At what age should underage football/hurling be competitive

[Wildweasel74]

U-14 the correct level

[Throw ball]

People have raised many valid points and it is good to hear so many agree that getting kids playing is the important thing. I appreciate that this can be difficult if you are a club low in numbers or - as is the case in my club - you have enough players to make 3 teams. As I am sure many will know some parents can prove a problem in this area too as they feel their fella should be on longer or some other fella should never get on. I always think it is a good idea for registration for each age group to include setting out the club policy on fair game time for all.

[AZOffaly]

Had to resurrect this one as I heard a doozy recently. You have to wonder sometimes. In order to spare blushes I'll refrain from naming teams.

Under 12 C championship. 11 a side with the rule being you must have at least 13 and all subs must get at least 1 half. In some Uber competitive clubs this has led to texts telling lads to give tonight a miss so team X doesn't weaken themselves too much at half time.

Anyway recent scenario, C championship 11 a side. Team B brings the bare 13. At half time the two subs come on, but something is suspicious. Turns out the mentors had asked the two subs to swap jerseys with two starters to make it appear they had made the changes.

Unbelievable Jeff.

[clonadmad]

Had to resurrect this one as I heard a doozy recently. You have to wonder sometimes. In order to spare blushes I'll refrain from naming teams.

Under 12 C championship. 11 a side with the rule being you must have at least 13 and all subs must get at least 1 half. In some Uber competitive clubs this has led to texts telling lads to give tonight a miss so team X doesn't weaken themselves too much at half time.

Anyway recent scenario, C championship 11 a side. Team B brings the bare 13. At half time the two subs come on, but something is suspicious. Turns out the mentors had asked the two subs to swap jerseys with two starters to make it appear they had made the changes.

Unbelievable Jeff.

U12 C County Semi Final

St.Marys Clonmel v Shannon Rovers

Tipp county board dealt with it well.(club thrown out of the competition,mentors banned,€1k fine)

If that's the game your talking about,both teams had the full 15 man panel.

[manfromdelmonte]

Had to resurrect this one as I heard a doozy recently. You have to wonder sometimes. In order to spare blushes I'll refrain from naming teams.

Under 12 C championship. 11 a side with the rule being you must have at least 13 and all subs must get at least 1 half. In some Uber competitive clubs this has led to texts telling lads to give tonight a miss so team X doesn't weaken themselves too much at half time.

Anyway recent scenario, C championship 11 a side. Team B brings the bare 13. At half time the two subs come on, but something is suspicious. Turns out the mentors had asked the two subs to swap jerseys with two starters to make it appear they had made the changes.

Unbelievable Jeff.

I saw a team doing that at the Feile hurling in June
Take two lads off in first half (as per the rules)
they come back on at half time with different jerseys, despite them having another 7 lads on the line

[Maiden1]

The thing that drives me crazy at u8 or u10 blitzes is that the manager a lot of time seem to think they must win at all cost or they will be shamed in the parish forever.  Not only do some of the kids rarely get on but the one or two dig hairy lads for that grade who can beat the whole other team or there own are given free licence to do that.  Most of the other young fellas are standing around getting cold and have gained nothing at all from coming and the good ones are getting really bad habits that is going to be hard to correct when they get older.

If every team was given a random coloured jersey at an u8 blitz and I walked in without knowing which teams where which I could almost certainly tell within 5 minutes which team was Kilcoo.  They aren't any stronger than anyone else at that grade but they are already getting the young fellas to play as a team, look up, pass, move etc.  They may even be losing matches at that grade because of this team first mentality but winning big time in the long run as all their players are involved in the game, improving and learning the correct way to play.

[DuffleKing]

Clubs that take 18 to 9 aside blitzes are equally as culpable in stunting player development. They should be fielding 2 teams and giving them all the maximum amount of game time

[johnnycool]

The thing that drives me crazy at u8 or u10 blitzes is that the manager a lot of time seem to think they must win at all cost or they will be shamed in the parish forever.  Not only do some of the kids rarely get on but the one or two dig hairy lads for that grade who can beat the whole other team or there own are given free licence to do that.  Most of the other young fellas are standing around getting cold and have gained nothing at all from coming and the good ones are getting really bad habits that is going to be hard to correct when they get older.

If every team was given a random coloured jersey at an u8 blitz and I walked in without knowing which teams where which I could almost certainly tell within 5 minutes which team was Kilcoo.  They aren't any stronger than anyone else at that grade but they are already getting the young fellas to play as a team, look up, pass, move etc.  They may even be losing matches at that grade because of this team first mentality but winning big time in the long run as all their players are involved in the game, improving and learning the correct way to play.

Some clubs in Down are mental at times.

