Donegal vs Armagh Ulster Championship 2022

Started by Armagh18, March 31, 2022, 10:21:31 AM

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general_lee

Quote from: J70 on April 26, 2022, 12:24:28 AM
I'm just puzzled about what the ref was supposed to do yesterday about the goal. With slowed down close-up tv footage we can't even get agreement on what actually happened: was the ball stripped out of Patton's grip?; did O'Neill foul the ball after that in putting it in the net? As someone said earlier, 99/100 refs would have made the same call.

Had he given the goal Donegal supporters and, I expect, players would be up in arms (correctly IMO) that it should have been a free out.

Some people are in cloud cuckoo land when it comes to their expectations of referees.
If Armagh had been awarded that goal I'd have considered it very, very lucky. It's hard to pick up on a clear cut foul but likewise hard to see how the goal was scored legally. It reminds me a bit of Paddy McKeevers  v Dublin in that it was a very unorthodox goal but on that occasion it stood.

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 25, 2022, 11:43:43 PM
About time half you boys took up the whistle to see what it's like. I went no further than ref U-16. Players weren't the problem, it was parents and supporters mouthing who didn't know the rules, Never seen as Many Armagh cry about the ref, give it a go to see how good you are. Donegal won fairly handy, if they were very good they wouldnt have missed so much in the first half. And the goal, the ball pulled out of the keeper hands.
You have a proper bee in your bonnet with Armagh, did someone from Armagh pork your Mrs? I have yet to see anyone say the ref cost Armagh the match. Two very obvious talking points does not equate to Armagh people crying about the ref - I think everyone on this thread, Armagh or otherwise is in agreement that Donegal were the much better side and deserved their win

Armamike

#586
Quote from: general_lee on April 26, 2022, 10:33:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 26, 2022, 12:24:28 AM
I'm just puzzled about what the ref was supposed to do yesterday about the goal. With slowed down close-up tv footage we can't even get agreement on what actually happened: was the ball stripped out of Patton's grip?; did O'Neill foul the ball after that in putting it in the net? As someone said earlier, 99/100 refs would have made the same call.

Had he given the goal Donegal supporters and, I expect, players would be up in arms (correctly IMO) that it should have been a free out.

Some people are in cloud cuckoo land when it comes to their expectations of referees.
If Armagh had been awarded that goal I'd have considered it very, very lucky. It's hard to pick up on a clear cut foul but likewise hard to see how the goal was scored legally. It reminds me a bit of Paddy McKeevers  v Dublin in that it was a very unorthodox goal but on that occasion it stood.

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 25, 2022, 11:43:43 PM
About time half you boys took up the whistle to see what it's like. I went no further than ref U-16. Players weren't the problem, it was parents and supporters mouthing who didn't know the rules, Never seen as Many Armagh cry about the ref, give it a go to see how good you are. Donegal won fairly handy, if they were very good they wouldnt have missed so much in the first half. And the goal, the ball pulled out of the keeper hands.
You have a proper bee in your bonnet with Armagh, did someone from Armagh pork your Mrs? I have yet to see anyone say the ref cost Armagh the match. Two very obvious talking points does not equate to Armagh people crying about the ref - I think everyone on this thread, Armagh or otherwise is in agreement that Donegal were the much better side and deserved their win

;D There's a few on this thread with a serious grudge against us. We've hit a raw nerve at some point. ;D
That's just, like your opinion man.

Ed Ricketts

Just to change the angle of complaining for a bit...

Donegal's second last 'point', the one that extended their lead from six to seven points as the clock hit 70 minutes, was 100% wide*. Anyone down the river end of the terrace would've been able to follow the flight of the ball and would be able to confirm this.

A classic Armagh comeback scuppered by yet more poor officiating. Definite grounds for an appeal!

*not a joke. 100% wide.
Doc would listen to any kind of nonsense and change it for you to a kind of wisdom.

