Donegal vs Armagh Ulster Championship 2022

[Rufus T Firefly]

There aren't any club footballers in Armagh who could come in and significantly improve the county team. Maybe a few panel members could be swapped out, but that's the same in every county.

This is the thing with McGeeney.

He has always been weak on the line, right back to his time with Kildare. Some of the stuff Armagh do on the pitch is just daft. They make a lot of very similar mistakes game after game, year after year. Problems with simple fixes are frequently left fester. Much of it is very self defeating, and so is particularly painful for supporters to endure.

But McGeeney also has the complete loyalty of his players. Armagh pretty much get the best in the county into an orange jersey, something that stymies most counties outside of those with a shot at Sam. Many of these players do make marked improvements with the longer they spend under his tutelage - he seems to be able to mould decent county level players out of men that were not expected to reach that standard. And it can't be forgotten that Armagh have been woeful at underage level for over a decade now. The club scene is weak too. There are systemic problems with player development in the county. It is against this backdrop that the manager is trying to succeed.

Maybe someone else comes in and tidies things up and the current bunch push on, but for me it's just as likely that the whole show would fall into a heap.

Some great points made, particularly around the wider issue of what is available in terms of a player pool and the standard of our underage. I personally think football in Armagh is terrible at the moment and that is reflected in the performances of our Minors, Under 20s and teams in the Ulster Club series. It's not too wide of the mark to say that Armagh are currently boxing way above their weight, given what we have.

[yellowcard]

There aren't any club footballers in Armagh who could come in and significantly improve the county team. Maybe a few panel members could be swapped out, but that's the same in every county.

This is the thing with McGeeney.

He has always been weak on the line, right back to his time with Kildare. Some of the stuff Armagh do on the pitch is just daft. They make a lot of very similar mistakes game after game, year after year. Problems with simple fixes are frequently left fester. Much of it is very self defeating, and so is particularly painful for supporters to endure.

But McGeeney also has the complete loyalty of his players. Armagh pretty much get the best in the county into an orange jersey, something that stymies most counties outside of those with a shot at Sam. Many of these players do make marked improvements with the longer they spend under his tutelage - he seems to be able to mould decent county level players out of men that were not expected to reach that standard. And it can't be forgotten that Armagh have been woeful at underage level for over a decade now. The club scene is weak too. There are systemic problems with player development in the county. It is against this backdrop that the manager is trying to succeed.

Maybe someone else comes in and tidies things up and the current bunch push on, but for me it's just as likely that the whole show would fall into a heap.

Some great points made, particularly around the wider issue of what is available in terms of a player pool and the standard of our underage. I personally think football in Armagh is terrible at the moment and that is reflected in the performances of our Minors, Under 20s and teams in the Ulster Club series. It's not too wide of the mark to say that Armagh are currently boxing way above their weight, given what we have.

Yes, I would agree with all of this. There is certainly an argument to be had that we are actually over achieving given the standard of players coming through.   

[J70]

Donegal took their punishment re suspensions, focused on the task at hand. Armagh spent too much time on trying to get men off on technicalities etc, surely this distracted them to a degree? Or Donegal, especially at Ballybofey were just much better....

Probably a bit of both, but in hindsight a lot of pundits underestimated the Ballybofey factor. I think Kerry will win the All Ireland, but would probably have an almighty fight to win a championship game in Ballybofey, so I wouldn't be too hard on an Armagh team still learning how to compete at the top of the game.

Think people are going a bit over the top with the Ballybofey thing.

Donegal's unbeaten run there has coincided with them having a top six team most of the time, with a backbone of the likes of Murphy, Lacey, Neil McGee, Neil Gallagher etc.

We've been mostly amongst the top two in Ulster and most of the teams we've played in champsionship in Ballybofey during that period have been from Ulster.

We've still managed to lose to Tyrone in 2018 in the Super 8s, and we never faced a Kerry or Dublin or, our nemesis, Mayo, in Ballybofey.

