot.

Do you want me to go on

Castlewellan take players from the Finn,
Downpatrick take players from Bright, Ardglass, Saul
Saul take players from Kilclief
Bredagh take players from Antrim Belfast clubs
Bryansford take players from Dundrum
Dundrum took players from Ballykilnar

Let's not get on like its a South Down clubs issue like some posters are trying to make out

Surely the trend over the last number of years has been the Finn taking players from Castlewellan...