IT'S COMING THE QUESTION IS WHEN ?
Quote from: vetoldthe on October 03, 2018, 07:06:29 PM
IT'S COMING THE QUESTION IS WHEN ?
When this era of total collapse become untenable as an amateur game! Dublin are speeding up this process. It will be the end of the old game as we know/knew it.
Quote from: vetoldthe on October 03, 2018, 07:06:29 PM
IT'S COMING THE QUESTION IS WHEN ?
Never, never, never.
f**k OFF.
If players want to be paid, play rugby or soccer.
I always ask this and nobody has ever answered me if it became pay for play , is it then a workplace , if so , how could you stop players transferring to top counties ?
Quote from: larryin89 on October 03, 2018, 08:34:54 PM
I always ask this and nobody has ever answered me if it became pay for play , is it then a workplace , if so , how could you stop players transferring to top counties ?
You couldn't.
So it would mean forming teams around the bigger population centres such as Belfast Black and Tans, Galway Sheepdogs or Fingal Ryanair Express. Except these teams would have no stadiums, no facilities, no supporters, no youth teams, and no community backing. No local or regional businesses would back them for fear of a backlash in the communities. So their only potential income streams would be multinational companies (really, how many of them would be arsed - there's no junkets without stadiums, and no exposure without TV), and TV companies, who are hardly going to fall over themselves to get involved when the Irish population are more interested in watching their counties and clubs playing.
It's never going to happen.
Quote from: larryin89 on October 03, 2018, 08:34:54 PM
I always ask this and nobody has ever answered me if it became pay for play , is it then a workplace , if so , how could you stop players transferring to top counties ?
Pay them at club level.
Quote from: larryin89 on October 03, 2018, 08:34:54 PM
I always ask this and nobody has ever answered me if it became pay for play , is it then a workplace , if so , how could you stop players transferring to top counties ?
Presumably they'd have contracts with Central GAA and part if it would be playing for your nativehicle County?
It's already happening in London and America...
Amazing that people still don't see that this is inevitable and is coming in about the next 10 years.
The only way it won't is that we have no elite form of the game and just play club.
People who generate income like the best county players get paid- that's just how the global labour economy works. GAA will eventually just catch up with what everyone else is doing.
Quote from: screenexile on October 03, 2018, 09:58:51 PM
It's already happening in London and America...
Forget the inter-county game and make the showpiece of the sport the Inter-Firm games.
Interesting...
Quote from: screenexile on October 03, 2018, 09:58:51 PM
It's already happening in London and America...
Players have been paid to play in America for 50 years. Why would it creep into Ireland now ?
Plus, bear this my mind. Same American benefactors are paying students and wannabe students to play for a summer. That's not a career. It's not professionalism.
The GAA has a serious problem in that there are a huge number of members of the association that are only in it for what money they can get out of it. There are also a huge number of egos around the country that are happy to try to pay for success for their club. Put these two trends together and you have an arms race. The cost of running clubs and counties is getting out of hand and the money is being paid out for charlatans that provide services that in many cases aren't even necessary.
In this context, why then would anyone be surprised that some players would want to be paid. But imagine wanting to be paid for playing a game - what a joke?
Quote from: thewobbler on October 03, 2018, 11:27:55 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 03, 2018, 09:58:51 PM
It's already happening in London and America...
Players have been paid to play in America for 50 years. Why would it creep into Ireland now ?
Plus, bear this my mind. Same American benefactors are paying students and wannabe students to play for a summer. That's not a career. It's not professionalism.
Moving house to pay for a team you have no attachment to for money is about as textbook a definition of professionalism as you can get.
Quote from: caprea on October 03, 2018, 10:58:23 PM
Amazing that people still don't see that this is inevitable and is coming in about the next 10 years.
The only way it won't is that we have no elite form of the game and just play club.
People who generate income like the best county players get paid- that's just how the global labour economy works. GAA will eventually just catch up with what everyone else is doing.
Especially when an organisation whose raison d'etre is this very matter not only exists but is funded by the GAA itself. It's a joke. Again the vast majority being sold down the river by the privileged few.
Quote from: APM on October 03, 2018, 11:47:46 PM
The GAA has a serious problem in that there are a huge number of members of the association that are only in it for what money they can get out of it. There are also a huge number of egos around the country that are happy to try to pay for success for their club. Put these two trends together and you have an arms race. The cost of running clubs and counties is getting out of hand and the money is being paid out for charlatans that provide services that in many cases aren't even necessary.
