China Coronavirus

Started by lurganblue, January 23, 2020, 09:52:32 AM

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PadraicHenryPearse

Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 10:40:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years


See I don't think this is fair at all MR2. I've lost two very club mates at the same age in the past decade, from cancer. Covid might be dangerous, it might be topical, but it must not enjoy a monopoly on compassion.

One of Angelo's recurring points in the past 50 pages has been that Covid is trumping all other forms of essential care, and querying whether we will regret this move. Please don't now evolve this into Covid trumping all other forms of compassion.

If that is one of his points then overloading the health system with covid cases because he wants people to live does not help people that need essential care it has the opposite effect.


thewobbler

Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 10:50:53 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 10:40:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years


See I don't think this is fair at all MR2. I've lost two very club mates at the same age in the past decade, from cancer. Covid might be dangerous, it might be topical, but it must not enjoy a monopoly on compassion.

One of Angelo's recurring points in the past 50 pages has been that Covid is trumping all other forms of essential care, and querying whether we will regret this move. Please don't now evolve this into Covid trumping all other forms of compassion.

If that is one of his points then overloading the health system with covid cases because he wants people to live does not help people that need essential care it has the opposite effect.



No doubt.

That's the conundrum. But he's still not wrong to point out that there is a conundrum. Covid clearly has the potential to overstretch (and then some) the reactive purpose of a health service. But lockdowns have the potential to decimate the proactive care purpose of a health service.

Until there's more data I do think we have to follow the current course, much as it frustrates me. It's going to be a very interesting winter.

sid waddell

Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 10:45:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 10:31:23 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 10:17:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 17, 2020, 09:56:57 PM
They've already been seen. They're long term in that the people who have them will have to live with them for the long term.

I don't live my life in fear but am privileged enough to be able to work from home. I wouldn't fancy working in a factory for example.

There is balance somewhere. While there are so many unknowns you need to err on the side of caution. Your suggestion doesn't have balance though. (Assuming it is let rip which it seems to be)

its inadvertently let it rip, as from what i can gather it is to do what we were doing pre the increase in numbers but expect a different outcome and if some 80+ yr old people die so be it, they had a good life., the rest of us can enjoy our lifes. Also dont worry about what happens if numbers increase to a level that hospitals cannot deal with.
One of the most insidiously abhorrent aspects of the Covid deniers is the way they're attempting to portray themselves as being concerned with the well being of society when they're actually pushing an anarcho-capitalist, individualist, US right-wing libertarian view of the world which gives not one flying piece of excrement about society

A total lie, in other words

It's really gross

What's also gross:

1. That you can only deal in extremes and will respond to queries and frustrations with government Covid policy, by labelling posters as Covid deniers.

2. That you can't just leave it at that, but you also have to add in a splurge of nonsensical bile about politics, even though political options in Ireland are remarkably centric.

3. That you feel the need to post this identical message every 2-3 days.
There's nothing extreme in what I said at all, it's the reality

You seem to hate reality being pointed out - which seems pretty extreme to me

Also you seem to be unable to deal in anything other than straw men

Speaking of straw men, one of your most noteworthy contributions to this thread was to portray the reduction in crowd sizes at sporting events as a bad faith attack on the GAA

That contribution didn't age well, did it?

Sadly that sort of stuff has been part of a rich tapestry where you are concerned



sid waddell

Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 10:40:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years


See I don't think this is fair at all MR2. I've lost two very club mates at the same age in the past decade, from cancer. Covid might be dangerous, it might be topical, but it must not enjoy a monopoly on compassion.

One of Angelo's recurring points in the past 50 pages has been that Covid is trumping all other forms of essential care, and querying whether we will regret this move. Please don't now evolve this into Covid trumping all other forms of compassion.
So how would a large rise in Covid cases improve care for cancer patients?

Unless one thinks it would, there's literally no reason to make the point, and thus the point becomes bankrupt


PadraicHenryPearse

Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 10:59:06 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 10:50:53 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 10:40:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years


See I don't think this is fair at all MR2. I've lost two very club mates at the same age in the past decade, from cancer. Covid might be dangerous, it might be topical, but it must not enjoy a monopoly on compassion.

One of Angelo's recurring points in the past 50 pages has been that Covid is trumping all other forms of essential care, and querying whether we will regret this move. Please don't now evolve this into Covid trumping all other forms of compassion.

If that is one of his points then overloading the health system with covid cases because he wants people to live does not help people that need essential care it has the opposite effect.



No doubt.

That's the conundrum. But he's still not wrong to point out that there is a conundrum. Covid clearly has the potential to overstretch (and then some) the reactive purpose of a health service. But lockdowns have the potential to decimate the proactive care purpose of a health service.

