Messages

Seafoid, the specific allegation was the Clinton cozied up to Wall St. and removed all restrictions via GLB.

Leveraging was not restricted beforehand, as we saw with the LBOs and the Junk Bonds that funded them in the 1980s. You have used words like, volume and scaling but neither of these had anything to do with GLB, and you know it, otherwise you would do what you (and I) normally do and provide a link as proof, which would stop me dead in my tracks.

The death of Moral Hazard wasn't included in GLB either. It was Hank Paulson and others that killed it, but only for financial institutions, the ordinary borrower still had to suffer Moral Hazard.

And as for combining Retail & Investment bankings, it happened before GLB passed in 1999: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citigroup

GS was already dead. Wall St had found loopholes and created new markets outside GS. Heganboy gave a very good outline of what happens there. That is what Wall St is all about, always has been and always will be.

Blaming Clinton is simply revisionism to suit an agenda for this year's election. Republicans push the notion, which is hypocrisy in the extreme, as GLB was their bill in the first place. But then people are stupid and swallow anything without doing their homework.

It was too late in 08 Muppet just like it is too late now to stop the next crash. My point is that Clinton threw petrol.on the fire. Every Prez since Reagan bears responsibility for the decimation of the working class which is now feeding back in the form of support for Trump. The Dems are as corrupt as the GOP.
Nobody could stop the 1% taking control of 42% of US wealth.
Now the US is fucked. 

Hillary will not stop the Gotterdammerung either.
Obama was a PR job.

I think Hillary will beat Trump, but in this election cycle expect the unexpected.

Hillary has a lot of skeletons and who knows what will happen with her legal issues between now and November.

I was listening to a radio show during the week, and Mark Halperin said that of the 3 Republicans left in the race, Trump would be the one Hillary fears most because he will go places (attack) no one else would even dream of going

The attack ads will be vicious. The presidency will be like the tea party years to the power of x.

[The piece of legislation cited broke down the walls between commercial and investment banking which had been erected in the 30s to keep a lid on speculation. RBS, UBS and others collapsed in 2008 because they speculated too far. Investment banks collapsed left, right and centre. Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch, Lehmans. Even Goldman Sachs went close to death]

The piece of legislation cited broke down the walls between commercial and investment banking  which had been erected in the 30s to keep a lid on speculation. RBS, UBS and others collapsed in 2008 because they speculated too far. Investment banks collapsed left, right and centre. Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch, Lehmans. Even Goldman Sachs went close to death

Clinton was a bad president.

Glass-Steagall didn't 'keep a lid on speculation'. Wall St. is all about market making and speculation and always has been. Glass-Stegall didn't keep a lid on the LBO craze of the 1980s, nor the Junk Bond fad that funded it all. For those that remember Gordon Gecko, he was based on the characters driving that fad.

As for the 2008 financial crisis, three instruments caused the bubble and subsequent crash more than anything else; the CDO, Synthetic-CDO and the CDS. The CDO was created in 1987, on Wall St. of course (by Drexel-Burnham-Lambert who went bust in the biggest scandal of the LBO era), and the CDS was created by JPMorgan in 1994. The Synthetic-CDO (I still don't understand it properly) was invented by JPMorgan in 1997. These three financial instruments causes the chaos more than anything else, and all were created under Glass-Steagall.

The reality is the companies like Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan etc are market makers. They are way ahead of the regulators and regulation. The ideology of some, Greenspan for example, was that the market would take care of itself. The line goes that if companies or individuals took excessive risks, then the market would punish them. But they were allowed to take the risks. Greenspan and others thought the ratings agencies would measure the risks appropriately and the market would take care of itself.

If Greenspan's ideology was allowed to run its course, most of Wall St. would have collapsed. I don't think that would have been a bad thing at all, as that is precisely what it deserved. The prudent and less reckless institutions would have taken the place of the reckless ones. But then Bush appointed Hank Paulson, who almost doubled the amount of dollars in circulation overnight and gave the new doe to Wall St.

Blaming Clinton is just silly.

Wrong, Muppet.
the 2 biggest boosters to the speculation that brought down the global economy in 2008 were the end of glass Steagal and the end of control on leverage (which Bush 2 did away with in 2004).

Clinton did nothing to stop the mess

Repeating the same line without any proof or back-up isn't adding anything.

I have shown that the CDOs, Synthetic-CDOs and CDS, which brought down the financial system in 2008, all existed under Glass-Steagall. It didn't prevent anything.

But I give up.

From now on I will just say:

Wrong Seafoid.