In this context, why then would anyone be surprised that some players would want to be paid. But imagine wanting to be paid for playing a game - what a joke?
Yes there are some managers getting paid, even if we have 32 managers at county level getting 'paid' (travel expenses, coaching staff) and phyiso's for each, though they are getting a wage not a new yacht thats still 64 getting paid, at admin level people are getting paid, but how much? would this not be easy to see? from the cleaners up to the County Sec's as far as I'm aware they are not getting a CEO wage and are there to do a job, players getting paid is rare enough if you look at the association as a whole..
Now unless you know of someone getting an extortionate amount of money for doing feck all, then to me its a job, County Sec's, school coaches, admin staff and the rest are not making a killing here... who is? Some club managers that are getting paid by clubs (or a rich clubman) to look after their senior teams that has nothing to do with Croke Park
Article on balls.ie relating to earnings of players saying.
"One GAA Player Said To Be Earning Circa €140k Per Year From Sponsorship Deals"
https://www.balls.ie/gaa/gaa-players-sponsorship-deals-387092 (https://www.balls.ie/gaa/gaa-players-sponsorship-deals-387092)
Good luck to the "Said" player.
Presumably a Dublin player?
Quote from: Rossfan on October 04, 2018, 03:57:29 PM
Good luck to the "Said" player.
Presumably a Dublin player?
This is old news, was Bernard Brogan - Why shouldn't he milk the sponsors? Im sure everyone on this board would do the same if they were in his shoes
That article is from April!
Joe scanning would be up there, UNICEF, Red Bull, Adidas. I'm sure there are a few more
Not getting paid back in the good old days was grand! Why? Because it was not all life consuming like it is today. Amateur is ok when what you do is little more than a hobby. Today's intercounty footballer especially from Division One counties are getting asked to do too much and more so asked to give up more and more.
The GAA want their Butter on both sides they want to charge professional prices for games, yet get the attraction to do it for free!
So where is the money going, can anyone actually give an answer to that? It seems people on here believe that someone is making a fortune at Croke Park..
Players striking deals with sponsors and club willing to pay silly fees to 'expert' managers (though again they are generally paid for by a backer) is ok, I've no problem with it, but a professional GAA is never going to happen unless it goes global, and that's not going to happen
Quote from: caprea on October 04, 2018, 07:18:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2018, 06:57:54 PM
a professional GAA is never going to happen
Why?
Revenue
Also the fact that most of the administration is done voluntary...
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 04, 2018, 07:30:26 PM
Quote from: caprea on October 04, 2018, 07:18:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2018, 06:57:54 PM
a professional GAA is never going to happen
Why?
Revenue
Also the fact that most of the administration is done voluntary...
Administration at what level is voluntary?
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 04, 2018, 07:30:26 PM
Quote from: caprea on October 04, 2018, 07:18:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2018, 06:57:54 PM
a professional GAA is never going to happen
Why?
Revenue
Also the fact that most of the administration is done voluntary...
You can say "revenue" but I don't understand what that's meant to mean.
You happen to know what the county game is worth to the GAA in gate receipts, tv revenue and sponsorship?
Were there not a few clubs in Dublin offering decent culchies a few quid to play for them??
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 04, 2018, 07:30:26 PM
Quote from: caprea on October 04, 2018, 07:18:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2018, 06:57:54 PM
a professional GAA is never going to happen
Why?
Revenue.
Exactly -money isn't there for it.
32 football teams and say top 16 hurling teams = 1,440 professional players who'd have to get about €70k each to make it worte their while giving up work for 10 years = about €10m on wages.
Add in managers, coaches trainers, administrators, bottle carriers, tea ladies etc probably €2m more.
Insurance,travel,....
Quote from: screenexile on October 04, 2018, 07:42:50 PM
Were there not a few clubs in Dublin offering decent culchies a few quid to play for them??
But sure that's nothing really to do with it in respect.
The best intercounty players generate income, millions a year, that's why the game will go pro in the next few years.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 04, 2018, 07:49:52 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 04, 2018, 07:30:26 PM
Quote from: caprea on October 04, 2018, 07:18:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2018, 06:57:54 PM
a professional GAA is never going to happen
Why?
Revenue.
Exactly -money isn't there for it.
32 football teams and say top 16 hurling teams = 1,440 professional players who'd have to get about €70k each to make it worte their while giving up work for 10 years = about €10m on wages.
Add in managers, coaches trainers, administrators, bottle carriers, tea ladies etc probably €2m more.
Insurance,travel,....