Murphy will be gone in a few years. While we'll always be hard to beat there (what Division 1 team is easy to beat in their home ground, Galway against Mayo excepted?!), I don't think the run that started again in 2019 will last as long as the previous one. Especially if we fade back into the Ulster pack for a few years.

Good points, but I don't think we'll see that type of Donegal performance outside of Ballybofey, and that's where the problem will ultimately be in terms of Donegal achieving their aims - Ulster or All Ireland title.

I'd defer back to my point that its probably more about the relative standards of the teams than the venue. We've won plenty of games in Clones and Croke Park over the past decade or so. Tyrone beat us in Ballybofey in 2018 because of the options they were able to bring in off their bench.

Aside from Cavan ambushing us in that Ulster final, the only Ulster teams to beat us in championship since 2010 have been Tyrone and Monaghan, who've each also lost lost to us more than once, which is to be expected of teams of similar standards. The only non-Ulster teams to beat us have been Mayo and Dublin (several times each) and Galway and Kerry (once each). We  haven't been losing to Meath or Roscommon or Cork or Kildare.

Based on what we saw, I think we would still have beaten Armagh in Clones or Crossmaglen yesterday. Might not have been so comprehensively, but we'd still probably have won.

If we lose to Cavan or after that, Tyrone (presumably) it will down to them being a better team on the day (or in general) than the particulars of the venue giving us or costing a couple of points. In my opinion, of course.

[yellowcard]

Having watched the penalty incident again on TV last night it is very hard to see what the foul was for. Even if there had been VAR in place it would still had been very difficult to make a conclusive decision either way, so it looked like the referee simply copped out and blew for a foul to save any controversy. It was a huge momentum swinger as once Donegal had weathered the initial storm after half time they controlled the rest of the game.

I assume you mean the disallowed goal rather than penalty incident? The replay on the Sunday Game clearly show the keeper on his knees with the ball in his grasp. It was pulled out of his grasp. Its a clear free, i dont know what the confusion is unless you dont know the rules of the game.

Yes, the disallowed goal. The problem was that it didn't clearly show anything. Even Sean Cavanagh said that it was inconclusive while Oisin McConville and Peter Canavan both said it should have stood on BBC with Martin McHugh. So definitely not clear cut.

I had to laugh at Oisin complaining about the fitness of the referees, the ref was standing on the D where did he want him to be? up in the small square? Oisin was standing 100 meters away but could see clearly that the goal should have stood! amazing eyesight..

Ball ripped out of hands whistle went I think at that point, I would be 50/50 on the throw ball part as the ball might not have been in 'proper' possession so 'palming' it in is ok, if it was deemed not in full possession

Well it certainly wasn't a fitness issue as the ball was kicked in 75 metres directly after the throw in, so using the lack of fitness from referees is a red herring in this instance. It didn't surprise me that he gave a free out in real time as 9 times out of 10 the referee would err on the side of caution. However I still can't decide whether it was legal or illegal and I have watched it several times on replay. If it had been allowed I guess Donegal would be up in arms over it anyway but it is difficult to say if Patton had the ball firmly in his possession.

There was one free kick that he gave to Ryan McHugh in the second half where they scored a point off that nobody seemed to know what it was for, least of all McHugh himself. Otherwise I felt that Deegans performance was decent yesterday.   

[Taylor]

I take no pleasure in saying this but I thought the referee was harsh on Armagh yesterday.

Donegal seemed to win their frees much easier and any contentious calls went the way of Donegal. (ONeill & McHugh frees).

That aside, Donegal were the superior team all over the field.

Ban Gallagher was superb throughout & Murphy stood up in the second half when it really counted.

Ryan McHugh was given the freedom of the park throughout - has no one on the Armagh management team seen McHugh play before??

As for Armagh - the league position gave a false sense of belief. In cship terms they are 8th - 12th best team in Ireland. Nowhere near challenging.
How many Ulster cship games have ye won in the last 10 years?