David McKeown

Quote from: J70 on April 26, 2022, 12:24:28 AM
I'm just puzzled about what the ref was supposed to do yesterday about the goal. With slowed down close-up tv footage we can't even get agreement on what actually happened: was the ball stripped out of Patton's grip?; did O'Neill foul the ball after that in putting it in the net? As someone said earlier, 99/100 refs would have made the same call.

Had he given the goal Donegal supporters and, I expect, players would be up in arms (correctly IMO) that it should have been a free out.

Some people are in cloud cuckoo land when it comes to their expectations of referees.

I'm puzzled why he did what he did. What did he think the foul was?  Deegan didn't seem to indicate. The whistle certainly came well before the ball entered the net so it couldn't have been adjudged a foul. Surely the referee should be playing on unless he sees a foul. The idea he can try and pre-empt controversy is a nonsense.

I also don't think 99 out of 100 refs would have made the same call. If history has taught us anything it's that Sludden wouldn't have made it.

That said I think we all agree that it didn't stop the team who should have won from winning so in that regard it doesn't really matter other than to evaluate Deegans performance
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thewobbler

Am I the  only person in Ireland who construed this as charging?

O'Neill had his head down and was burrowing into the keeper. If he had the ball, it was charging. If not, it was an some special kind of illegal move that you rarely see, along the lines of tackling with the head.

It's a free 99/100 and Martin Sludden would never make that same  call again.

tonto1888

Quote from: general_lee on April 26, 2022, 10:33:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 26, 2022, 12:24:28 AM
I'm just puzzled about what the ref was supposed to do yesterday about the goal. With slowed down close-up tv footage we can't even get agreement on what actually happened: was the ball stripped out of Patton's grip?; did O'Neill foul the ball after that in putting it in the net? As someone said earlier, 99/100 refs would have made the same call.

Had he given the goal Donegal supporters and, I expect, players would be up in arms (correctly IMO) that it should have been a free out.

Some people are in cloud cuckoo land when it comes to their expectations of referees.
If Armagh had been awarded that goal I'd have considered it very, very lucky. It's hard to pick up on a clear cut foul but likewise hard to see how the goal was scored legally. It reminds me a bit of Paddy McKeevers  v Dublin in that it was a very unorthodox goal but on that occasion it stood.

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 25, 2022, 11:43:43 PM
About time half you boys took up the whistle to see what it's like. I went no further than ref U-16. Players weren't the problem, it was parents and supporters mouthing who didn't know the rules, Never seen as Many Armagh cry about the ref, give it a go to see how good you are. Donegal won fairly handy, if they were very good they wouldnt have missed so much in the first half. And the goal, the ball pulled out of the keeper hands.
You have a proper bee in your bonnet with Armagh, did someone from Armagh pork your Mrs? I have yet to see anyone say the ref cost Armagh the match. Two very obvious talking points does not equate to Armagh people crying about the ref - I think everyone on this thread, Armagh or otherwise is in agreement that Donegal were the much better side and deserved their win

You're giving the weasel a bit too much credit there. The poster is obviously an adolescent and won't have had a Mrs to be 'porker' as of yet

tonto1888

I have seen the disallowed goal. I can't see anything obvious as to why not was disallowed but at the same time I can't see anything obvious as to why it should have been allowed. If it was off stripping the ball from the jeers hands fair enough but there's no way Deegan could have seen it from where he was. Woukd he have been given the call by an umpire?

David McKeown

Quote from: thewobbler on April 26, 2022, 09:12:52 PM
Am I the  only person in Ireland who construed this as charging?

O'Neill had his head down and was burrowing into the keeper. If he had the ball, it was charging. If not, it was an some special kind of illegal move that you rarely see, along the lines of tackling with the head.

It's a free 99/100 and Martin Sludden would never make that same  call again.

What point do you think he's charging?  To me he seems to catch the ball, turn, fall and then try and get back up, drop the ball and then try and pick it up. Yes he's leaving forward but that's from falling and from bending to lift the ball. I genuinely don't see a charge. I definitely don't think it's given as a foul any more than 50/50.