There won't be that many of teams. Nothing near. 10-12 teams in football.
Quote from: caprea on October 04, 2018, 07:51:43 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 04, 2018, 07:42:50 PM
Were there not a few clubs in Dublin offering decent culchies a few quid to play for them??
But sure that's nothing really to do with it in respect.
The best intercounty players generate income, millions a year, that's why the game will go pro in the next few years.
So where does that income of millions go ? And what is it being used for? Some buck eejits on here
Of course money is not there for 32 counties! The population of this country is to small (Except for Dublin). The problem is that more and more is being asked of players - especially Division One teams.
Dublin will fast track some direction sooner than we think.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2018, 07:54:28 PM
Quote from: caprea on October 04, 2018, 07:51:43 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 04, 2018, 07:42:50 PM
Were there not a few clubs in Dublin offering decent culchies a few quid to play for them??
But sure that's nothing really to do with it in respect.
The best intercounty players generate income, millions a year, that's why the game will go pro in the next few years.
So where does that income of millions go ? And what is it being used for? Some buck eejits on here
Goes to games development, improving stadia, salaries of staff.
Got to ask- if I'm the buck eejit then why am I having to explain this to you?
Quote from: caprea on October 04, 2018, 07:59:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2018, 07:54:28 PM
Quote from: caprea on October 04, 2018, 07:51:43 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 04, 2018, 07:42:50 PM
Were there not a few clubs in Dublin offering decent culchies a few quid to play for them??
But sure that's nothing really to do with it in respect.
The best intercounty players generate income, millions a year, that's why the game will go pro in the next few years.
So where does that income of millions go ? And what is it being used for? Some buck eejits on here
Goes to games development, improving stadia, salaries of staff.
Got to ask- if I'm the buck eejit then why am I having to explain this to you?
So out of all that what's left?
I am all for endorsement but only if there is a level of fair play and transparency, there is things the GAA could implement to even the financial differences and bring the association back towards the amateur organisation most of us grew up loving. Some of the ideas may seem radical but might take a bit of an overhaul and something dramatic to bring the grassroots back into the fold.
1. Player Endorsements - If Adidas want to pay Joe Canning 20k for an ad fine but it gets approved from Croke Park. The 20K goes into a pool with all other endorsements over the year and then is split evenly among 64 counties panels at the end of the year. All players sign a commitment each January that this the only way endorsements are to be done and anything outside of this is a breach of the rules resulting in suspensions.
2. Sponsorship - If AIG reckon Dublin worth 1 million a year and Simply Fruits deal is 50k a year to Armagh (dont know what actual figures just an example) fine but all 32 sponsorship deals are approved at central council and the pool of funds distributed between 32 counties. AIG still getting the big advertisement so the amounts paid wouldn't drop of.
3. Outside Managers - No club or county can have a manager/couch/trainer from outside that club/county. Will not totally eradicate the brown envelopes but will definitely reduce the mercenaries. If a club/county can not genuinely get a inside man then they make there case to the county board/Croke Park. It will encourage more underage managers in clubs/counties because they believe if they can prove themselves there is really a chance of stepping up.
4. Club Transfers - With the improving roads and transport links no transfer will be considered for adult players that are within 80 miles of the players home clubs unless like a transfer currently within in a county the club the player is leaving signs it. Any adult player is only entitled to one transfer in a lifetime thus meaning they cannot return to there own club they started with when the cash cow of the big clubs dry up or age catches up with them.( This does not apply to international transfers ).
5. America - Anyone who decides to go to play in the states for a summer cannot play club or county football in Ireland until January of the follow year. Might stop players going for the dollar for 2 months then back in September for club championship. People will argue about the students. They can still go earn there summer money but that comes at a cost with no club to fall back to. It might be harsh on some but will stop lads announcing the morning after the county is beat they are gone and wont hang around for the qualifiers.
A lot of people will probably think these are bullsh*t ideas but I just feel the whole association needs to try something different.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2018, 08:18:51 PM
Quote from: caprea on October 04, 2018, 07:59:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2018, 07:54:28 PM
Quote from: caprea on October 04, 2018, 07:51:43 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 04, 2018, 07:42:50 PM
Were there not a few clubs in Dublin offering decent culchies a few quid to play for them??
But sure that's nothing really to do with it in respect.
The best intercounty players generate income, millions a year, that's why the game will go pro in the next few years.
So where does that income of millions go ? And what is it being used for? Some buck eejits on here
Goes to games development, improving stadia, salaries of staff.