I would not fear Donegal if we get them in the final - in fact I would be very confident we would beat them.

[brokencrossbar1]

Hard to know what to make of that. First thing I will say, the game may have been lost in Ballybofey but the seeds of defeat were sown in Letterkenny. The last few weeks for us have been about suspensions, appeals, CCCC, who's in who's out. Donegal focused on the football. We should have gone through the motions against them in the League but for whatever reason we didn't. That was wrong and cost us and that's on the management.

Yesterday we struggled all over the field at different times and we were beaten by a much better team. It was a 7 point hammering. We can point to the goal that wasn't given and a few other things but the reality is Donegal were fitter, sharper, smarter and more clinical at crucial times. The game plan was absent and ability to readjust both on the line and on the field is not there. There are no leaders. People will say we are short of players etc etc and there's no dispute in that but a lack of a game plan has nothing to do with luck of players.

I think that maybe we got a false sense of where we were at because of a good start to the league. Let's put in perspective about the league results. We beat Tyrone who were still playing n their post AI win break as it were. They will be in an Ulster Final I'd say and will give the whole thing a run again. We beat Dublin and Kildare who were both relegated and we drew with Monaghan at a struggle who had a man sent off. Monaghan were also within a kick of relegation. We peaked at that point of the season and have tapered off since. The question needs to be asked why?

We may have lost players and have players coming back from injury but that's something every team has to deal with.

We were bullied in key areas, particularly the middle. We didn't stand up to it. Maybe we couldn't.

We now have the back door. A few good results and we could recalibrate but is that what is really needed? Personally I don't believe so. I don't believe we have progressed far enough over the last few years to warrant that but the reality is Div 1 survivable and a decent run in the Qualifiers will save the management their positions. A proper review needs to be done but I am not sure that there are people brave enough to do so.

[Main Street]

Having watched the penalty incident again on TV last night it is very hard to see what the foul was for. Even if there had been VAR in place it would still had been very difficult to make a conclusive decision either way, so it looked like the referee simply copped out and blew for a foul to save any controversy. It was a huge momentum swinger as once Donegal had weathered the initial storm after half time they controlled the rest of the game.

I assume you mean the disallowed goal rather than penalty incident? The replay on the Sunday Game clearly show the keeper on his knees with the ball in his grasp. It was pulled out of his grasp. Its a clear free, i dont know what the confusion is unless you dont know the rules of the game.

Yes, the disallowed goal. The problem was that it didn't clearly show anything. Even Sean Cavanagh said that it was inconclusive while Oisin McConville and Peter Canavan both said it should have stood on BBC with Martin McHugh. So definitely not clear cut.

I had to laugh at Oisin complaining about the fitness of the referees, the ref was standing on the D where did he want him to be? up in the small square? Oisin was standing 100 meters away but could see clearly that the goal should have stood! amazing eyesight..

Ball ripped out of hands whistle went I think at that point, I would be 50/50 on the throw ball part as the ball might not have been in 'proper' possession so 'palming' it in is ok, if it was deemed not in full possession

Well it certainly wasn't a fitness issue as the ball was kicked in 75 metres directly after the throw in, so using the lack of fitness from referees is a red herring in this instance. It didn't surprise me that he gave a free out in real time as 9 times out of 10 the referee would err on the side of caution. However I still can't decide whether it was legal or illegal and I have watched it several times on replay. If it had been allowed I guess Donegal would be up in arms over it anyway but it is difficult to say if Patton had the ball firmly in his possession.

There was one free kick that he gave to Ryan McHugh in the second half where they scored a point off that nobody seemed to know what it was for, least of all McHugh himself. Otherwise I felt that Deegans performance was decent yesterday.   

I think the goalie had it in his grasp, not tightly and it was pulled out rather easy.  Even so MR2 says that's a foul. It's just I don't see how the ref saw all that clearly, perhaps Maurice has xray eyes.

