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Messages - David McKeown

#31
General discussion / Re: Lurgan
December 07, 2023, 11:21:26 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 07, 2023, 10:16:39 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on December 07, 2023, 10:09:03 PMRestaurant recommendations in Lurgan, Jim?

I've always found it to be 100% and as previously said, not a pile different than a lot of other similar sized towns around it. One thing was always different for me however. It always seemed that there were more people in the bars in Lurgan than in the other towns. I mean day drinkers, midweek drinkers etc. A great drinking town as you would hear people say. Not sure it still rings true today.

And another thing. I was in it around May in the blistering heat and trying to find a decent ice cream shop was nigh on impossible. You'd think they could sort that out!

I'm sure illdecide could have pointed you in the right direction....

Marshmallow ice in one of the Cafolla's surely the way to go
#32
Quote from: AustinPowers on December 07, 2023, 01:30:56 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on December 06, 2023, 09:49:24 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 06, 2023, 06:28:37 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on December 06, 2023, 08:35:26 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 05, 2023, 11:56:18 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on December 05, 2023, 07:20:24 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 05, 2023, 09:10:24 AMSpeeding fines

* 35mph in a while 30mph zone (I wasn't, 110%, I was at 30mph well before entering the 30mph zone.

* 1st letter arrives, NO right of appeal, asking me to confirm it was me

* 2nd letter asking me confirm I'll pay fine / take speed awareness

* 3rd letter then to confirm amount (£60 + a wee £5 Offender Levy, whatever that is)

* payment only by cheque (who the fcuk has had a cheque book the last 20 years??) or postal order. Went and got a postal order, £8.30 fee for it.
The girl behind the counter @ the Post Office  asked me 'The Clerk of Petty Sessions?, we'll have another 50 of those today, and everyday.

So a nice wee total of £73.30 for going 30mph in a 30mph zone... 110% that speed gun was pointed a couple of hundred yards down the road.

3 x letters, postal order or cheque, the 'offence' happened early September.... Is it 2023 of 1973?!


Me.

So you paid  £60 fine.  Now what?  Do you have to take the speed awareness  course and/or got penalty points?

Fine and penalty points.

There was a one in Ballymena court last year.  A defendant representing himself started speaking about how the calibration result recorded in the police officer's statement was outside the operating range by 0.1m.  The judge asked sure what difference would that make you were 15mph over the limit.  The defendant started to explain the maths to him and the Judge replied.  That's all well and good but why should I take your word for it.  The defendant responded well I run the company that holds the contract for calibrating all the speed guns for all the police forces in the UK so I kinda know what I am talking about.  I don't think I have ever seen the judge as lost for words

David, I heard a story once. Not sure if true.  You could help.

Someone was once charged with speeding and stopped. They were told they were X over the limit.

He asked the cop when was the speed gun last calibrated and he asked to see a certificate of when it was calibrated last.

Does it have to be calibrated every day and could you request to see it? If not, is the speed fine still valid?

I suppose it's a technicality more than anything else.

Strange you should mention this as its become somewhat of a cause celebre for me this last year or so.  Building on from that earlier Ballymena story I ended up representing that guy in the case.  The position is that per guidance on the use of the gun is as follows.  Before use they should be checked this is known as a conformity check.  The results should be noted.  The conformity check doesn't assess if the gun is calibrated properly at all distances simply that they are working correctly at an exact distance making it more likely they are working at all distances.  A failure to perform the conformity check doesn't invalidate the reading but may result in the evidence from the gun being excluded.  In addition the gun must be calibrated once a year and if not can not be used.  The calibration also doesn't prove the gun is accurate (except at the exact moment it is calibrated).  You are entitled to see the certificate but it doesn't have to be produced immediately

Anyway since the Ballymena case I have had some success with the issue

So if someone was  caught speeding in a 30 zone, what's the recommended  path?

Take the points/fine , or go to court and  challenge the camera calibration ?

Each case turns on its own facts.  If you want to think about challenging I would speak to a solicitor.  The legal structures in NI are such that not as many technicalities result in acquittals as in England and Wales but some still do
#33
Quote from: marty34 on December 06, 2023, 06:28:37 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on December 06, 2023, 08:35:26 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 05, 2023, 11:56:18 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on December 05, 2023, 07:20:24 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 05, 2023, 09:10:24 AMSpeeding fines

* 35mph in a while 30mph zone (I wasn't, 110%, I was at 30mph well before entering the 30mph zone.