Until there's more data I do think we have to follow the current course, much as it frustrates me. It's going to be a very interesting winter.

its not the lockdown that decimates the proactive care. the lockdowns are as a result of increases in people getting covid. the increases in the level of covid are the reason for the decimate proactive care not lockdowns, lockdowns are a result of incresased covid the same as decimated proactive care are.

thewobbler

Sid if cases are rising all across Europe, which they are, you really should start asking yourself whether limiting crowds at outdoor venues for a sport which is only played in Ireland, is part of that pattern.


thewobbler

Padraig it's a fair point - what I should have said it's that an emphasis on Covid that decimates the potential of proactive care.

It's also fully understandable approach in the short term.

thewobbler

Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:04:05 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 10:40:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years


See I don't think this is fair at all MR2. I've lost two very club mates at the same age in the past decade, from cancer. Covid might be dangerous, it might be topical, but it must not enjoy a monopoly on compassion.

One of Angelo's recurring points in the past 50 pages has been that Covid is trumping all other forms of essential care, and querying whether we will regret this move. Please don't now evolve this into Covid trumping all other forms of compassion.
So how would a large rise in Covid cases improve care for cancer patients?

Unless one thinks it would, there's literally no reason to make the point, and thus the point becomes bankrupt

At no point have I suggested it would.

I did point out that healthcare currently has a conundrum. I also suggested that I agree with the current policy even if it frustrates me.

But I guess you're out looking for a fight. That's what you do.

sid waddell

Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:05:23 PM
Sid if cases are rising all across Europe, which they are, you really should start asking yourself whether limiting crowds at outdoor venues for a sport which is only played in Ireland, is part of that pattern.
Go back to the point

You portrayed the reduction in crowd sizes as a bad faith attack on the GAA

Crowds at GAA matches as well as celebrations have contributed, and likely quite significantly, to the spread of Covid

You were simply wrong in what you said - it was not a bad faith attack on the GAA at all but one element of a good faith attempt to try and stop the spread of the virus - but your attack was an obvious bad faith character assassination on the part of those making the regulations

It is in fact the GAA which has contributed to a bad faith attack on society by continually cocking two fingers at the effort to stop the spread of the virus

An organisation which is supposed to be about community well being decided it didn't care not just about the well being of the country, but of the very local communities its supposed to represent

And, sadly, neanderthal attitudes like yours were front and centre in that

thewobbler

By the way Sid. In case you deliberately missed it. When I described you as dealing in extremes, it is in how you label anyone querying government policy on Covid as a "Covid denier". That's extremism of the most extreme form. Basically you contort anyone raising an eyebrow to your viewpoint into being on your right, and therefore a right wing fascist murdering **** who hates people, and can only feel like this because they've been duped by some websites only you've ever heard of.

You're an extremist buddy. Property extreme.

thewobbler

Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:13:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:05:23 PM
Sid if cases are rising all across Europe, which they are, you really should start asking yourself whether limiting crowds at outdoor venues for a sport which is only played in Ireland, is part of that pattern.
Go back to the point

You portrayed the reduction in crowd sizes as a bad faith attack on the GAA

Crowds at GAA matches as well as celebrations have contributed, and likely quite significantly, to the spread of Covid

You were simply wrong in what you said - it was not a bad faith attack on the GAA at all but one element of a good faith attempt to try and stop the spread of the virus - but your attack was an obvious bad faith character assassination on the part of those making the regulations

It is in fact the GAA which has contributed to a bad faith attack on society by continually cocking two fingers at the effort to stop the spread of the virus

An organisation which is supposed to be about community well being decided it didn't care not just about the well being of the country, but of the very local communities its supposed to represent

And, sadly, neanderthal attitudes like yours were front and centre in that

Sid I'm entirely on point.

Covid cases are rising across Europe. Everywhere. The pattern you'll find is that humans are social creatures, and will go out of their way to meet each other. The pattern you won't find is that places where attendance at outdoor sporting venues was strictly limited to 200 people, have kept it under control.

Only one of us is dealing in "it is in fact".

The other has a narrative to fulfil.


sid waddell

Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:10:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:04:05 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 10:40:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years


See I don't think this is fair at all MR2. I've lost two very club mates at the same age in the past decade, from cancer. Covid might be dangerous, it might be topical, but it must not enjoy a monopoly on compassion.

One of Angelo's recurring points in the past 50 pages has been that Covid is trumping all other forms of essential care, and querying whether we will regret this move. Please don't now evolve this into Covid trumping all other forms of compassion.
So how would a large rise in Covid cases improve care for cancer patients?

Unless one thinks it would, there's literally no reason to make the point, and thus the point becomes bankrupt

At no point have I suggested it would.

I did point out that healthcare currently has a conundrum. I also suggested that I agree with the current policy even if it frustrates me.

But I guess you're out looking for a fight. That's what you do.

