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Any word of the dates + venues for the JFC semi finals yet?  I know it's supposed to be the wknd of 28th-30thSep. Maybe a double header on the Sunday in Newcastle like last year?

thanks for the link lads, it was interesting to hear the 'impartial' commentating on midwest radio.  Dont think them boys liked the ref too much!

anyone got a link to a Connacht radio station with coverage of the Down v Mayo match?

anyone got a link to a Connacht radio station with coverage of the Down v Mayo match?

cant get the destination newry coverage, anyone any links to a Connacht radio station playing the match?

The original proposal took each league and they just separated clubs for each division based on League position. 1st to 3a, 2nd to 3b, 3rd to 3a, 4th to 3b etc. Just goes to show how lazy a proposal it was!

Agreed, Lazy indeed! Hopefully we will get some feedback on the forum tonight on how the meeting went.

[County's Latest Proposals to be voted on at the next County Board meeting.]

County's Latest Proposals to be voted on at the next County Board meeting.



Proposal for re-structuring of Division 3 and the doing away of Division 4

3A                       3B
Ballymartin          Drumgath
Tullylish           Kilclief
Carryduff           Darragh Cross
St John Bosco    Glasdrumman
Glenn            Atticall
Ardglass          St John's
Dundrum           Mitchel's
Saul            Drumaness
Bredagh            Dromara
St Paul's               Bright
Teconnaught       St Michaels
Aghaderg             Aughlisnafin
Ballykinlar   
   

In 2012 there would be no Division 4 but rather a Division 3a and 3B this would be an honest attempt to assist those smaller Clubs with more regional based fixtures which would have hopefully the two fold purpose of cutting down travel costs but in turn maximising home gates. These leagues include Kilclief, Carryduff and Tullylish but in 2012 only one of these teams will be still in Division 3 and thus there will need to be adjustment once the final permutations are known, we are asking that you support this in principle.

The two top teams in 3A and 3B would meet in Semi Finals with the top two teams then gaining promotion to Division 2.
There would be no relegation and as such would stop the yo yo effect of some teams between Division 3 and 4, we need to open the opportunity to people to play in Division 2, this gives Clubs the opportunity to grasp that chance to play in Division 2 and a high level of senior football for a season as opposed to getting one game in a Senior Championship as an amalgamation.

the new propasals are nonsense, they will not aide down football in any way. If they go ahead there will be so many more non event games at the end of the season as there is no relegation and also it will leave it that teams at the top will benefit playing teams at the bottom later in the season so the fixture layout will majorly benifit some promotion chasing teams . Also if a div 4 team is good enough they will get to div 3 in 2 years which is possible under the current format. I predict alot of the east down teams going for this proposal as it will benifit them as that league will be easier if its geographically based.

First of all ,I would imagine that the leagues will be seeded on current league position,and then consider convenient geographical location.There was no proposal to go East and South Down.Div 4 and Div 3 this year both had a number of non-played or "dead rubber" games.None of these occurred in the first half of the season.
If the league is split after 1 round of fixtures,then every team in Div 3 will have end of season games against roughly equal standard opposition.This will test the top teams,and prepare them for Div 2,and give the bottom teams something to fight for at the end of season.The extra incentive for all teams,could be that final league position,will determine seeding for 2013,league and championship.Therefore every team is likely to play the full season out-which didn't occur this year.

I imagine,that the goals of the county board are to revitalise football in both lower leagues,particularly for those at the bottom of Div 4.And also to try to ensure ambitious,potential county footballers are given a better opportunity to develop  IN THEIR OWN CLUB,and perhaps eventually see more county players emerge from lower league clubs(as happens in other counties).In the absence of any better proposals,to achieve those  goals,I feel clubs should back these proposals for the good of Down football

You need to do better research. Two of the main reasons given for the change are cutting travel costs and maxamising game attendance so it will be based geographically. As for your point about county players improving, it has no basis. A county standard player will shine in div 4 and 3 with the current set up, as proven by kevin anderson, mc comiskey, harrison  and more lately miskelly . The reason there are not more county standard players in division 3 and 4 is the bad youth set ups and poor player development techniques of these teams. The youth structures need changed to bring a better standard of player through.