Got to ask- if I'm the buck eejit then why am I having to explain this to you?
So out of all that what's left?
If the game goes pro it will work like all other pro sport, clubs will get cash fundraise and through club subs. And the elite teams will have to raise money through gate receipts, sponsors and tv and offer the best players contracts.
The GAA are a far less important organization as they haven't as many responsibilities to run every aspect of the entire sport. County boards similarly run clubs but won't have county teams to watch out for anymore.
The most important people in GAA these days are the best intercounty players. Without them there's no full stadiums or tv deals. The organization will form in what ever direction they want it to go.
Quote from: caprea on October 04, 2018, 08:49:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2018, 08:18:51 PM
Quote from: caprea on October 04, 2018, 07:59:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2018, 07:54:28 PM
Quote from: caprea on October 04, 2018, 07:51:43 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 04, 2018, 07:42:50 PM
Were there not a few clubs in Dublin offering decent culchies a few quid to play for them??
But sure that's nothing really to do with it in respect.
The best intercounty players generate income, millions a year, that's why the game will go pro in the next few years.
So where does that income of millions go ? And what is it being used for? Some buck eejits on here
Goes to games development, improving stadia, salaries of staff.
Got to ask- if I'm the buck eejit then why am I having to explain this to you?
So out of all that what's left?
If the game goes pro it will work like all other pro sport, clubs will get cash fundraise and through club subs. And the elite teams will have to raise money through gate receipts, sponsors and tv and offer the best players contracts.
The GAA are a far less important organization as they haven't as many responsibilities to run every aspect of the entire sport. County boards similarly run clubs but won't have county teams to watch out for anymore.
The most important people in GAA these days are the best intercounty players. Without them there's no full stadiums or tv deals. The organization will form in what ever direction they want it to go.
I'd rather not go if it turns out like that.. and it's not going to happen
Quote from: pbat on October 04, 2018, 08:39:12 PM
I am all for endorsement but only if there is a level of fair play and transparency, there is things the GAA could implement to even the financial differences and bring the association back towards the amateur organisation most of us grew up loving. Some of the ideas may seem radical but might take a bit of an overhaul and something dramatic to bring the grassroots back into the fold.
1. Player Endorsements - If Adidas want to pay Joe Canning 20k for an ad fine but it gets approved from Croke Park. The 20K goes into a pool with all other endorsements over the year and then is split evenly among 64 counties panels at the end of the year. All players sign a commitment each January that this the only way endorsements are to be done and anything outside of this is a breach of the rules resulting in suspensions.
2. Sponsorship - If AIG reckon Dublin worth 1 million a year and Simply Fruits deal is 50k a year to Armagh (dont know what actual figures just an example) fine but all 32 sponsorship deals are approved at central council and the pool of funds distributed between 32 counties. AIG still getting the big advertisement so the amounts paid wouldn't drop of.
3. Outside Managers - No club or county can have a manager/couch/trainer from outside that club/county. Will not totally eradicate the brown envelopes but will definitely reduce the mercenaries. If a club/county can not genuinely get a inside man then they make there case to the county board/Croke Park. It will encourage more underage managers in clubs/counties because they believe if they can prove themselves there is really a chance of stepping up.
4. Club Transfers - With the improving roads and transport links no transfer will be considered for adult players that are within 80 miles of the players home clubs unless like a transfer currently within in a county the club the player is leaving signs it. Any adult player is only entitled to one transfer in a lifetime thus meaning they cannot return to there own club they started with when the cash cow of the big clubs dry up or age catches up with them.( This does not apply to international transfers ).
5. America - Anyone who decides to go to play in the states for a summer cannot play club or county football in Ireland until January of the follow year. Might stop players going for the dollar for 2 months then back in September for club championship. People will argue about the students. They can still go earn there summer money but that comes at a cost with no club to fall back to. It might be harsh on some but will stop lads announcing the morning after the county is beat they are gone and wont hang around for the qualifiers.
A lot of people will probably think these are bullsh*t ideas but I just feel the whole association needs to try something different.
Holy fcuk..You really have very little time for people's personal liberty or freedom don't you?
We are becoming an Association of Rules trying to keep the show on the road!
The sad thing is what made the Game great are the things that will hold it back in the future!
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on October 04, 2018, 10:23:04 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 04, 2018, 07:30:26 PM
Quote from: caprea on October 04, 2018, 07:18:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2018, 06:57:54 PM
a professional GAA is never going to happen
Why?