* 1st letter arrives, NO right of appeal, asking me to confirm it was me

* 2nd letter asking me confirm I'll pay fine / take speed awareness

* 3rd letter then to confirm amount (£60 + a wee £5 Offender Levy, whatever that is)

* payment only by cheque (who the fcuk has had a cheque book the last 20 years??) or postal order. Went and got a postal order, £8.30 fee for it.
The girl behind the counter @ the Post Office  asked me 'The Clerk of Petty Sessions?, we'll have another 50 of those today, and everyday.

So a nice wee total of £73.30 for going 30mph in a 30mph zone... 110% that speed gun was pointed a couple of hundred yards down the road.

3 x letters, postal order or cheque, the 'offence' happened early September.... Is it 2023 of 1973?!


Me.

So you paid  £60 fine.  Now what?  Do you have to take the speed awareness  course and/or got penalty points?

Fine and penalty points.

There was a one in Ballymena court last year.  A defendant representing himself started speaking about how the calibration result recorded in the police officer's statement was outside the operating range by 0.1m.  The judge asked sure what difference would that make you were 15mph over the limit.  The defendant started to explain the maths to him and the Judge replied.  That's all well and good but why should I take your word for it.  The defendant responded well I run the company that holds the contract for calibrating all the speed guns for all the police forces in the UK so I kinda know what I am talking about.  I don't think I have ever seen the judge as lost for words

David, I heard a story once. Not sure if true.  You could help.

Someone was once charged with speeding and stopped. They were told they were X over the limit.

He asked the cop when was the speed gun last calibrated and he asked to see a certificate of when it was calibrated last.

Does it have to be calibrated every day and could you request to see it? If not, is the speed fine still valid?

I suppose it's a technicality more than anything else.

Strange you should mention this as its become somewhat of a cause celebre for me this last year or so.  Building on from that earlier Ballymena story I ended up representing that guy in the case.  The position is that per guidance on the use of the gun is as follows.  Before use they should be checked this is known as a conformity check.  The results should be noted.  The conformity check doesn't assess if the gun is calibrated properly at all distances simply that they are working correctly at an exact distance making it more likely they are working at all distances.  A failure to perform the conformity check doesn't invalidate the reading but may result in the evidence from the gun being excluded.  In addition the gun must be calibrated once a year and if not can not be used.  The calibration also doesn't prove the gun is accurate (except at the exact moment it is calibrated).  You are entitled to see the certificate but it doesn't have to be produced immediately

Anyway since the Ballymena case I have had some success with the issue
#34
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2023, 12:49:37 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on December 06, 2023, 09:33:45 AM
Quote from: statto on December 06, 2023, 08:59:22 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 05, 2023, 11:56:18 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on December 05, 2023, 07:20:24 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 05, 2023, 09:10:24 AMSpeeding fines

* 35mph in a while 30mph zone (I wasn't, 110%, I was at 30mph well before entering the 30mph zone.

* 1st letter arrives, NO right of appeal, asking me to confirm it was me

* 2nd letter asking me confirm I'll pay fine / take speed awareness

* 3rd letter then to confirm amount (£60 + a wee £5 Offender Levy, whatever that is)

* payment only by cheque (who the fcuk has had a cheque book the last 20 years??) or postal order. Went and got a postal order, £8.30 fee for it.
The girl behind the counter @ the Post Office  asked me 'The Clerk of Petty Sessions?, we'll have another 50 of those today, and everyday.

So a nice wee total of £73.30 for going 30mph in a 30mph zone... 110% that speed gun was pointed a couple of hundred yards down the road.

3 x letters, postal order or cheque, the 'offence' happened early September.... Is it 2023 of 1973?!


Me.

So you paid  £60 fine.  Now what?  Do you have to take the speed awareness  course and/or got penalty points?

Fine and penalty points.
If your not within a certain threshold can you not do the course.  I was not so lucky a few months back and encountered the same shite around payment. 

Yes, I thought you could do the course  and by doing so,    avoided the points?
Depends how far over the speed limit you were

Also depends on availability of course in your area, if you've had it before and time between offence and request for the course.
#35
Quote from: JoG2 on December 05, 2023, 11:56:18 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on December 05, 2023, 07:20:24 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 05, 2023, 09:10:24 AMSpeeding fines

* 35mph in a while 30mph zone (I wasn't, 110%, I was at 30mph well before entering the 30mph zone.

* 1st letter arrives, NO right of appeal, asking me to confirm it was me

* 2nd letter asking me confirm I'll pay fine / take speed awareness

* 3rd letter then to confirm amount (£60 + a wee £5 Offender Levy, whatever that is)

* payment only by cheque (who the fcuk has had a cheque book the last 20 years??) or postal order. Went and got a postal order, £8.30 fee for it.
The girl behind the counter @ the Post Office  asked me 'The Clerk of Petty Sessions?, we'll have another 50 of those today, and everyday.