Stiff Breeze i have quoted the original post on this forum about the Div3/4 restucturing which shows the make up of the 2 sections. I think they are supposed to be geographical but are confusing to say the least! eg. Ballymartin Section A, Glassdrumman+Atticall Section B, Bosco(A) - Mitchels (B), Ardglass(A) - Bright(B) etc. 

Ah well, hopefully the proposals dont get approved tonight + all this discussion will be immaterial!

The reason we have done so well in the connolly cup is, we are the only intermediate club that regulary took part in it. (bar dundrum for a couple of years). Most of them years we were in the playoffs for promotion in div 3, so no disrespect to ballykinlar, bright etc we were way too good for them. Personally, I would have pulled out of, it cost us dearly over the years through suspensions and injuries. Unfortunately for us, due to immigration etc we are nowhere near as strong as 3 or 4 years ago and we are probably a lot closer to junior football at present than a competitive intermediate team.
I may have picked up the shield cup idea wrongly. I was under the impression it was proposed for all 4 divisions which I would disagree with, as there is relegation in the first 3 divisions. If it is just for div 4 I would wholeheartedly agree with it, Ardglass spent many a year in div 4 and most of them in the bottom half, so a shield would be a good idea in div 4 only.

Agree totally,Ardtole.This Shield suggestion is only necessary in the lowest division.The top 2 divisions should remain the same.

Agreed  , the lowest division only, whatever it may be after the meeting next week.

The acfl 1,2,3,4 are adult leagues. It is all about promotion and relegation, introducing a shield for the bottom half of the divisions is bullshit. Thats alright to keep the u10s interested and let them all go home with a medal. A shield cup for finishing in the bottom half of the league is patronising and any self respecting footballer would be embarrassed to win it.

Ardtole i find your outright dismissal of the 'Shield' idea patronising to say the least, in my opinion the idea of a chance to win any sort of silverwear at all should be embraced by any player of any age or standard. Indeed the senior players of your own club have demonstrated this with their exemplary record in the Connolly Cup. At the risk of sounding pedantic, the East Down Reserve League is also an adult league where this year the 'Cup' + 'Shield format were in operation after 1 round of games.
If anyone looks through my posts on this topic they will realise i'm not on here championing the County Board's proposals, just engaging in some debate in how they can be modified + improved upon!
I would be happy enough for the 4 divisions to stay as they are, but(correct me if i'm wrong) unfortunately with delegates from all clubs in all 4 divisions voting on the proposals Re-Div3/4 restructuring, it is more likely (in my opinion) that some version of it will be pushed through. If it was just the delegates representing Div3+4 clubs voting on their own future set up i'm sure at least 80% would vote for the current set up to be retained.
I have said all i'm going to say on this topic now and await with interest the outcome of the vote on all the proposals, hopefully they can keep most clubs happy!

I hope they leave things the way they are. We have had a couple of years restructuring to get the leagues the way they are. ie 10 teams in 1 & 2, 12 in 3 and 11 in 4. All teams have found their genuine level, just run with it I say.

Surely the way this years Div 3 has dragged on,should be avoided in the future.Ardtole you expressed reservations about this on many occasions,and at the earliest the div 3 final will be on nov 27th,with tullylish/carryduff having had no football for a month.The new system,which should definitely include a specific cut-off date for league fixtures,will prevent this scenario in the future.
Also having sampled div 2,3,4 over the years under various formats,I would disagree with those that say there is no problem with Div 4.There were a number of unplayed games in the second half of the league.With the current 11 teams ,you are basically condemning a number of erstwhile div 3 standard teams to playing most of their games against weaker opposition.The way that Teconnaught,and St Pauls for example appear to have deteriorated under this system,is regrettable.
DF's assertion that basically Div 4 clubs have got themselves into that league on the basis of poor administration or organisation,is unfair to clubs like Drumaness,Saul,Bredagh for example,who would vigorously challenge that assertion.
One of the main reasons clubs are in Div 4,is because of "tradition".In the same way as success breeds success,failure can breed failure,as the club's youth have little to aspire to ,when they see their club playing in Div 4.As a result many good players in these clubs don't develop,or transfer to more successful neighbouring clubs (Ballykinlar,Saul,Drumaness,Aghaderg,Teconnaught and Dundrum have all suffered this in recent years).
The county board's well thought out,and objective recommendations effectively promotes 11 teams,and gives them a leg up.If this goes through it would be interesting to see how clubs like Ballykinlar and Aughlisnafin respond to the challenge.If it is the disaster that some predict,it is very easy to revert to the old system.Because we are dealing with the bottom tier,there are no major negative implications of putting this system to the test.
I feel that we should go for this but a mid-season split would allay concerns,about too many mismatches.The split would allow all clubs the opportunity to play most of their games,particularly at end of season,against similar standard teams.
Any lower league club who doesn't embrace this opportunity,are selling their current and future PLAYERS short,in my opinion.