Revenue
Also the fact that most of the administration is done voluntary...
As it is in soccer and rugby
I don't know the money made by the soccer/football association or how much the average wage is for the professional players in Ireland, so can you enlighten me as to the success of Irish soccer and how it can be seen as a blueprint for the GAA to use and start paying its members?
- Bernard, it's John here.
- Well John, how are ye?
- Not bad, bit busy. But sure ye know. Anyhow, that €20k you got from SuperValu, we need to distribute it among all county players.
- Sounds fair I suppose. How many are there these days? I'd like them all to get a wee touch.
- Well we estimate 64 times 30, so 2,000 players in round money.
- I think you're a bit light there John. I hear Armagh carry a panel of 55 these days. And you know what, I'm determined that the young lad who's been training for the past month gets his share too. It's only fair he's treated the same as them lads who've not missed a season in 15 years.
- Your've probably right Bernard. Let's call it 40 per panel. So 2,700 odd players.
- We can't forget New York or London now John, can we?
- Oh you're right. So 2,800 or so.
- Thanks John. So that'll be roughly €7.15 or so a man. I guess though we will need to pay someone in the GAA to find out those 2,800 player names and addresses, and write 2,800 cheques.
- I suppose we would Bernard. Would probably take a week or two to sort that out.
- So maybe a fiver a man after admin costs then? Enough for a pint I suppose.
- Everyone likes a free pint Bernard.
- That they do John. That they do. Tell me something though. You lads wouldn't possibly be able to divide a car 2,800 ways would you?
- Ah no, that would be madness.
- Grand, I'll ask SuperValu for a car next year instead.
Quote from: caprea on October 04, 2018, 08:49:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2018, 08:18:51 PM
Quote from: caprea on October 04, 2018, 07:59:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2018, 07:54:28 PM
Quote from: caprea on October 04, 2018, 07:51:43 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 04, 2018, 07:42:50 PM
Were there not a few clubs in Dublin offering decent culchies a few quid to play for them??
But sure that's nothing really to do with it in respect.
The best intercounty players generate income, millions a year, that's why the game will go pro in the next few years.
So where does that income of millions go ? And what is it being used for? Some buck eejits on here
Goes to games development, improving stadia, salaries of staff.
Got to ask- if I'm the buck eejit then why am I having to explain this to you?
So out of all that what's left?
If the game goes pro it will work like all other pro sport, clubs will get cash fundraise and through club subs. And the elite teams will have to raise money through gate receipts, sponsors and tv and offer the best players contracts.
The GAA are a far less important organization as they haven't as many responsibilities to run every aspect of the entire sport. County boards similarly run clubs but won't have county teams to watch out for anymore.
The most important people in GAA these days are the best intercounty players. Without them there's no full stadiums or tv deals. The organization will form in what ever direction they want it to go.
Your starting from a false starting point there. I think you'd fine that many GAA people if push came to shove would forego the county set up for club. So if the GAA were to manufacture 10-12 teams as you think, they'd lose huge interest in the county following population, who would quite happily stick to their club. And then there would be no full Stadia, TV deals etc either so the money would drain out even quicker due to the additional costs of professionalism.
The GAA won't go professional in the next 10 years. Not a hope.
I've been to a lot of club championship games recently, hurling/football, I've seen more at our club games and more passion shown by their supporters than at our own county teams games, now that probably says more about the state of Antrim at intercounty level and not having a county stadium but the point is, come championship time at club level and if the timing is right around the club games you will bring out the crowds, I'd rather see that than start paying for professional players to do the same stuff.
There is no will for it, if a player feels he's doing too much and its affecting his life, step aside, there will be someone else there to fill his boots.
Quote from: pbat on October 04, 2018, 08:39:12 PM
1. Player Endorsements - If Adidas want to pay Joe Canning 20k for an ad fine but it gets approved from Croke Park. The 20K goes into a pool with all other endorsements over the year and then is split evenly among 64 counties panels at the end of the year. All players sign a commitment each January that this the only way endorsements are to be done and anything outside of this is a breach of the rules resulting in suspensions.
So if Joe Canning gives up his day to drive to Dublin for a press launch or other event, the money he earns for this is split among thousands of other players?
Quote
2. Sponsorship - If AIG reckon Dublin worth 1 million a year and Simply Fruits deal is 50k a year to Armagh (dont know what actual figures just an example) fine but all 32 sponsorship deals are approved at central council and the pool of funds distributed between 32 counties. AIG still getting the big advertisement so the amounts paid wouldn't drop of.
