Donegal vs Armagh Ulster Championship 2022

[Throw ball]

One sure thing is that the gaa are definitely amature when it comes to enforcing rules or applying consistency.

While I agree on a lack of consistency the GAA will point out that the decisions of the referee were enforced in the Dublin v Kerry game, the Armagh v Donegal game and the Armagh v Tyrone game. The only person cited who was not picked out by referee was Rian O'Neill - and he won his appeal.

[lenny]

This was a disgraceful stunt by Donegal to get men sent off. It is welcome that they were only partly successful. Hopefully, Armagh will gave the sense not to fall into such traps in future.

It's amazing how people can change their mind when the shoe is on the other foot. For the tyrone armagh row you said

But teams could set a standard too, they could tell their players that if they do join in a melee that they will not be trying to get the off.
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Seems now when armagh get involved it's the other teams fault. Great to see hypocrisy  alive and well.

O'Neill didn't join the melee, the melee was started to get him sent off.

I still think they need something to stop the "all in" aspect, not least because if there are only two or three involved then there is a batter chance of seeing what is going on. Hpwever, it is hard to see how you get from here to there.

Its simple. Team penalties.

Unfortunately the will is not there within the GAA community to do anything about it.

Team penalties are the way to go. Heavy penalties at that

Give us an example of a team penalty that would be an effective deterrent.

[tyrone08]

One sure thing is that the gaa are definitely amature when it comes to enforcing rules or applying consistency.

While I agree on a lack of consistency the GAA will point out that the decisions of the referee were enforced in the Dublin v Kerry game, the Armagh v Donegal game and the Armagh v Tyrone game. The only person cited who was not picked out by referee was Rian O'Neill - and he won his appeal.

Not really. In the Dublin game there were 6 or 7 players in the meele. More in the tyrone game then even more in the Donegal game. How does a ref pick a handful of players out in all of that.

Rian was the only one caught clearly striking but somehow he's the one that gets off

[David McKeown]

One sure thing is that the gaa are definitely amature when it comes to enforcing rules or applying consistency.

While I agree on a lack of consistency the GAA will point out that the decisions of the referee were enforced in the Dublin v Kerry game, the Armagh v Donegal game and the Armagh v Tyrone game. The only person cited who was not picked out by referee was Rian O'Neill - and he won his appeal.

Not really. In the Dublin game there were 6 or 7 players in the meele. More in the tyrone game then even more in the Donegal game. How does a ref pick a handful of players out in all of that.

Rian was the only one caught clearly striking but somehow he's the one that gets off

It certainly wasn't a clear strike. He certainly had a case to answer and I think had the referee reported it the video evidence wouldn't have cleared him but it's a different test for the CCC to cite someone missed by the referee

[trueblue1234]

One sure thing is that the gaa are definitely amature when it comes to enforcing rules or applying consistency.

While I agree on a lack of consistency the GAA will point out that the decisions of the referee were enforced in the Dublin v Kerry game, the Armagh v Donegal game and the Armagh v Tyrone game. The only person cited who was not picked out by referee was Rian O'Neill - and he won his appeal.

Not really. In the Dublin game there were 6 or 7 players in the meele. More in the tyrone game then even more in the Donegal game. How does a ref pick a handful of players out in all of that.

Rian was the only one caught clearly striking but somehow he's the one that gets off

This is the problem that was alluded to earlier. What is contributing to a melee. It can't be striking or even headlocks as they fall under other offences. So contributing to a melee can only really be the 3rd man in. Therefore we should have had a raft of suspensions from the Tyrone v Armagh, Kerry v Dublin and Armagh v Donegal. So the gaa need to either go all in and have chaos for a year or so while teams readjust to strict rules on 3rd man in. Or do away with it altogether as This half assed, undefined in between mess is going to rumble on.

[David McKeown]

One sure thing is that the gaa are definitely amature when it comes to enforcing rules or applying consistency.

While I agree on a lack of consistency the GAA will point out that the decisions of the referee were enforced in the Dublin v Kerry game, the Armagh v Donegal game and the Armagh v Tyrone game. The only person cited who was not picked out by referee was Rian O'Neill - and he won his appeal.

Not really. In the Dublin game there were 6 or 7 players in the meele. More in the tyrone game then even more in the Donegal game. How does a ref pick a handful of players out in all of that.

Rian was the only one caught clearly striking but somehow he's the one that gets off

This is the problem that was alluded to earlier. What is contributing to a melee. It can't be striking or even headlocks as they fall under other offences. So contributing to a melee can only really be the 3rd man in. Therefore we should have had a raft of suspensions from the Tyrone v Armagh, Kerry v Dublin and Armagh v Donegal. So the gaa need to either go all in and have chaos for a year or so while teams readjust to strict rules on 3rd man in. Or do away with it altogether as This half assed, undefined in between mess is going to rumble on.

Problem is they already punished people for contributing to a melee when there was only two involved. Jason Forde being a prime example.

[Wildweasel74]

Gaa too busy organising concerts to worry about the rulebook. A all team suitable deterent? Forfeit all home games the following year plus big fine to start with.

[Hound]

One sure thing is that the gaa are definitely amature when it comes to enforcing rules or applying consistency.

While I agree on a lack of consistency the GAA will point out that the decisions of the referee were enforced in the Dublin v Kerry game, the Armagh v Donegal game and the Armagh v Tyrone game. The only person cited who was not picked out by referee was Rian O'Neill - and he won his appeal.