6thSam - After reading over all your different arguments im starting to come round to your way of thinking (slightly) but there would definitely have to be a split after 1 series of games with possibly the bottom 5 in each section forming a new grouping to play for a Division 3 'Shield' with the top 4 playing semi's + a final. Trying to reach the top4 in this new 10 team section would help motivate teams + maintain interest after all their early season drubbings!
Like u suggested it could be run on a 2 or 3 year trial period and if it turns out to be a disaster, the bottom 8,9,10, or 11 teams could be let go to form a new Division 4 again.
Would still prefer my version of the proposals but it doesnt look like i have much support
Enjoyed the debate tho.

I agree Ardtole but unfortunately i think keeping Paul in Div3 is a small part of the Co.Board's agenda with the restructuring of Div3+4.

That's right, and they did the thinking between when they killed JFK and faked putting a man on the moon.


If you genuinely believe the county board consider Division 3 football as acceptable, but Division 4 football as unnacceptable for an established county player - to the point that they'd urgently reshape the entire league structures to stop it happening - then you must be on a rapid descent to madness.


The simple truth is that just like all the recent commenters on here, they just want to see some balance in Down football, and for now anyway, this is one idea they're flying with.

Lol! Sorry Wobbler when i said 'small' i should have said very very very very small, right at the very back of maybe even 1 county board member's mind! Ur prob right about the the rapid descent to madness tho! 

You cant have your first reason for restructuring the leagues because Paul McCommiskey will be playing div 4 football. That is ridiculous. Dundrum and McCommiskey were not good enough for div 3 this season and that is why they are in div 4. If they are as good as you suggest, they will win div 4 next year and earn their right to be back in div 3 but I wouldnt bet on it either to be honest.

I agree Ardtole but unfortunately i think keeping Paul in Div3 is a small part of the Co.Board's agenda with the restructuring of Div3+4. I'm merely trying to suggest a viable alternative to their farcical proposals with the inevitable monumental mismatches Re Div3. I have no issue with their proposals for a new championship format at all.

[Part of the reason these clubs continue to struggle is that their players are deprived of glamour football,and their youth therefore develop little enthusiasm, ambition or self belief.A talented player who happens to be born into one of these clubs stands little chance of county recognition.Thus we have a situation that Paul McComiskey is the only established county player to develop in Div 3 or 4 in 20 years.That's half the clubs in the county making no contribution to the county player pool.This is a situation that doesn't happen in counties like Tyrone,Cork,and Kerry (guess what they have in common).I am not on the county board,but I feel very strongly that their proposals (or a development of them) should be embraced,and if they don't work ,we can always return to the status quo.]

Down Fanatic ur proposals for a new league structure look good as well although it still leaves a very strong Bredagh team in the bottom division. I totally agree with ur proposals for the 3 championships, have fancied the idea of the round robin format for the last few years myself.
Whatever happens i think the Co.Board will try to get some stuctural changes through this winter as they (+most of the rest of us) dont want to see Paul McComiskey playing in Div 4 next year.

Very important point.I think we can't afford to have county players,or potential county players languishing in the lower leagues.
Fair play to you DF,you have obviously put alot of thought into your proposals but here are a few potental downfalls to your system.
1.Consigning  clubs like St Pauls and Bredagh to Div 5,would be disastrous for them and for the development of Gaelic football in North Down.
2.14 league games comes nowhere near Croke Park's recommendation of at least 22 games per year,and clubs are being short changed by getting only 7 home games,and no opportunity for a return fixture.This effectively further shortens a season which is only 5-6 months long anyway.
3.Round robin has proved controversial(cf Derry),and proved problematic with the ACMFC this year,with a number of games not being played.The difference between the GAA version and champions league is that right up until the last game,all games in the champions league group stages are meaningful as teams jostle for position to get favourable seeding for the knockout stages or even the Europa league 3rd spot.That is not workable in GAA.The new qualifier concept suggested by county board is innovative,and ingenious in my opinion,with all clubs guarenteed a minimum of 3 championship games.The qualifiers at AISFC level have been a breath of fresh air for many counties,including ourselves in 2010,so why not adopt the concept for our own SFC.
4.We have a responsibility to provide all our potential county players the highest standard of football possible.
5.Your proposal effectively relegates 27 clubs
6.We all have our own personal club agendas,the county board have a vested interest in trying to find a system that improves overall standards.I feel we have to respect that they are likely to be more objective,and see the "whole picture" better than members of individual clubs.
7.Most players I have spoken to are in favour of the county board proposals.