So a nice wee total of £73.30 for going 30mph in a 30mph zone... 110% that speed gun was pointed a couple of hundred yards down the road.

3 x letters, postal order or cheque, the 'offence' happened early September.... Is it 2023 of 1973?!


Me.

So you paid  £60 fine.  Now what?  Do you have to take the speed awareness  course and/or got penalty points?

Fine and penalty points.

There was a one in Ballymena court last year.  A defendant representing himself started speaking about how the calibration result recorded in the police officer's statement was outside the operating range by 0.1m.  The judge asked sure what difference would that make you were 15mph over the limit.  The defendant started to explain the maths to him and the Judge replied.  That's all well and good but why should I take your word for it.  The defendant responded well I run the company that holds the contract for calibrating all the speed guns for all the police forces in the UK so I kinda know what I am talking about.  I don't think I have ever seen the judge as lost for words
#36
General discussion / Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
October 02, 2023, 10:17:24 AM
All a bit clearer now.

If Ireland score 4 tries next week then they are through as long as they either win, draw or lose by anything other than 8-20 points.

If they don't score 4 tries then they are through if they draw, win or lose by less than 5 points. Or less than 7 with Scotland not scoring 4 tries.
#37
General discussion / Re: One Punch
September 28, 2023, 06:54:35 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 28, 2023, 05:54:30 PMIs it common in these kind of events that the person doesn't get charged David? Is this in any way related to the family not pursuing?

I don't know the ins and outs of how these things work but when I read about it I did think Doherty was in for a good few years at least in jail.

It's a very sad situation tbh. I doubt he meant to do what was done but leaving the boy there the way he did wasn't a good look either. No winners.

Its hard to say whats common and whats not because each case is usually fact specific. 

The actions after the fatal blow though rarely impact upon the decision to charge.

In any case resulting in a death the PPS have to apply a two stage test.  First is there a reasonable prospect of conviction?  Secondly is it in the public interest.  In cases like this involving a death the PPS have to consider two things at that first stage.  One can they prove that the defendant caused the death and secondly what level of intent can they prove.

If they can prove a defendant unlawfully caused a death and that he intended to cause that death or to cause really serious harm then they prosecute for murder.

If they can prove a defendant unlawfully caused a death but not intend to kill or cause really serious harm then they can prosecute for manslaughter.

If they cant prove the defendant unlawfully caused the death then no prosecution is the correct decision.

I say to show that what happens after the death is usually irrelevant save for times it would should the intent of the defendant.

From what I have read about this case it would appear that the issue was whether or not the defendant acted unlawfully.  If that's right nothing after the fatal blow is relevant.

The law also allows you to use self defence provided it is appropriate and proportionate to what you honestly believe is happening (not reasonably believe just honestly believe).  That seems to be the issue here as it is in a lot of one punch cases.  If the defendant was acting in accordance with an honest believe a single punch in self defence is likely to be considered proportionate and reasonable.  If thats the view of the PPS then a no prosecution decision is the correct one.

In answer to your other question, the views of the deceased's family will be considered if the first stage of the above test for prosecution is met but the views of the family will ultimately be unlikely to stop a prosecution as there's a considerable public interest in prosecuting all cases involving a death.  Also I see the family appear to have requested a review of the PPS decision not to prosecute. 

It is indeed a very sad situation for all involved   
#38
General discussion / Re: One Punch
September 28, 2023, 05:48:39 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on September 28, 2023, 05:33:49 PMRegardless of the legality of self defence or not his actions after it were horrendous. Who drags a human and dumps him at the side of a wall.

If you are in a car crash and leave you are charged with leaving the scene of an accident. How he got away with this I will never know

It appears he didn't commit a crime
#39
General discussion / Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
September 27, 2023, 04:53:32 PM
Quote from: gallsman on September 27, 2023, 04:28:03 PMIf all three end up on the same points, points difference is used to decide the group winner. H2H is then used to decide 2nd and 3rd between the other two.

A crazy way of doing things but that's how it is.