Leverage brought down the system. CDOs existed whatever but it was leverage of 30x that collapsed the system. The casino banks used the capital of the rest of the group to generate the leverage . GS facilitated that and then Bush 2 waved the increase in leverage.
the rating agencies were supposed to monitor risk and did not.
after Lehman it was estimated that getting leverage from 30 back down to 20 would cost 6 trillion plus hedge fund losses . The Fed chose to blow up another bubble.
Leverage is how the 1% ended up owning 42% of everything. Clinton was their man.

And Muppet could you tell us the volume of CDOs when Clinton was taking apart a pillar of financial safety and in 2008 ?

[/b]

Stop spoofing Seafoid.

If you can demonstrate that the repeal of Glass-Steagall was about 'volume' and nothing else, than I will concede. But in the absence of that, stop spoofing!

If you look at Average daily volume of shares traded on NYSE it went from 45m in 1980 to 412 m in 1996 to 1.04bn in 2000. Now it is around 1.5bn
http://www.nyxdata.com/nysedata/asp/factbook/viewer_edition.asp?mode=table&key=3141&category=3

Most of that is speculation

The whole point of the system is to use leverage to generate profits. Leverage magnifies profit. As long as prices go up.
Leverage went form an average of 15 AFAIK when Clinton was pres to 30 in 2008
The financial system became a suicidal automatic lawnmower https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mt6k2IeQ6U
hoovering up yield with no downside protection
It was all abou scaling it up for maxiumum profit.

Clinton faciliated that by doing away with GS. Bush and the leverage was the other key development.
CDOs in 96 were tiny.
By 2008 they were out of control.
the scaling up was the issue.

Do I have this right?

You are arguing that Gramm-Leach-Bliley allowed leveraging whereas before under GS it was prohibited?

You might reference the Leveraged Buyout scandals of the 1980s in your answer.

Leverage of 30x only happened later in the madness. GlB allowed more speculation . GS separated casino and utility banking. Clinton mixed the 2. The other thing was the death of moral hazard. There were so many bailouts 80s 90's wall st thought it was untouchable. I believe I can fly .

Clinton was useless. So was Blair

http://m.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/24_opt_out_of_a_clinton_trump_race

Ita nowhere near the blowout many are predicting

Whitey, i hear you on the popular vote and demographic profiling. And i think you are accurate.
The reality is that has very little to do with presedential results.
Even if what rasmussen posits comes to pass you still have a massive electoral college win for Clinton. And i mean massive. The issues for the GOP as it stands are not those of the presidential race itself, but rather how will it be viewed locally if i support or dont support Trump. Depending on turn out, trump running could shift both houses, a landslide and a majority in both houses for Hilary, as well as many local races that should be close going significantly one way or the other.
Let me just clarify "as it stands" with the news cycles as they are strange things, and wierdness can happen, especially in the 24 hours prior to voting. But as it looks right now, the trump prospect looks likely to bring out the middle, and they vote sane. The many local elections that will be completely upended by a strong centrist (currently dem leaning) voting public could actually break the GOP as we know it... 
Interesting times

The GOP Base is out of touch with the other 60% and has been decimated by GOP economic policies. Will not vote for a candidate chosen by the party.
The situation is very unstable. 

[The piece of legislation cited broke down the walls between commercial and investment banking which had been erected in the 30s to keep a lid on speculation. RBS, UBS and others collapsed in 2008 because they speculated too far. Investment banks collapsed left, right and centre. Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch, Lehmans. Even Goldman Sachs went close to death]

The piece of legislation cited broke down the walls between commercial and investment banking  which had been erected in the 30s to keep a lid on speculation. RBS, UBS and others collapsed in 2008 because they speculated too far. Investment banks collapsed left, right and centre. Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch, Lehmans. Even Goldman Sachs went close to death

Clinton was a bad president.

Glass-Steagall didn't 'keep a lid on speculation'. Wall St. is all about market making and speculation and always has been. Glass-Stegall didn't keep a lid on the LBO craze of the 1980s, nor the Junk Bond fad that funded it all. For those that remember Gordon Gecko, he was based on the characters driving that fad.

As for the 2008 financial crisis, three instruments caused the bubble and subsequent crash more than anything else; the CDO, Synthetic-CDO and the CDS. The CDO was created in 1987, on Wall St. of course (by Drexel-Burnham-Lambert who went bust in the biggest scandal of the LBO era), and the CDS was created by JPMorgan in 1994. The Synthetic-CDO (I still don't understand it properly) was invented by JPMorgan in 1997. These three financial instruments causes the chaos more than anything else, and all were created under Glass-Steagall.