[Gael80]

Donegal took their punishment re suspensions, focused on the task at hand. Armagh spent too much time on trying to get men off on technicalities etc, surely this distracted them to a degree? Or Donegal, especially at Ballybofey were just much better....

Probably a bit of both, but in hindsight a lot of pundits underestimated the Ballybofey factor. I think Kerry will win the All Ireland, but would probably have an almighty fight to win a championship game in Ballybofey, so I wouldn't be too hard on an Armagh team still learning how to compete at the top of the game.

Think people are going a bit over the top with the Ballybofey thing.

Donegal's unbeaten run there has coincided with them having a top six team most of the time, with a backbone of the likes of Murphy, Lacey, Neil McGee, Neil Gallagher etc.

We've been mostly amongst the top two in Ulster and most of the teams we've played in champsionship in Ballybofey during that period have been from Ulster.

We've still managed to lose to Tyrone in 2018 in the Super 8s, and we never faced a Kerry or Dublin or, our nemesis, Mayo, in Ballybofey.

Murphy will be gone in a few years. While we'll always be hard to beat there (what Division 1 team is easy to beat in their home ground, Galway against Mayo excepted?!), I don't think the run that started again in 2019 will last as long as the previous one. Especially if we fade back into the Ulster pack for a few years.

Good points, but I don't think we'll see that type of Donegal performance outside of Ballybofey, and that's where the problem will ultimately be in terms of Donegal achieving their aims - Ulster or All Ireland title.

I'd defer back to my point that its probably more about the relative standards of the teams than the venue. We've won plenty of games in Clones and Croke Park over the past decade or so. Tyrone beat us in Ballybofey in 2018 because of the options they were able to bring in off their bench.

Aside from Cavan ambushing us in that Ulster final, the only Ulster teams to beat us in championship since 2010 have been Tyrone and Monaghan, who've each also lost lost to us more than once, which is to be expected of teams of similar standards. The only non-Ulster teams to beat us have been Mayo and Dublin (several times each) and Galway and Kerry (once each). We  haven't been losing to Meath or Roscommon or Cork or Kildare.

Based on what we saw, I think we would still have beaten Armagh in Clones or Crossmaglen yesterday. Might not have been so comprehensively, but we'd still probably have won.

If we lose to Cavan or after that, Tyrone (presumably) it will down to them being a better team on the day (or in general) than the particulars of the venue giving us or costing a couple of points. In my opinion, of course.

Ahh if we went back to 2010 then fair enough, Donegal from 2011 to 2015 were a serious team, that should of won another All Ireland at least. 2016 - 2019 they were still right up there, but where never going to beat Dublin, Mayo or Tyrone to an All Ireland.

I don't think the current Donegal team is anywhere near those standards but Ballybofey is a massive advantage to them, whatever happens there they look like All Ireland contenders at times.

Would Armagh compete with or beat Donegal if they got them in Clones or Croke Park later this summer? After yesterday it's hard to see it, but I do think the game would be a lot closer away from Ballybofey.

It's just my opinion and I don't mean it in a bad way but I would be surprised if this Donegal team won the Ulster title or made it through to an All Ireland semi final. I still think their slow build up/handpassing game gets exposed at bigger venues, they're also very physical around the middle areas of the field and can impose themselves on smaller fields such as Ballybofey.

Good luck against Cavan, it'll be a great game especially as Cavan have to win to stay in the senior championship.

[Milltown Row2]

Having watched the penalty incident again on TV last night it is very hard to see what the foul was for. Even if there had been VAR in place it would still had been very difficult to make a conclusive decision either way, so it looked like the referee simply copped out and blew for a foul to save any controversy. It was a huge momentum swinger as once Donegal had weathered the initial storm after half time they controlled the rest of the game.

I assume you mean the disallowed goal rather than penalty incident? The replay on the Sunday Game clearly show the keeper on his knees with the ball in his grasp. It was pulled out of his grasp. Its a clear free, i dont know what the confusion is unless you dont know the rules of the game.

