Down Club Hurling & Football

[PTC]

Another big result for ballyholland tonight, should be a tight game with the bridge next week in the championship. Castlewellan have left themselves a lot to do

[RadioGAAGAA]

I was just wondering why you haven't included Portaferry to Annaclone?
Down teams won all Ireland's in the 90's training in Ballykinlar all winter.  The sand pitch meant they played on a firm sod all year so had an advantage over other counties.

Never thought to include portaferry as I never considered placing hurling and football centres in the same place.

Is there any other club south of Downpatrick bar the Fontenoys that hurls at a high standard?


Pitch construction has moved on an awful lot since the 90s.

[Mourne Rover]

Wobbler, there may well be `any amount' of Down students heading to Dublin for four years but a quick check of the red and black jerseys around the Holylands suggests there are still plenty heading in the other direction. The number of county players produced for us by UCD and TCD compared to QUB and UUJ may change someday but remains pretty low at the moment.  Looking at the squad picture of our 1994 AI champions back at Croke Park for the 25th anniversary should remind us how well balanced that group was between south and east Down, and how that has traditionally been the case with our successful sides. A location for our training complex somewhere close to the centre of our county makes solid sense.  Slightly separately, congratulations to Carryduff for effectively if not mathematically securing the only promotion place into D1 tonight.

[qubdub]

I think using Dublin based players as an excuse not to go ahead with Ballykinlar is clutching at straws. There are men that travel from Dublin to Tyrone, Donegal etc to train with their counties and to suggest Down men are any less committed to their County is disrespectful bordering on cynical. I think the real issue is the south down men will have to go further than Newry to reach this new facility 

[thewobbler]

I think using Dublin based players as an excuse not to go ahead with Ballykinlar is clutching at straws. There are men that travel from Dublin to Tyrone, Donegal etc to train with their counties and to suggest Down men are any less committed to their County is disrespectful bordering on cynical. I think the real issue is the south down men will have to go further than Newry to reach this new facility 

Which, with the greatest respect, is a parochial and simplistic mindset.

——


There is no mythical border between hilltown and Kilcoo.

But there's a very real one just outside Newry.

——

Mayo run training in Dublin for their Dublin based players. They do this because fellas based in Dublin cannot make the 3 hour journey to Castlebar to do laps.

—-

This is where we are heading.

[Smurfy123]

Newry is where it is at men.
No disrespect but that's where the sponsors are all based and it's the hub of the county
EOS
FD
CC
FPM
MURDOCKS
MCCARTANS

All those signs behind the goals and all based in and around Newry
Whether some like it or not East Down has little or no pulling power in terms of money.

[6th sam]

Newry is where it is at men.
No disrespect but that's where the sponsors are all based and it's the hub of the county
EOS
FD
CC
FPM
MURDOCKS
MCCARTANS

All those signs behind the goals and all based in and around Newry
Whether some like it or not East Down has little or no pulling power in terms of money.

It's all about the money , money , money.
Surely , if we've learnt anything about the GAA in recent years, slavish adherence to money based decisions is ruining the GAA.
Agree entirely with wobbler regarding sensibly looking at feasibility and An emphasis of future proofing of any option and that therefore must include a choice(s) accessible to the largest population bases and workplace areas.  Ie north down/belfast, newry and Dublin.
I think we should certainly promote ballykinlar because it can be turned round quickly and cost effectively And is accessible to several east down clubs who have limited facilities . It will hopefully increase participation in these areas. It will provide much needed daytime and floodlit options for clubs, schools , colleges and at least underage county squads . With demographic considerations , as per wobbler , we also need senior county training facilities in newry. Has the link with Abbey not served us well in this regard, and presumably could continue . Ballykinlar would be a suitable base for weekend activity, but we probably need also to have a newry option for midweek training.
My favoured future proof model in keeping with environmental, cost , participation and manpower considerations , is to provide new or upgraded accessible facilities throughout our county which can be maintained by local clubs and schools, and have a centre of excellence as a weekend hub of activity(Ballykinlar is probably best option for a variety of reasons, eg immediate availability, low cost, planning friendliness , soil constitution, weather, and local need).
I would agree re sponsors and Newry to a certain extent but this is a chicken and egg scenario whereby if everything's based in newry then your only likely to attract newry sponsors . Presumably even newry sponsors would want to widen their net, and tapping into belfast /north down has potential for new sponsors.
I emphasise to a certain extent with Those concerned regarding journey times to ballykinlar as those from my neck of the woods have had to endure years of travelling over an hour to Newry for years.

