Donegal vs Armagh Ulster Championship 2022

[David McKeown]

True but the whistle had gone by that stage. The Armagh players didn't go to celebrate either as they immediately went to remonstrate with Deegan. In essence I think the umpires had played to the whistle and stopped

[Milltown Row2]

Not that it likely would have mattered in the end but it's a joke that Deegan could see a foul there, would love to hear his reasoning on what he saw from a mile away.

Do you really think him standing any closer would have made a difference?

Not criticising him for his positioning in anyway, Usain Bolt couldnt keep up with a football being kicked long. But how he was able to call a foul l don't know

Oisin was able to see it better 100 meters away sure

[thewobbler]

Not that it likely would have mattered in the end but it's a joke that Deegan could see a foul there, would love to hear his reasoning on what he saw from a mile away.

Do you really think him standing any closer would have made a difference?

Not criticising him for his positioning in anyway, Usain Bolt couldnt keep up with a football being kicked long. But how he was able to call a foul l don't know

Oisin was able to see it better 100 meters away sure

Oisin is the premier pundit on TV but really he shouldn't be analysing incidents involving his nephew, playing for his county.

[balladmaker]

Don't see any charging from Rian.
Donegal keeper didn't have control of the ball so no foul committed in taking ball from keeper as he didn't have it under his control.
Only potentially unclear action I can see is the delivery of the ball to the net, was it a fisted pass to the net by Rian or a mid-air fist ... if the latter, goal should have stood.
Either way, ref couldn't have had a clue what was going on.

[Milltown Row2]

Don't see any charging from Rian.
Donegal keeper didn't have control of the ball so no foul committed in taking ball from keeper as he didn't have it under his control.
Only potentially unclear action I can see is the delivery of the ball to the net, was it a fisted pass to the net by Rian or a mid-air fist ... if the latter, goal should have stood.
Either way, ref couldn't have had a clue what was going on.

Keeper had it in his hands, what sort of control are you looking for? in hands tight to chest?

[Milltown Row2]

Not that it likely would have mattered in the end but it's a joke that Deegan could see a foul there, would love to hear his reasoning on what he saw from a mile away.

Do you really think him standing any closer would have made a difference?

Not criticising him for his positioning in anyway, Usain Bolt couldnt keep up with a football being kicked long. But how he was able to call a foul l don't know

Watch it again, he's less than a meter from the 21 when he blew the whistle, how close would you like him to be? Watched it there again also, the forward actually lost the ball and fell into the keeper in the small square, the keeper had it in his hands also, the ball is pulled or ripped out of his hands, but think the ref blew even before that..

I don't think had it been the other way round Armagh ones would have been complaining

[balladmaker]

Don't see any charging from Rian.
Donegal keeper didn't have control of the ball so no foul committed in taking ball from keeper as he didn't have it under his control.
Only potentially unclear action I can see is the delivery of the ball to the net, was it a fisted pass to the net by Rian or a mid-air fist ... if the latter, goal should have stood.
Either way, ref couldn't have had a clue what was going on.

Keeper had it in his hands, what sort of control are you looking for? in hands tight to chest?

Had it in his hands loosely and dropped it i.e. lost control of the ball.  At that stage, it's open to anyone to go for it.

[Milltown Row2]

Don't see any charging from Rian.
Donegal keeper didn't have control of the ball so no foul committed in taking ball from keeper as he didn't have it under his control.
Only potentially unclear action I can see is the delivery of the ball to the net, was it a fisted pass to the net by Rian or a mid-air fist ... if the latter, goal should have stood.
Either way, ref couldn't have had a clue what was going on.

Keeper had it in his hands, what sort of control are you looking for? in hands tight to chest?

Had it in his hands loosely and dropped it i.e. lost control of the ball.  At that stage, it's open to anyone to go for it.

He didn't drop it though, Ive watched it and stopped it at that point, ball clean and safe in hands then Armagh lads pulls it out of his hands, he doesn't palm it out which would be ok.

Again I think the ref blows before that even

[Dunsilly King]

I've watched a good few times as well MR2 and I agree with you. The keeper had the ball in his hands, he didn't drop it, and the ref had blow before that point.

[naka]

Genuinely as an armagh man watching the game live  in ballybofey  and actuallyclose to that end of the ground I thought it was a free out so I don't see the angst over it.

Armagh should be more concerned at the inept performance on the pitch and on the side line .
We were bullied across the pitch and in reality could have been beaten out the gate by half time.

[APM]

Genuinely as an armagh man watching the game live  in ballybofey  and actuallyclose to that end of the ground I thought it was a free out so I don't see the angst over it.

Armagh should be more concerned at the inept performance on the pitch and on the side line .
We were bullied across the pitch and in reality could have been beaten out the gate by half time.

Agreed,
I cannot understand the fuss over the goal - It might have kick-started a recovery but I doubt it. Armagh only played with intensity for 10 minutes at the start of the second half and didn't even manage to score a single point during that period of pressure. It was a 7 point hammering.