The county board proposal makes total sense to me as someone who has been involved in Divs 2,3 and 4.Perhaps an amendment involving a mid season split would get more support from the lower division clubs.Part of the reason these clubs continue to struggle is that their players are deprived of glamour football,and their youth therefore develop little enthusiasm, ambition or self belief.A talented player who happens to be born into one of these clubs stands little chance of county recognition.Thus we have a situation that Paul McComiskey is the only established county player to develop in Div 3 or 4 in 20 years.That's half the clubs in the county making no contribution to the county player pool.This is a situation that doesn't happen in counties like Tyrone,Cork,and Kerry (guess what they have in common).I am not on the county board,but I feel  very strongly that their proposals (or a development of them) should be embraced,and if they don't work ,we can always return to the status quo.

Take Aughlisnafin for example in the 6 games they played against the top 3 in Div4 this year they had an average margin of defeat of 25 pts! but in their other 14 games they had an average points difference of -4, in their proposed Div3 section next season they would have Drumaness again + 6 higher ranked teams from this years Div3. My point is the probable outcome of at least a dozen 25pts+ demoralising defeats for the Senior team wouldnt be too 'glamorous' for their onlooking youth members.
Whist i'm in agreement for the mid season split i still honestly think the amendments i suggested for the Div3/4 would be more suitable for all  involved for the following reasons in no particular order.
1 Paul McComiskey + Dundrum would still be in Div3.
2 Bredagh who were much too strong for Div4 this year would also move up to Div3.
3 Both divisions would be much more evenly balanced, with very few 30pt beatings handed out!
4 Each team in Div3+4 would get at least 20/21 games

Down Fanatic ur proposals for a new league structure look good as well although it still leaves a very strong Bredagh team in the bottom division. I totally agree with ur proposals for the 3 championships, have fancied the idea of the round robin format for the last few years myself.
Whatever happens i think the Co.Board will try to get some stuctural changes through this winter as they (+most of the rest of us) dont want to see Paul McComiskey playing in Div 4 next year.

Re. The new proposals for Div 3/4, i think it would be madness for the likes of Fin,Kinlar+Aghaderg etc voting this in, it would be like turkeys voting for christmas! (no offence intended) In Div 4 this yr 3rd placed Bredagh finished with a points difference of +219 while 4th placed Dromara finished on +11 There was an obvious gulf in class between the top 3 and the rest of Div 4.
A possible alternative to the new proposals would be the Top 3 in Div 4 this yr(Saul,Drumaness+Bredagh) joining this yrs Div 3 line up including Dundrum + Mitchels, thus creating a 15 team Div 3 + a more evenly matched 8 team Div 4.
Div 4 would have 3 series of matches giving all teams a minimum of 21 games with the whoever finishes on top being guarenteed promotion with 2nd +3rd playing off + the winner gaining promotion + playing in the Div 4 Final.
Div 3 would be slightly more complicated with each team playing each other once (14 games) then split into 2 sections, giving all teams a minimum of 20/21 games.
Section 1 would have the top 7 teams after the 1st series play each other 1 more time with top being guarenteed promotion to Div 2 with 2nd + 3rd playing off etc.
Section 2 would have the remaining 8 teams play each other once more with the bottom team relegated to Div 4 + the 2 above them playing off to see who joins them. These 3 teams + the 8 in Div 4 would make up the participants in the following years Junior Championship. The top 2 in this section could play off in a Div 3 Shield final, with the carrot of some silverwear helping mantain interest until the end of the season.
Any opinions especially from those board members involved with any current Div3/4 teams would be much appreciated.