Why would eg Kingspan stick with sponsoring Cavan through thick and thin for 25 years if Cavan only ever see 1/32nd of their money?
Quote
If a club/county can not genuinely get a inside man then they make there case to the county board/Croke Park. It will encourage more underage managers in clubs/counties because they believe if they can prove themselves there is really a chance of stepping up.
Being an inside manager at a normal run-of-the-mill club is a fool's errand.
Quote
Any adult player is only entitled to one transfer in a lifetime thus meaning they cannot return to there own club they started with when the cash cow of the big clubs dry up or age catches up with them.
Basically banning anyone from playing GAA if they move job or home more than once in their lifetime.
Quote
5. America - Anyone who decides to go to play in the states for a summer cannot play club or county football in Ireland until January of the follow year. Might stop players going for the dollar for 2 months then back in September for club championship. People will argue about the students. They can still go earn there summer money but that comes at a cost with no club to fall back to. It might be harsh on some but will stop lads announcing the morning after the county is beat they are gone and wont hang around for the qualifiers.
They'll still go to America. It will be their clubs that will suffer in the autumn.
If the GPA balloted their members on the possibility of disbanding all county squads until the players were given an opportunity to enter into formal discussions to take the game professional what do people think would happen?
Quote from: caprea on October 05, 2018, 12:21:47 PM
If the GPA balloted their members on the possibility of disbanding all county squads until the players were given an opportunity to enter into formal discussions to take the game professional what do people think would happen?
A) It's not a decision for just the elite players so even if the GPA say yes it's still a decision for the wider GAA organisation who I would be fairly sure (IMO) would say no to a gun being held to their head to force professionalism through.
B) Even if by some miraculous reason they decide to agree I think the paying public would drop it like a stone and focus on club. Again stopping the money pouring in.
The GPA represents only inter-county players so I don't understand what you mean
Don't know where you come from trueblue but round here hardly any of Joe Public goes to club matches :(
Why would the GPA be balloting members to dissolve County squads?
Quote from: pbat on October 04, 2018, 08:39:12 PM
I am all for endorsement but only if there is a level of fair play and transparency, there is things the GAA could implement to even the financial differences and bring the association back towards the amateur organisation most of us grew up loving. Some of the ideas may seem radical but might take a bit of an overhaul and something dramatic to bring the grassroots back into the fold.
1. Player Endorsements - If Adidas want to pay Joe Canning 20k for an ad fine but it gets approved from Croke Park. The 20K goes into a pool with all other endorsements over the year and then is split evenly among 64 counties panels at the end of the year. All players sign a commitment each January that this the only way endorsements are to be done and anything outside of this is a breach of the rules resulting in suspensions.
2. Sponsorship - If AIG reckon Dublin worth 1 million a year and Simply Fruits deal is 50k a year to Armagh (dont know what actual figures just an example) fine but all 32 sponsorship deals are approved at central council and the pool of funds distributed between 32 counties. AIG still getting the big advertisement so the amounts paid wouldn't drop of.
3. Outside Managers - No club or county can have a manager/couch/trainer from outside that club/county. Will not totally eradicate the brown envelopes but will definitely reduce the mercenaries. If a club/county can not genuinely get a inside man then they make there case to the county board/Croke Park. It will encourage more underage managers in clubs/counties because they believe if they can prove themselves there is really a chance of stepping up.
4. Club Transfers - With the improving roads and transport links no transfer will be considered for adult players that are within 80 miles of the players home clubs unless like a transfer currently within in a county the club the player is leaving signs it. Any adult player is only entitled to one transfer in a lifetime thus meaning they cannot return to there own club they started with when the cash cow of the big clubs dry up or age catches up with them.( This does not apply to international transfers ).
5. America - Anyone who decides to go to play in the states for a summer cannot play club or county football in Ireland until January of the follow year. Might stop players going for the dollar for 2 months then back in September for club championship. People will argue about the students. They can still go earn there summer money but that comes at a cost with no club to fall back to. It might be harsh on some but will stop lads announcing the morning after the county is beat they are gone and wont hang around for the qualifiers.
A lot of people will probably think these are bullsh*t ideas but I just feel the whole association needs to try something different.
And I thought communism was a thing of the past ......
I agree with pbat's point 3.
Quote from: caprea on October 05, 2018, 12:57:59 PM
The GPA represents only inter-county players so I don't understand what you mean
I know, But it's not they're decision as to whether the GAA put in place professionalism. That's my point. Even if the GPA say, Yeah course I'd like a few pound for playing. It would hardly be surprising.