Truth be told, Armagh scoring has been on a downward trajectory from the first two league games and they are back to the kind of slow approach play and caution that we seen pre-2021. 

[yellowcard]

Am I the  only person in Ireland who construed this as charging?

O'Neill had his head down and was burrowing into the keeper. If he had the ball, it was charging. If not, it was an some special kind of illegal move that you rarely see, along the lines of tackling with the head.

It's a free 99/100 and Martin Sludden would never make that same  call again.

What point do you think he's charging?  To me he seems to catch the ball, turn, fall and then try and get back up, drop the ball and then try and pick it up. Yes he's leaving forward but that's from falling and from bending to lift the ball. I genuinely don't see a charge. I definitely don't think it's given as a foul any more than 50/50.

Anyway I think the debate shows it ambiguous enough, so I'll go back to at least it probably didn't matter.

Around the 30 second mark on this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/gaelic-games/61207999

His head is down in Patton's midriff for a couple of seconds. I've absolutely no idea who had possession of the ball during those seconds. It probably switched a coupon of times. But whether head down with the ball, head down without the ball, I would make it the most obvious call among a dozen indecipherables.

That well known Armagh supporter Peter Canavan stated emphatically that it was a goal. It might not have changed the result but it was a crucial juncture in the game.

FWIW I have watched it umpteen times in slow motion and I still can't decide if it is a goal or not so I don't think Deegan can be held at fault here as 9/10 referees would err on the side of caution. The probability is that he had a bit of a guess at it but I would have some sympathy for him as it was not clear cut. If I was being critical then perhaps he should have consulted with his umpires first.

[yellowcard]

Genuinely as an armagh man watching the game live  in ballybofey  and actuallyclose to that end of the ground I thought it was a free out so I don't see the angst over it.

Armagh should be more concerned at the inept performance on the pitch and on the side line .
We were bullied across the pitch and in reality could have been beaten out the gate by half time.

Agreed,
I cannot understand the fuss over the goal - It might have kick-started a recovery but I doubt it. Armagh only played with intensity for 10 minutes at the start of the second half and didn't even manage to score a single point during that period of pressure. It was a 7 point hammering.

Truth be told, Armagh scoring has been on a downward trajectory from the first two league games and they are back to the kind of slow approach play and caution that we seen pre-2021.

We've seen it before that when Armagh have a long lead in time to matches they tend to over analyse things. Then when the players go out onto the pitch they almost seemed crippled by fear. The notable exception was when they fell well behind against Monaghan last year and then threw off the shackles after half time playing some great football in the process. When there was nothing to lose.

There is definitely a mentality that exists with Geezer teams where the absolute fear of losing exceeds the desire to win the match. The players can almost look stifled and too scared of making mistakes. 

[Armagh18]

Am I the  only person in Ireland who construed this as charging?

O'Neill had his head down and was burrowing into the keeper. If he had the ball, it was charging. If not, it was an some special kind of illegal move that you rarely see, along the lines of tackling with the head.

It's a free 99/100 and Martin Sludden would never make that same  call again.

What point do you think he's charging?  To me he seems to catch the ball, turn, fall and then try and get back up, drop the ball and then try and pick it up. Yes he's leaving forward but that's from falling and from bending to lift the ball. I genuinely don't see a charge. I definitely don't think it's given as a foul any more than 50/50.

Anyway I think the debate shows it ambiguous enough, so I'll go back to at least it probably didn't matter.

Around the 30 second mark on this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/gaelic-games/61207999

His head is down in Patton's midriff for a couple of seconds. I've absolutely no idea who had possession of the ball during those seconds. It probably switched a coupon of times. But whether head down with the ball, head down without the ball, I would make it the most obvious call among a dozen indecipherables.

That well known Armagh supporter Peter Canavan stated emphatically that it was a goal. It might not have changed the result but it was a crucial juncture in the game.

FWIW I have watched it umpteen times in slow motion and I still can't decide if it is a goal or not so I don't think Deegan can be held at fault here as 9/10 referees would err on the side of caution. The probability is that he had a bit of a guess at it but I would have some sympathy for him as it was not clear cut. If I was being critical then perhaps he should have consulted with his umpires first.

Yeah would agree with that. Anyway we didn't deserve to win and have plenty to improve on ourselves without trying to blame refs. Maybe we'd have pushed on at that stage or maybe Donegal would have upped it again and kept us at arms length, irrelevant now.

[tyroneman]

I just wonder how much in depth knowledge of the rule book do pundits and commentators actually have.

The amount of bullsh*t reasons given, since introduction, for a black card needing issued are astonishing (and continue to be uttered)

On Sunday, not 1 in the 'studio' or commentating on BBC even suggested that the free might have been for a foul under 4.8 "To wrest the ball from an opponent who has caught the ball" ..not even mentioning that as a possibility and then discounting it....