I was down at the Croke Park open day for U12's last year where in Down each club is allowed 5 kids and they all get a run out on the pitch. The Down coaching staff normally put bibs on four clubs so that there's a 10 aside game across the width of Croke Park. This one club, the parents were roaring and shouting at the kids as if it was an AI final.
The same club were playing an U12 league cup semi-final (type of thing) where it was to be 13 aside, but if you hadn't numbers both teams had to play 11 aside. they'd 14 or 15 kids stripped out but were insisting on playing 11 aside. The lad coordinating the event made them play 13 and got a dig in his ribs with a hurl for his troubles.

These are the reasons U12 and down must remain go-games and it's nothing to do with the behaviour of the kids who are inherently competitive anyway and that's a good thing.

We'd a lad taking our U12's who was looking to cancel fixtures because some of his best players were away to the Gaeltacht. He wasn't allowed as he'd good numbers to make up the difference, but his parting line to me was that if we loose it would be my fault. My response to him needs a few asterisks plus the lads won anyway but that wasn't the point.
I get the distinct impression that some coaches feel that getting beat reflects badly on them where in some instances its actually the opposite.

Swapping jerseys on young lads in Feile and the likes is beyond the pale all the same, but the kids shouldn't be punished by throwing them out of competitions. Certainly ban the mentors and fine the club as a deterrent.

[Rudi]

Clubs that take 18 to 9 aside blitzes are equally as culpable in stunting player development. They should be fielding 2 teams and giving them all the maximum amount of game time

That's not always possible, the opposition you play might only have 9-16 lads. I'm in charge of an U-10 team with 16 players. I have used u9 players to supplement numbers in order to get 2 teams out. How many U9 players I require depends upon parents texting back within the allowed time frame, something the majority of parents could not give a shit about. Its a thankless job, the kids are great, parents are too busy to cop on to the hassle not texting back creates. Have a game that will involve 22 players this weekend, only after finding out a soccer game involving most of the lads is on around the same time, hence the reason I ain't getting the volume of texts I anticipated. I sent the text to soccer coaches about this game 1 month ago and did not get any feed back about a conflicting game.

Last games were 9 a side with 2 teams, 30 lads turned up, all got plenty of game time. 12 lads standing around acting the maggot ,while trying to coach a team is no good either.

Tis not easy, don't know if I will be arsed next year.

[manfromdelmonte]

Teams not rotating players around the field to play in different positions always annoyed me at U8 and U10
Sure, leave the good lad in midfield all day... How would any other young lad benefit from playing there.

[bigarsedkeeper]

The thing that drives me crazy at u8 or u10 blitzes is that the manager a lot of time seem to think they must win at all cost or they will be shamed in the parish forever.  Not only do some of the kids rarely get on but the one or two dig hairy lads for that grade who can beat the whole other team or there own are given free licence to do that.  Most of the other young fellas are standing around getting cold and have gained nothing at all from coming and the good ones are getting really bad habits that is going to be hard to correct when they get older.

If every team was given a random coloured jersey at an u8 blitz and I walked in without knowing which teams where which I could almost certainly tell within 5 minutes which team was Kilcoo.  They aren't any stronger than anyone else at that grade but they are already getting the young fellas to play as a team, look up, pass, move etc.  They may even be losing matches at that grade because of this team first mentality but winning big time in the long run as all their players are involved in the game, improving and learning the correct way to play.

100% agree with this. In our club we mostly play small non competitive blitzes/games throughout the year for 8s especially but got invited to a couple of tournaments with cups at the end of the year. Needless to say normal enough fellas lost their minds on the sideline. Managers telling lads to take players out, managers not making any subs, wee lads and girls upset with not getting playing, parents losing their shit because their lad didn't play every minute and men challenging refs decisions. Don't agree with it all.

I have helped out at the hurling this year too and it's completely different.

On Kilcoo - say their U8s and they are brilliantly coached. Although our lads kept with them it was the way they played with the ball that stood out. Conor Laverty is a fantastic coach

[Sweeper 123]

For me the Question is when do you play younger players from a different age group , who is getting plenty of game time, over someone of the correct age , who is just not as good as them? Just so you can win

[Itchy]

For me the Question is when do you play younger players from a different age group , who is getting plenty of game time, over someone of the correct age , who is just not as good as them? Just so you can win

Answer = never at underage

If you do you are incredibly short sighted.

[thebackbar1]

For me the question is do you want to win underage titles or bring as many players through to adult level as possible

[Itchy]

For me the question is do you want to win underage titles or bring as many players through to adult level as possible

Or strike a balance between both. Its an age old question. Try to be in the middle and fair but its a tough job sometimes.