But just because they say yes doesn't mean the GAA would have to listen to them. And if they pulled the plug on the back of it, that would be the end of county football but they would never get support for manufactured teams. That move alone would alienate them and the structure couldn't survive with the significant drop in support.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 05, 2018, 12:59:06 PM
Don't know where you come from trueblue but round here hardly any of Joe 0ublic goes to club matches :(
Why would the GPA be balloting members to dissolve County squads?
Tyrone, and club games tend to be well enough supported here. Must be the violence pulls them in.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 05, 2018, 12:59:06 PM
Why would the GPA be balloting members to dissolve County squads?
The GPA don't ballot members on dissolving county squads.
What they do do however is have their members complete a survey every year where they are asked if professionalism means that there will no longer be an intercounty structure are they in favour of professionalism (GPA are savvy, the realise a 32 team structure for professionalism is an impossibility).
For now the answer has always been no but one day that no will turn into a yes and then we will likely see a ballot on strike if the GAA don't immediately agree to discussions on a professionlism.
Quote from: caprea on October 05, 2018, 01:44:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 05, 2018, 12:59:06 PM
Why would the GPA be balloting members to dissolve County squads?
The GPA don't ballot members on dissolving county squads.
What they do do however is have their members complete a survey every year where they are asked if professionalism means that there will no longer be an intercounty structure are they in favour of professionalism (GPA are savvy, the realise a 32 team structure for professionalism is an impossibility).
For now the answer has always been no but one day that no will turn into a yes and then we will likely see a ballot on strike if the GAA don't immediately agree to discussions on a professionlism.
That would lead to the support for the GPA from the GAA being cut (Lets be honest the only reason they were brought in-house was to keep a handle on them) and then the counties could remove the striking players from the panel and hold trials for players who wanted to be involved voluntarily. Course it'll weaken the standard but you'll still avoid professionalism.
I just don't see any way the players can force this through unless it's supported by the majority of the GAA. And I just don't see that happening.
Bit of a sidenote but they GPA and others should look towards what happened Cricket and Kerry Packer in the 1970's, they need a rich patron to sign up amateurs.
Of course this might never happen to the GAA.
How did he sign so many players?
At the time cricketers were appallingly paid - the Australians were in effect amateurs - and so, in Packer's own words, it was "the easiest sport in the world to take over ... nobody bothered to pay the players what they were worth".
http://www.espncricinfo.com/worldseries/content/story/323763.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/worldseries/content/story/323763.html)
Quote from: caprea on October 05, 2018, 01:44:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 05, 2018, 12:59:06 PM
Why would the GPA be balloting members to dissolve County squads?
The GPA don't ballot members on dissolving county squads.
What they do do however is have their members complete a survey every year where they are asked if professionalism means that there will no longer be an intercounty structure are they in favour of professionalism (GPA are savvy, the realise a 32 team structure for professionalism is an impossibility).
For now the answer has always been no but one day that no will turn into a yes and then we will likely see a ballot on strike if the GAA don't immediately agree to discussions on a professionlism.
Caprea, this seems to be your hobby horse but you've never once made a cogent argument as how or why it would happen.
I see no reason why a majority of IC players would vote in favour of professionalism. I've no doubt a majority would like to be professional GAA players but why would a majority vote for it?
If the county system had to be scrapped in favour of, lets say, 10 regional professional teams then why would the majority of division 3 and 4 players or division 1 and 2 squad players vote for it when the vast majority wouldn't make a professional franchise squad? They'd basically be voting themselves out of the dance.
Why would any IC player 25 years or older vote for it? By the time the fine details were ironed out (3 years minimum) most would be at or near the end of their playing career. So they'd be striking for something they'd not get any benefit from. Can't see many lads risk their career, not to mention the unholy shit storm they'd face day to day just so some of the current minor team might make a living out of GAA.
In the event the GAA did go pro would a 27 year old doctor/accountant/engineer/business owner etc. decide to put their career on hold to go pro in the GAA? Some probably would but many wouldn't.
And even if they did go on strike, what cards would they hold?
Players: pay us or we don't play.
GAA: Right lads, don't play. Others will and if not we'll focus on clubs.
Players: We'll form our own breakaway professional GAA.
GAA: No bother lads, but you'll not have access to any pitches or GAA facilities anywhere in Ireland.
Players: Errr.....right......ahhh
There's just no leverage for the players, support from the wider GAA or the ability to sustain a professional sport here longterm.