Yeah that's how I understand the tiebreakers work but RTE don't seem to agree
#40
General discussion / Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
September 27, 2023, 02:37:35 PM
RTE suggest if there's a three way tie then the lowest points difference is excluded and then head to head decides the other place but I don't think that's correct.  I think it's points difference to decide top spot then head to head to separate second and third.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby-world-cup/2023/0927/1407583-pool-permutations-what-ireland-need-to-do-to-qualify/

The RTE way would be better for Ireland but as I say I don't think it's right.
#41
General discussion / Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
September 25, 2023, 08:17:03 PM
Quote from: square_ball on September 25, 2023, 06:00:22 PMLose*

Thanks I'm heavily dyslexic so I find that really helpful and not at all condescending
#42
General discussion / Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
September 25, 2023, 04:53:32 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 25, 2023, 04:38:17 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on September 25, 2023, 04:02:46 PM
Quote from: Nanderson on September 24, 2023, 07:21:38 PM
Quote from: Rudi on September 24, 2023, 04:49:28 PMThe whining from SA about 11 points missed. 2 kicks from inside their own half, one of which hit the post, that lead directly to a 5 pointer. The try had a pass that was 5M forward, but apparently not forward. The lineout 1M apart rule was never policed. SA should have got a penalty towards the end of the game that wasn't given. Cian Healy is a huge loss, as Porter has to play at least 75mins per game, as Kilcoyne is a huge weak link. Bundee playing the rugby of his life.
I was reading the rules on a forward pass and as long as it comes out of the passers hands backwards the momentum of someone running forward can still cause the ball t drift forward. Seems to me like its very hard to ref and tbh they are probably just guessing what way it came out of the passers hands by the speed that they are running at.

Was there not a clear issue of crossing on the SA try?

Also I thought the ref blew the final maul too early and then tried to justify it by saying there was also a knock on although I wasnt watching ITV or RTE just some highlights so it may not have been the ref I was listening too.

Could all be for nothing too.  Still need 2 points to guarantee progress and if we don't get at least that there's a very good chance of elimination   

Exactly this, Scotland have been sticky enough for this Ireland team in the past?

Is there a way for Ireland to lose that game and still be in the top 2, bonus points and all that malarkey?

Yes if Ireland lose by less than 7 and neither team score 4 tries then Ireland top the group.
If Ireland loose by more than 7 and score more than 4 tries and Scotland don't score 4 tries Ireland top the group.
If Ireland loose by more than 7 and both teams score 4 tries then it will come down to score difference to determine the top places.  If Ireland have the best points differential then Ireland and South Africa are through in that order. If South Africa have the best differential then SA and Scotland are through.  If Scotland top it then Scotland and Ireland are through.

There are plenty of other permutations.
#43
General discussion / Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
September 25, 2023, 04:02:46 PM
Quote from: Nanderson on September 24, 2023, 07:21:38 PM
Quote from: Rudi on September 24, 2023, 04:49:28 PMThe whining from SA about 11 points missed. 2 kicks from inside their own half, one of which hit the post, that lead directly to a 5 pointer. The try had a pass that was 5M forward, but apparently not forward. The lineout 1M apart rule was never policed. SA should have got a penalty towards the end of the game that wasn't given. Cian Healy is a huge loss, as Porter has to play at least 75mins per game, as Kilcoyne is a huge weak link. Bundee playing the rugby of his life.
I was reading the rules on a forward pass and as long as it comes out of the passers hands backwards the momentum of someone running forward can still cause the ball t drift forward. Seems to me like its very hard to ref and tbh they are probably just guessing what way it came out of the passers hands by the speed that they are running at.

Was there not a clear issue of crossing on the SA try?

Also I thought the ref blew the final maul too early and then tried to justify it by saying there was also a knock on although I wasnt watching ITV or RTE just some highlights so it may not have been the ref I was listening too.

Could all be for nothing too.  Still need 2 points to guarantee progress and if we don't get at least that there's a very good chance of elimination   
#44
General discussion / Re: The NI Legacy Bill
September 09, 2023, 09:45:02 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on September 08, 2023, 06:15:27 PM
Quote from: weareros on September 08, 2023, 06:07:26 PM
Lot of hypocrisy on this one. Back in 2005, Irish gov, Sinn Féin, DUP had agreed with Brits on an amnesty for everyone.

Yup, people conveniently forget about the "on the run" letters

I think it's a bit of a different situation. The on the run letters were probably necessary to comply with international law and the UK's obligations under the Geneva convention. The legacy bill on the other hand will no doubt be challenged and I wouldn't like to predict how compliant it might be.

Labour have said they will repeal it but withdrawal of immunity would be equally legally problematic
#45
Quote from: oakleaflad on September 04, 2023, 05:36:54 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on September 04, 2023, 05:26:53 PM
Quote from: oakleaflad on September 04, 2023, 02:21:00 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on September 04, 2023, 02:17:08 PM
Apologies I've been quite ill recently. It keeps telling me the league is full
I'm sorry to hear that. It looks like you've joined successfully now. Just let me know if there are any issues.

It still says to me that I can't join as the league is full
Looks like you're in. Shows as David's Definitive Team since you joined.

Hmm I still can't get in