The reality is the companies like Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan etc are market makers. They are way ahead of the regulators and regulation. The ideology of some, Greenspan for example, was that the market would take care of itself. The line goes that if companies or individuals took excessive risks, then the market would punish them. But they were allowed to take the risks. Greenspan and others thought the ratings agencies would measure the risks appropriately and the market would take care of itself.

If Greenspan's ideology was allowed to run its course, most of Wall St. would have collapsed. I don't think that would have been a bad thing at all, as that is precisely what it deserved. The prudent and less reckless institutions would have taken the place of the reckless ones. But then Bush appointed Hank Paulson, who almost doubled the amount of dollars in circulation overnight and gave the new doe to Wall St.

Blaming Clinton is just silly.

Wrong, Muppet.
the 2 biggest boosters to the speculation that brought down the global economy in 2008 were the end of glass Steagal and the end of control on leverage (which Bush 2 did away with in 2004).

Clinton did nothing to stop the mess

Repeating the same line without any proof or back-up isn't adding anything.

I have shown that the CDOs, Synthetic-CDOs and CDS, which brought down the financial system in 2008, all existed under Glass-Steagall. It didn't prevent anything.

But I give up.

From now on I will just say:

Wrong Seafoid.

Leverage brought down the system. CDOs existed whatever but it was leverage of 30x that collapsed the system. The casino banks used the capital of the rest of the group to generate the leverage . GS facilitated that and then Bush 2 waved the increase in leverage.
the rating agencies were supposed to monitor risk and did not.
after Lehman it was estimated that getting leverage from 30 back down to 20 would cost 6 trillion plus hedge fund losses . The Fed chose to blow up another bubble.
Leverage is how the 1% ended up owning 42% of everything. Clinton was their man.

And Muppet could you tell us the volume of CDOs when Clinton was taking apart a pillar of financial safety and in 2008 ?

[/b]

Stop spoofing Seafoid.

If you can demonstrate that the repeal of Glass-Steagall was about 'volume' and nothing else, than I will concede. But in the absence of that, stop spoofing!

If you look at Average daily volume of shares traded on NYSE it went from 45m in 1980 to 412 m in 1996 to 1.04bn in 2000. Now it is around 1.5bn
http://www.nyxdata.com/nysedata/asp/factbook/viewer_edition.asp?mode=table&key=3141&category=3

Most of that is speculation

The whole point of the system is to use leverage to generate profits. Leverage magnifies profit. As long as prices go up.
Leverage went form an average of 15 AFAIK when Clinton was pres to 30 in 2008
The financial system became a suicidal automatic lawnmower https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mt6k2IeQ6U
hoovering up yield with no downside protection
It was all abou scaling it up for maxiumum profit.

Clinton faciliated that by doing away with GS. Bush and the leverage was the other key development.
CDOs in 96 were tiny.
By 2008 they were out of control.
the scaling up was the issue.

George Orwell said something interesting in an article here .
https://secure.palmcoastd.com/ows-img/commentary/bestofpremium/Best%20of%20Commentary%20for%20iPad%2040s.pdf
Fascism couldn't happen in the UK unless one of the parties fell apart and the voters became available.

The Republican party is falling apart now. The voters are available.

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/04/19/trumps-putin-fantasy/

[The piece of legislation cited broke down the walls between commercial and investment banking which had been erected in the 30s to keep a lid on speculation. RBS, UBS and others collapsed in 2008 because they speculated too far. Investment banks collapsed left, right and centre. Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch, Lehmans. Even Goldman Sachs went close to death]

The piece of legislation cited broke down the walls between commercial and investment banking  which had been erected in the 30s to keep a lid on speculation. RBS, UBS and others collapsed in 2008 because they speculated too far. Investment banks collapsed left, right and centre. Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch, Lehmans. Even Goldman Sachs went close to death

Clinton was a bad president.

Glass-Steagall didn't 'keep a lid on speculation'. Wall St. is all about market making and speculation and always has been. Glass-Stegall didn't keep a lid on the LBO craze of the 1980s, nor the Junk Bond fad that funded it all. For those that remember Gordon Gecko, he was based on the characters driving that fad.

As for the 2008 financial crisis, three instruments caused the bubble and subsequent crash more than anything else; the CDO, Synthetic-CDO and the CDS. The CDO was created in 1987, on Wall St. of course (by Drexel-Burnham-Lambert who went bust in the biggest scandal of the LBO era), and the CDS was created by JPMorgan in 1994. The Synthetic-CDO (I still don't understand it properly) was invented by JPMorgan in 1997. These three financial instruments causes the chaos more than anything else, and all were created under Glass-Steagall.