Anyway I think the debate shows it ambiguous enough, so I'll go back to at least it probably didn't matter.
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David McKeown

Quote from: tonto1888 on April 26, 2022, 09:23:50 PM
I have seen the disallowed goal. I can't see anything obvious as to why not was disallowed but at the same time I can't see anything obvious as to why it should have been allowed. If it was off stripping the ball from the jeers hands fair enough but there's no way Deegan could have seen it from where he was. Woukd he have been given the call by an umpire?

Can the umpire make such a call? 

Surely the position has to be you allow the goal unless you see a reason not to (although in this instance the free seems to have been awarded well before the ball even touches the keepers hands). Rather than you don't allow the goal unless you see a reason to. 
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thewobbler

Quote from: David McKeown on April 26, 2022, 09:29:33 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 26, 2022, 09:12:52 PM
Am I the  only person in Ireland who construed this as charging?

O'Neill had his head down and was burrowing into the keeper. If he had the ball, it was charging. If not, it was an some special kind of illegal move that you rarely see, along the lines of tackling with the head.

It's a free 99/100 and Martin Sludden would never make that same  call again.

What point do you think he's charging?  To me he seems to catch the ball, turn, fall and then try and get back up, drop the ball and then try and pick it up. Yes he's leaving forward but that's from falling and from bending to lift the ball. I genuinely don't see a charge. I definitely don't think it's given as a foul any more than 50/50.

Anyway I think the debate shows it ambiguous enough, so I'll go back to at least it probably didn't matter.

Around the 30 second mark on this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/gaelic-games/61207999

His head is down in Patton's midriff for a couple of seconds. I've absolutely no idea who had possession of the ball during those seconds. It probably switched a coupon of times. But whether head down with the ball, head down without the ball, I would make it the most obvious call among a dozen indecipherables.

Armagh18

Not that it likely would have mattered in the end but it's a joke that Deegan could see a foul there, would love to hear his reasoning on what he saw from a mile away.

David McKeown

Quote from: thewobbler on April 26, 2022, 09:59:21 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 26, 2022, 09:29:33 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 26, 2022, 09:12:52 PM
Am I the  only person in Ireland who construed this as charging?

O'Neill had his head down and was burrowing into the keeper. If he had the ball, it was charging. If not, it was an some special kind of illegal move that you rarely see, along the lines of tackling with the head.

It's a free 99/100 and Martin Sludden would never make that same  call again.

What point do you think he's charging?  To me he seems to catch the ball, turn, fall and then try and get back up, drop the ball and then try and pick it up. Yes he's leaving forward but that's from falling and from bending to lift the ball. I genuinely don't see a charge. I definitely don't think it's given as a foul any more than 50/50.

Anyway I think the debate shows it ambiguous enough, so I'll go back to at least it probably didn't matter.

Around the 30 second mark on this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/gaelic-games/61207999

His head is down in Patton's midriff for a couple of seconds. I've absolutely no idea who had possession of the ball during those seconds. It probably switched a coupon of times. But whether head down with the ball, head down without the ball, I would make it the most obvious call among a dozen indecipherables.

Ahh ok. To me he seems to bent over trying to come up rather than charging through but I can see where you are coming from.
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thewobbler

Quote from: Armagh18 on April 26, 2022, 10:02:50 PM
Not that it likely would have mattered in the end but it's a joke that Deegan could see a foul there, would love to hear his reasoning on what he saw from a mile away.

Do you really think him standing any closer would have made a difference?

Armagh18

Quote from: thewobbler on April 26, 2022, 10:04:26 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 26, 2022, 10:02:50 PM
Not that it likely would have mattered in the end but it's a joke that Deegan could see a foul there, would love to hear his reasoning on what he saw from a mile away.

Do you really think him standing any closer would have made a difference?
Not criticising him for his positioning in anyway, Usain Bolt couldnt keep up with a football being kicked long. But how he was able to call a foul l don't know

GAABoardMod5

Umpires body language...neither went toward pointing for green flag to be raised or reaching for it.