Yes, the disallowed goal. The problem was that it didn't clearly show anything. Even Sean Cavanagh said that it was inconclusive while Oisin McConville and Peter Canavan both said it should have stood on BBC with Martin McHugh. So definitely not clear cut.

I had to laugh at Oisin complaining about the fitness of the referees, the ref was standing on the D where did he want him to be? up in the small square? Oisin was standing 100 meters away but could see clearly that the goal should have stood! amazing eyesight..

Ball ripped out of hands whistle went I think at that point, I would be 50/50 on the throw ball part as the ball might not have been in 'proper' possession so 'palming' it in is ok, if it was deemed not in full possession

Well it certainly wasn't a fitness issue as the ball was kicked in 75 metres directly after the throw in, so using the lack of fitness from referees is a red herring in this instance. It didn't surprise me that he gave a free out in real time as 9 times out of 10 the referee would err on the side of caution. However I still can't decide whether it was legal or illegal and I have watched it several times on replay. If it had been allowed I guess Donegal would be up in arms over it anyway but it is difficult to say if Patton had the ball firmly in his possession.

There was one free kick that he gave to Ryan McHugh in the second half where they scored a point off that nobody seemed to know what it was for, least of all McHugh himself. Otherwise I felt that Deegans performance was decent yesterday.   

I think the goalie had it in his grasp, not tightly and it was pulled out rather easy.  Even so MR2 says that's a foul. It's just I don't see how the ref saw all that clearly, perhaps Maurice has xray eyes.

I'm with you on that, I don't know how he seen it as well as we did on the slow mo, and I can't remember if he gave an indication of what the foul was for at the time, did he raise an arm, can't remember. It could be as someone else said he couldn't be bother with the hassle of a messy situation and just blew for something, been there and sometimes that's a get out..

Again though he was close enough, and depends on his angle looking in

[Armagh Girl]

Well Congrats to Donegal they were a better prepared Team than Armagh and certainly had a game plan.  Armagh's decision to keep going backwards with the Ball to GK was just horrific to watch, thought going into the game if we had any chance of winning we needed to be even or ahead at half time.  Then for Geezer to continue with same old and only make 1 change at half time was unbelievable.  Ban Gallagher running right through the middle time and time again, no one near him and Geezer standing in front of us with his arms folded, still keeping his same favourites on.  It was always going to take us to be on our best to get out of Ballybofey with a win, and we were just awful.  Hopefully the Team can pick themselves up from yesterday for their next game. 
Best of Luck to Donegal in the next round as i expect Cavan will be no walkover.  Have to say we had a great wee day in Ballybofey, enjoyed the chat and craic with the locals and even time for craic with the great Brian McEniff, a complete gentleman who had great time for the Armagh folk around him yesterday. 

[greatpoint]

What's this nonsense about MacCumhaill Park in Ballybofey being a small pitch? It's literally one of the biggest pitches in the country.

[delgany]

What's this nonsense about MacCumhaill Park in Ballybofey being a small pitch? It's literally one of the biggest pitches in the country.

According to BBC coverage, the sidelines were moved in by 1m on each side, due to safety concerns !

[Itchy]

What's this nonsense about MacCumhaill Park in Ballybofey being a small pitch? It's literally one of the biggest pitches in the country.

It wasn't at the weekend as apparently the cute Donegal hoors narrowed it!. Unbelievably in my opinion Donegal are 1/5 to beat Cavan and Cavan 4-1. I think Cavan will win that game.

[An Watcher]

Here here it's a safety issue, donegal wouldn't be at that craic!!

[greatpoint]

What's this nonsense about MacCumhaill Park in Ballybofey being a small pitch? It's literally one of the biggest pitches in the country.

According to BBC coverage, the sidelines were moved in by 1m on each side, due to safety concerns !

Which would give it exactly the same dimensions as Croke Park.