[Smurfy123]

Great points 6th Sam and I agree with you on all
Was just saying about the sponsors
For what it's worth I think ballykinlar should be our training hub and keep the abbey link and then obviously all matches in Newry

[6th sam]

Great points 6th Sam and I agree with you on all
Was just saying about the sponsors
For what it's worth I think ballykinlar should be our training hub and keep the abbey link and then obviously all matches in Newry

I think the sponsor/newry point is well
Made, the bulk of business funding for Down comes from in and around Newry and we should be careful not to bite the hands that feeds us. Páirc Esler is an outstanding venue of which we can be proud and it's usage should be maximised , not least to ensure we continue to attract newry based sponsors, but there potentially are untapped areas of business funding further north & the growing strength of bredagh and Carryduff reinforces the need to engage more with more northern parts of the county. Though I can totally appreciate many of the anti-ballykinlar arguments, we are probably at least 7 or 8 years off any other centre of excellence option, and I genuinely feel that if we hold off it may never happen. I feel we could steal a march on other counties by amending and future proofing the "centre of excellence " model , by having it in Ballykinlar for our hurlers , footballers at weekends and underage squads and schools , but also using satellite centres available in Belfast ( Queen's) and Newry (Abbey) to ensure that its senior player friendly . As we go forward And increasing s&c demands , players should be able to do s&c close to home, and have quality grass pitches/s&c, medical and conferencing facilities for weekend (fri-sun) sessions( Ballykinlar) with 1-2 Midweek senior training sessions in Newry/belfast on a floodlit grass pitch with back up facilities . I feel This is the best sustainable model based on all current and future consideration, though I stand corrected if someone can come up with a better alternative .
Ploughing all our money into a large centre of excellence in Newry is a long way off , is totally inaccessible to our hurlers and east/North Down. The Ballykinlar development will provide focus and momentum for Down going forward and will hopefully engage hurling and those in the east/north of the county that feel we've been too newry-centric. We are a large population county, let's do a Dublin -widen the net , increase the participation and maximise our resources ( including rented facilities) .
I would have shared the serious reservations about Ballykinlar but now I definitely see it as our best "hub" option , with rented back up facilities in Newry and Belfast.

[qubdub]

Interesting to note that our neighbours in Armagh have recently approved ambitious plans for a new training complex. Where? Portadown. No panic about sponsors, prime location etc.

[terrifictommy]

Moan if the county board take action, moan if they don't. Moan they try to develop a strategy and base for future, ridicule their decision. Criticise people for not making a decision 2 decades ago, argue with what they're trying to do now.

Arguably 9 of the last starting team would be closer to Ballykinlar than Newry, would that be right? Players from Bredagh, Carryduff, Castlewellan, Bryansford, Loughinisland, Longstone, Kilcoo. The rest surely the difference is minimal, thoughts?

[thewobbler]

Tommy if you're looking at the make-up of last year's starting team, instead of future population trends, then I hope you're not involved in strategy for anything, anywhere.

[terrifictommy]

Wobbler - Is there a correlation between demographics and those in the county team? How many Newry based footballers have been on the county panel in recent times? We can all talk about the pull of labour to the urban areas such as Dublin, but the game has moved away from the blue collar workers to more white collar in my opinion. And you talk about strategy - What's your strategy? Spend outside their budget for somewhere in Newry or surrounding, with less space? Sounds good, where do I sign up.

[6th sam]

Moan if the county board take action, moan if they don't. Moan they try to develop a strategy and base for future, ridicule their decision. Criticise people for not making a decision 2 decades ago, argue with what they're trying to do now.

Arguably 9 of the last starting team would be closer to Ballykinlar than Newry, would that be right? Players from Bredagh, Carryduff, Castlewellan, Bryansford, Loughinisland, Longstone, Kilcoo. The rest surely the difference is minimal, thoughts?

It's unfair to describe rationale debate as moaning.
As a strategy for the county , we need to
Make it as easy as possible for our senior county players given that they are likely to be either working full time or full time students thus it's reasonable to try to minimise travel time/expenses. We already have access to the Abbey which works well and similarly some senior/u20 training in Belfast midweek makes sense . However as a weekend hub it should be central and in the absence of a realistic alternative in the Castlewellan-hilltown corridor , Ballykinlar is the best alternative . It's handy to the bulk of our senior footballers and hurlers  especially at the weekend with less traffic and more free time. There are several areas of Tyrone and Donegal much less accessible to their excellence centres than newry is to Ballykinlar . There Is no club in Down further away from Ballykinlar than several of our current county players are from Newry. There is no other realistic alternative. Ballykinlar it is then, let's make it happen.

[downjim]

Castlewellan to go straight down, RGU v the Bridge in a play off