The reality is the companies like Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan etc are market makers. They are way ahead of the regulators and regulation. The ideology of some, Greenspan for example, was that the market would take care of itself. The line goes that if companies or individuals took excessive risks, then the market would punish them. But they were allowed to take the risks. Greenspan and others thought the ratings agencies would measure the risks appropriately and the market would take care of itself.

If Greenspan's ideology was allowed to run its course, most of Wall St. would have collapsed. I don't think that would have been a bad thing at all, as that is precisely what it deserved. The prudent and less reckless institutions would have taken the place of the reckless ones. But then Bush appointed Hank Paulson, who almost doubled the amount of dollars in circulation overnight and gave the new doe to Wall St.

Blaming Clinton is just silly.

Wrong, Muppet.
the 2 biggest boosters to the speculation that brought down the global economy in 2008 were the end of glass Steagal and the end of control on leverage (which Bush 2 did away with in 2004).

Clinton did nothing to stop the mess

Repeating the same line without any proof or back-up isn't adding anything.

I have shown that the CDOs, Synthetic-CDOs and CDS, which brought down the financial system in 2008, all existed under Glass-Steagall. It didn't prevent anything.

But I give up.

From now on I will just say:

Wrong Seafoid.

Leverage brought down the system. CDOs existed whatever but it was leverage of 30x that collapsed the system. The casino banks used the capital of the rest of the group to generate the leverage . GS facilitated that and then Bush 2 waved the increase in leverage.
the rating agencies were supposed to monitor risk and did not.
after Lehman it was estimated that getting leverage from 30 back down to 20 would cost 6 trillion plus hedge fund losses . The Fed chose to blow up another bubble.
Leverage is how the 1% ended up owning 42% of everything. Clinton was their man.

And Muppet could you tell us the volume of CDOs when Clinton was taking apart a pillar of financial safety and in 2008 ? 

Seems everyone across the board feels Cruz is a complete t**ser, personally.

He was a major mover behind the shutdown in 2013. He is an evangelical fundi. He shares a lot of Trump's foreign policy notions. He thinks there is a huge fundi Christian bloc to take him over the winning line out there. There isn't.

The GOP is tearing itself apart. I haven't enjoyed a news story as much since the collapse of the news of the world.

sounds like your sitting in some room with msnbc cnn and Al Jazeera on 3 tvs and getting Twitter updates from jake tapper Rachel maddow and wolf blitzer

nybooks.com has the best analysis I think

Seems everyone across the board feels Cruz is a complete t**ser, personally.

He was a major mover behind the shutdown in 2013. He is an evangelical fundi. He shares a lot of Trump's foreign policy notions. He thinks there is a huge fundi Christian bloc to take him over the winning line out there. There isn't.

The GOP is tearing itself apart. I haven't enjoyed a news story as much since the collapse of the news of the world.

Jeez it's great to read how underrated the likes of mgloughlin ,AOS and Cillian are by neighbours who haven't a defender between them the last five years to manage them .but ye keep telling yourselves Mayo are sh ite up front good lads. Add in DOC too now too sure he's pure muck , even though a buck I'm working along with a former dub reckons DOC could be the best thing in the country at the moment but what would he know.

Larry if Mayo had one scoring forward to go with the freetaker and AOS they wouldn't have lost the last 2 semifinals. They do not have a "give me the f**king ball" forward to stand up in the last 3 minutes, agus is mor an trua e. 

Late april/early May is a very special time of the year . It's when the Longford  match threads appear.
They winter in the tropics or else in the bog perhaps.  Where they breed is unknown but they always appear just after the cherry blossoms

Good man Seafoid - you are correct. The Longford v X LSFC thread is like the first call of the cuckoo. A sure sign that the misery of winter is behind us and we have a summer to look forward to.

Well, some of us have 

In an update to the threatened walk-out it would appear nobody cares...........

I always look forward to it, Shamrock. And this winter was awful long .

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/29/ted-cruz-is-lucifer-in-the-flesh-says-former-speaker-john-boehner

Jesus. What happened to good old Hide and Seek in the garden? Or Tip the can?

Consumerism. Same thing on the beach in enniscrone with kids in wetsuits FFS

Counties that win do far less chopping and changing

Every county culls their panel before the championship.

Less chopping and changing equals stability. Dropping players frequently is a sign of incoherence. I have extensive experience of it as a Galway fan.