By mentioning the "point" as a serious one worthy of respect, there is a logical implication there that one should at least consider the possibility that cancer patients or patients suffering from other non-Covid medical problems would get better care in a situation where Covid spread continues to increase

But there is no possibility of that happening - if Covid spread continues to increase, it is all but certain that care for those patients will be worse

Therefore there is no reason to mention a ludicrous point as being something being worthy of consideration

Because the point is self-evidently ludicrous and not worthy of discussion


sid waddell

Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:22:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:13:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:05:23 PM
Sid if cases are rising all across Europe, which they are, you really should start asking yourself whether limiting crowds at outdoor venues for a sport which is only played in Ireland, is part of that pattern.
Go back to the point

You portrayed the reduction in crowd sizes as a bad faith attack on the GAA

Crowds at GAA matches as well as celebrations have contributed, and likely quite significantly, to the spread of Covid

You were simply wrong in what you said - it was not a bad faith attack on the GAA at all but one element of a good faith attempt to try and stop the spread of the virus - but your attack was an obvious bad faith character assassination on the part of those making the regulations

It is in fact the GAA which has contributed to a bad faith attack on society by continually cocking two fingers at the effort to stop the spread of the virus

An organisation which is supposed to be about community well being decided it didn't care not just about the well being of the country, but of the very local communities its supposed to represent

And, sadly, neanderthal attitudes like yours were front and centre in that

Sid I'm entirely on point.

Covid cases are rising across Europe. Everywhere. The pattern you'll find is that humans are social creatures, and will go out of their way to meet each other. The pattern you won't find is that places where attendance at outdoor sporting venues was strictly limited to 200 people, have kept it under control.

Only one of us is dealing in "it is in fact".

The other has a narrative to fulfil.
Humans are indeed social creatures, but the more close social contact there is during this pandemic, the more the virus will spread

The pattern you'll find is that the more people avoid close social contact, the less the virus has the potential to spread

That's a fact, not narrative

But what else is portraying a reduction in crowd size as "an attack on the GAA" other than a bullshit narrative

What you were engaging in was Covid NIMBYism

You should take up this point about us being social creatures with the virus itself, maybe it'll listen and make an exception where it won't spread during club GAA games and celebrations, a sort of a ceasefire, maybe a bit like those three day IRA ceasefires at Christmas back in the day





thewobbler

Do you really find it ludicrous to consider that a health service might retain a provision for breast and prostate cancer screening, during a pandemic?

Is a health service really a single homogenous entity that should focus solely on one problem at a time?

thewobbler

Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:33:00 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:22:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:13:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:05:23 PM
Sid if cases are rising all across Europe, which they are, you really should start asking yourself whether limiting crowds at outdoor venues for a sport which is only played in Ireland, is part of that pattern.
Go back to the point

You portrayed the reduction in crowd sizes as a bad faith attack on the GAA

Crowds at GAA matches as well as celebrations have contributed, and likely quite significantly, to the spread of Covid

You were simply wrong in what you said - it was not a bad faith attack on the GAA at all but one element of a good faith attempt to try and stop the spread of the virus - but your attack was an obvious bad faith character assassination on the part of those making the regulations

It is in fact the GAA which has contributed to a bad faith attack on society by continually cocking two fingers at the effort to stop the spread of the virus

An organisation which is supposed to be about community well being decided it didn't care not just about the well being of the country, but of the very local communities its supposed to represent

And, sadly, neanderthal attitudes like yours were front and centre in that

Sid I'm entirely on point.

Covid cases are rising across Europe. Everywhere. The pattern you'll find is that humans are social creatures, and will go out of their way to meet each other. The pattern you won't find is that places where attendance at outdoor sporting venues was strictly limited to 200 people, have kept it under control.

Only one of us is dealing in "it is in fact".

The other has a narrative to fulfil.
Humans are indeed social creatures, but the more close social contact there is during this pandemic, the more the virus will spread

The pattern you'll find is that the more people avoid close social contact, the less the virus has the potential to spread

That's a fact, not narrative

But what else is portraying a reduction in crowd size as "an attack on the GAA" other than a bullshit narrative

What you were engaging in was Covid NIMBYism

You should take up this point about us being social creatures with the virus itself, maybe it'll listen and make an exception where it won't spread during club GAA games and celebrations, a sort of a ceasefire, maybe a bit like those three day IRA ceasefires at Christmas back in the day

And once more I will attempt to explain this to you.

Covid is rising across Europe.

This because people have been meeting people across Europe.

Almost none (certainly I can't think of any) of these countries have coordinated community games on a level of frequency and structure as the GAA.

But you know what people do when associations don't provide facilities? They meet up anyway. In beaches, lakes, parks, pubs, restaurants, swimming pools, theme parks, shopping centres, schools, work, public buildings.

And the fucken thing spreads.

Did the GAA prevent the spread of Covid this year? No. Did it cause the spread of Covid this year, equally no.