Not really. In the Dublin game there were 6 or 7 players in the meele. More in the tyrone game then even more in the Donegal game. How does a ref pick a handful of players out in all of that.

Rian was the only one caught clearly striking but somehow he's the one that gets off

This is the problem that was alluded to earlier. What is contributing to a melee. It can't be striking or even headlocks as they fall under other offences. So contributing to a melee can only really be the 3rd man in. Therefore we should have had a raft of suspensions from the Tyrone v Armagh, Kerry v Dublin and Armagh v Donegal. So the gaa need to either go all in and have chaos for a year or so while teams readjust to strict rules on 3rd man in. Or do away with it altogether as This half assed, undefined in between mess is going to rumble on.

Bizarre that people want bans given out for pushing and shoving.
The only bans given in the matches above were for violent conduct, such as striking, headlocks, etc. Hence, relatively few bans across all the games and none in the Kerry v Dublin game.

There's been 20 pages of crying and whinging about being banned for 'contributing to a melee' when in the vast vast majority of cases, the only way anyone ever gets banned for 'contributing to a melee' is by engaging in violent conduct while doing so.

[LCohen]

This was a disgraceful stunt by Donegal to get men sent off. It is welcome that they were only partly successful. Hopefully, Armagh will gave the sense not to fall into such traps in future.

It's amazing how people can change their mind when the shoe is on the other foot. For the tyrone armagh row you said

But teams could set a standard too, they could tell their players that if they do join in a melee that they will not be trying to get the off.
ReplyQuoteNotify

Seems now when armagh get involved it's the other teams fault. Great to see hypocrisy  alive and well.

O'Neill didn't join the melee, the melee was started to get him sent off.

I still think they need something to stop the "all in" aspect, not least because if there are only two or three involved then there is a batter chance of seeing what is going on. Hpwever, it is hard to see how you get from here to there.

Its simple. Team penalties.

Unfortunately the will is not there within the GAA community to do anything about it.

Team penalties are the way to go. Heavy penalties at that

Give us an example of a team penalty that would be an effective deterrent.

It's easy to think of a deterrent. All you have to do is make it very punitive e.g. heavy financial penalty, suspension from competition, embargo on holding home games. Heavier versions of these penalties to be held over for second offences.

The question is not can you think of a deterrent but whether you can get it through Congress.

The disciplinary process and the melee both need looked at.

Penalties have to stick or there is no point in them. I welcome the position the referees are taking of standing back and gathering what evidence they can. Worth noting that the punishments based upon the referee's view stuck whereas the camera didn't.

So far there is a clear position of looking for punches, headlocks or throwing to the ground rather than just grabbing a jersey. I don't think this goes far enough. The joining in also needs punished. If you deter that then you don't get the punches, headlocks etc.

Ultimately this will come to a head when a serious injury is inflicted. There is a basic presumption that something that happens on a pitch won't end in a court of law. Which is true right up to the point where it isn't.

[trueblue1234]

One sure thing is that the gaa are definitely amature when it comes to enforcing rules or applying consistency.

While I agree on a lack of consistency the GAA will point out that the decisions of the referee were enforced in the Dublin v Kerry game, the Armagh v Donegal game and the Armagh v Tyrone game. The only person cited who was not picked out by referee was Rian O'Neill - and he won his appeal.

Not really. In the Dublin game there were 6 or 7 players in the meele. More in the tyrone game then even more in the Donegal game. How does a ref pick a handful of players out in all of that.

Rian was the only one caught clearly striking but somehow he's the one that gets off

This is the problem that was alluded to earlier. What is contributing to a melee. It can't be striking or even headlocks as they fall under other offences. So contributing to a melee can only really be the 3rd man in. Therefore we should have had a raft of suspensions from the Tyrone v Armagh, Kerry v Dublin and Armagh v Donegal. So the gaa need to either go all in and have chaos for a year or so while teams readjust to strict rules on 3rd man in. Or do away with it altogether as This half assed, undefined in between mess is going to rumble on.

Bizarre that people want bans given out for pushing and shoving.
The only bans given in the matches above were for violent conduct, such as striking, headlocks, etc. Hence, relatively few bans across all the games and none in the Kerry v Dublin game.

There's been 20 pages of crying and whinging about being banned for 'contributing to a melee' when in the vast vast majority of cases, the only way anyone ever gets banned for 'contributing to a melee' is by engaging in violent conduct while doing so.

Sorry Hound, that's complete nonsense. The Rules already have 

• Striking or attempting to strike with arm, elbow, hand, knee or head
  Behaving in a way which is dangerous to an opponent.

Why would they use the contributing to a melee instead of the much more obvious and clear infringement?
Plus there was grappling and throwing down of players in the Dub v Kerry game. Your trying to define the infringement to suit your very clear Dub bias.

[Wildweasel74]

Nah, we looking bans/fines for subs and backroom staff all getting involved from the sidelines when they no need to get involved. Just brings the sport into the gutter.

[Armagh18]

Nah, we looking bans/fines for subs and backroom staff all getting involved from the sidelines when they no need to get involved. Just brings the sport into the gutter.

The thing about this incident in particular is the game was over so naturally subs/management will be out of the dugout anyway for a cooldown/team huddle/handshake. Agreed that in general though big punishment for non players running on to get involved in handbags.

[naka]

Maurice deegan ref next week

[Orior]

When is the banter commencing?

[tonto1888]

All Armagh players have had their suspensions overturned