Zulu, i guess you've made a couple of points there so I'll try and give my take on the three main ones. You make a very good point about why would the average to poor intercounty players vote themselves out of existence.
I guess I would say a couple of things:
1- it would be interesting to know how the vote currently looks in terms of favour for professionalism in the intercounty GAA players body currently.
2- the money makers for the GAA are the best of the best players, a corner back for Wicklow or number 26 on the cork panel don't make money really for the association. The first XVs for about 10 - 12 counties are the ones that create income and draw the big crowds and tv audiences. Then after that the likes of maybe 3 players for the weaker counties are at a level where they are financial assets to the association. So what you have is two bodies within the players association. One that are there to "make up the numbers" in teams that don't create income to the GAA really. And the other slightly smaller group which do create substantial income and if they were to withhold their working capital it would damage the association. In a model like this where one association (the GPA) is meant to represent the interests of a distinct group but can't because the interests of the group are too varying is it natural that eventually there will be a split in the GPA?
I think its a distinct possibility. An association like the GPA is only fit for purpose if it can represent the overwhelming interests of its members. If it can't then a breakaway of members who are the most crucial to the GAA in terms of income is possible.
3- even the players who wouldn't get professional contracts still currently have to make a big time commitment to playing intercounty, at least 20 hours a week. Given this commitment for what is essientially no reward they might not be as against professionalism as you think.
Moving on to the point about professional GAA meaning players cant make money from day jobs, another good point.
what i would say is it really depends on the length of the season of a professional league and it also depends on the salary available for pro GAA players.
The length of the professional league season if only half the year, this would allow a lot of time for players to have different flexible day jobs such as run small businesses like gyms or be part time personal trainers or GAA club trainers. It would also leave a huge amount of time to complete night courses and further education as a couple of professional rugby players are particularly accustomed to doing. Professional sports men is not a 12 month a year job like working in a office or a bank so there is still plenty of part time work and further education GAA professional players could engage in.
In terms of salary I think 60k-70k a year would have to be the level to make it a plausible option for the average elite GAA player. Maybe less. If you have 10 squads of 30 thats only 300 people earning 70k so 21 million, throw in coaches etc and you're at about 23 million. The intercounty game brings in about 50-70 million a year to central GAA already in the amateur era. It brings in more millions to individual county boards. The GAA also have to pay the GPA about 5 million a year anyway in the amateur era which they shouldn't in a professional era so the figures, rough as they are, look conducive to professionalism.
You're third point about...to be continued
Your third point about the GAA could withstand the impact of a GAA players strike, you ask what cards do the GAA hold?
Well they hold the cards where they bring in 50-70 million a year to the central association, more millions to the county boards and provincial councils.
They bring in further millions, practically countless millions, to the economy in general. All the restaurants, pubs, hotels, petrol stations, gardai, match staff, GAA administration staff, train drivers, bus drivers and taxi drivers who get huge income from match days.
The GAA would have to lay off a huge chunk of staff because they wouldn't have the money to pay them if the players went on strike and there would be no work for them to do anyway.
So to suggest the GAA would be blaise about losing the intercounty game income is frankly a ridiculous notion.
It would become a big issue for the government never mind the GAA if the money tap from the intercounty game was turned off.
The reasons GAA will go professional are numerous but the main ones are
1- thats just how the global economy works in capitalism, income generators receive reward in line with the income they generate
2- every sport in the world works this way, to think the GAA is immune to this because its only played in ireland is nonsense. Ireland is a big economy and it will support the same economic eco system as any other global economy which means the big sports are professional sports.
3- the intercounty players always win any arguments they enter into; the cork hurlers and footballers, the Galway hurlers, the Waterford hurlers, the newbridge or nowhere. The intercounty players simply have too much economic power to ever lose any argument with GAA bureaucrats. This argument will be big and bitter when it happens but eventually the players will win because there is no show without them.
4- the intercounty system doesn't work. There are too many small counties who are making up the numbers and need to realign with other neighboring small counties to become viable competition to the big teams. Ireland is now an urbanized economy so the county system doesn't work for small rural counties.
What a load of crap
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 06, 2018, 10:41:30 AM
What a load of crap
The Nordie answer to everything ;D
There isn't the population to fund and sustain a full time professional football and hurling system.
Any semi pro system is more likely to be in hurling where you have a small number of elite Counties already and the population in the Munster Counties might be able to sustain such.
Milltown has a point, Antrim is pretty urban and yet cannot sustain a decent team.