The Offical Glasgow Celtic thread

[Angelo]

Is the truth here just simply that Scottish football is pretty poor? The squads are stocked with players who's baseline in England would be bottom third of the second tier. It is going to be exceptionally difficult, coming from that base to compete in Europe. Yes Celtic have more money that many of the sides they have come up short against. But that money is generated because an audience is prepared to follow a team dominating a poor quality league. So money yes but the key football facts don't change.

Against all of that nobody should be under any delusions on where Lennon sits as a manager. He was a free agent in the past after his first stint as Celtic manager. You could list the offers from England on the back of a postage stamp that was shrunk in the wash.

Not sure what reputation Stevie G thinks he is building in Scotland. He probably will get some English offers but I guess that will be based on his name as a player rather as a manager

Pretty much all of Celtic's starting XI would hold its own in the EPL.

None of Celtic's starting XI have proven themselves in the EPL so I don't know how you can believe that. Only Edouard is even been linked with a transfer to EPL or European side. Look at the teams who have knocked Celtic out of Europe in recent seasons: Cluj, Copenhagen, Ferenvaros. None of whom would be even close to European football heavyweights or contenders.

The new signing from West Ham was a flop and not good enough for the EPL so what does is say about Celtic/Scottish football if he's expected to be their new star striker?

The likes of Everton, Burnley, Southampton etc have all done appallingly in the Europa League in recent years.

The EPL is not the pinnacle of football no matter what you think.

Ajeti certainly looks like a donkey, he doesn't look good enough for Celtic from the little bits so far.

Copenhagen took Man Utd to extra time a couple of weeks back. Sevilla eeked past Cluj in the EL as well.

The main issue for Celtic right now is a manager who is not up to the job and a board who are trying to pinch pennies at every corner. I don't think the quality of the squad is too bad overall, they just need a better manager in who needs to be backed financially.

You might not rate the EPL, but the standard is way above Scottish football. You still haven't replied to several of us why you think Celtic are an EPL standard team and their players are just as good as those in the EPL?

Only Edouard has shown anything resembling the ability an EPL footballer. Smashing 4/5 goals past St Mirren and Hamilton every week doesn't automatically qualify team/players as superstars.

There's so much ignorance in that post you wouldn't know where to start.

Nobody is saying the SPL is of an equivalent standard to the EPL but I think Celtic would survive comfortably with a decent manager down there. You seem to vastly, vastly overstimate the quality of the EPL outside the top six teams.

What's the ability of an EPL footballer? A guy like Jamie Vardy who spends his career in the English lower leagues and non-league and comes to the EPL in the twilight of his career and hits a century of goals?

I've seen the EPL, there are plenty of Irish international players getting their game there that would get nowhere near a Celtic team - Stevens, Egan, Long, McGoldrick, Hourihane, Hendrick etc etc.

You seem to brainwashed into thinking the EPL is the be all and end all.

Edouard is good enough to play for a top 4 team down there. The rest of the Celtic first team starters and fringe players are more than capable of holding their own at that level when you look at some players clocking up regular appearances.

If we say Liverpool, City, United and Chelsea are the EPL top 4 I think the chances of Edouard getting a regular start with any of those sides I s precisely zero.
I think the chances of the Christie, McGregor, Brown etc thriving in any PL side is also zero. That seems to be view of the EPL managers and scouts also

It seems you are another EPL cheerleader.

I'm sure plenty of people have said the same on guys like Van Dijk, Wanyama, Tierney etc in the past. Edouard is more than good enough for a top 4 EPL side, Brown would easily have held his own in the EPL in his pomp but he shouldn't be starting with Celtic these days. McGregor and Christie keep EPL regulars out of the Scottish national team.

[smelmoth]

Is the truth here just simply that Scottish football is pretty poor? The squads are stocked with players who's baseline in England would be bottom third of the second tier. It is going to be exceptionally difficult, coming from that base to compete in Europe. Yes Celtic have more money that many of the sides they have come up short against. But that money is generated because an audience is prepared to follow a team dominating a poor quality league. So money yes but the key football facts don't change.

Against all of that nobody should be under any delusions on where Lennon sits as a manager. He was a free agent in the past after his first stint as Celtic manager. You could list the offers from England on the back of a postage stamp that was shrunk in the wash.

Not sure what reputation Stevie G thinks he is building in Scotland. He probably will get some English offers but I guess that will be based on his name as a player rather as a manager

Pretty much all of Celtic's starting XI would hold its own in the EPL.

None of Celtic's starting XI have proven themselves in the EPL so I don't know how you can believe that. Only Edouard is even been linked with a transfer to EPL or European side. Look at the teams who have knocked Celtic out of Europe in recent seasons: Cluj, Copenhagen, Ferenvaros. None of whom would be even close to European football heavyweights or contenders.

The new signing from West Ham was a flop and not good enough for the EPL so what does is say about Celtic/Scottish football if he's expected to be their new star striker?

The likes of Everton, Burnley, Southampton etc have all done appallingly in the Europa League in recent years.

The EPL is not the pinnacle of football no matter what you think.

Ajeti certainly looks like a donkey, he doesn't look good enough for Celtic from the little bits so far.

Copenhagen took Man Utd to extra time a couple of weeks back. Sevilla eeked past Cluj in the EL as well.

The main issue for Celtic right now is a manager who is not up to the job and a board who are trying to pinch pennies at every corner. I don't think the quality of the squad is too bad overall, they just need a better manager in who needs to be backed financially.

You might not rate the EPL, but the standard is way above Scottish football. You still haven't replied to several of us why you think Celtic are an EPL standard team and their players are just as good as those in the EPL?

Only Edouard has shown anything resembling the ability an EPL footballer. Smashing 4/5 goals past St Mirren and Hamilton every week doesn't automatically qualify team/players as superstars.

There's so much ignorance in that post you wouldn't know where to start.

Nobody is saying the SPL is of an equivalent standard to the EPL but I think Celtic would survive comfortably with a decent manager down there. You seem to vastly, vastly overstimate the quality of the EPL outside the top six teams.

What's the ability of an EPL footballer? A guy like Jamie Vardy who spends his career in the English lower leagues and non-league and comes to the EPL in the twilight of his career and hits a century of goals?

I've seen the EPL, there are plenty of Irish international players getting their game there that would get nowhere near a Celtic team - Stevens, Egan, Long, McGoldrick, Hourihane, Hendrick etc etc.

You seem to brainwashed into thinking the EPL is the be all and end all.

Edouard is good enough to play for a top 4 team down there. The rest of the Celtic first team starters and fringe players are more than capable of holding their own at that level when you look at some players clocking up regular appearances.

Those highlighted would not only start for Celtic but would be amongst their best players. I like seeing Celtic do well as much as the next man but you're in absolute dreamland if you think their current team wouldn't be relegated from the Premier League.

Come off it.

We have better players on the bench that some of those.

Rogic is more ability in his little toe than Hourihane or Henrick, when you see those lads at international level you know how poor they are. Likewise Stevens, Taylor looks a far better player than them. Long getting in ahead of Edouard? Give me a break, I'd have a fit Griffiths ahead of him any day of the week too.

For some of those guys however, they are playing in sides with a manager who has his side well drilled and organised where players know exactly what they are doing. Celtic currently have a pub manager running the team.

Come off what?

Firstly, I agree regarding Edouard. That's why I didn't highlight Long (or McGoldrick). I'm also not sold on Lennon tactically for what it's worth.

You saying Taylor is a far better than Stephens doesn't make it true. I'd rather Stephens but could maybe entertain an argument that they are on a similar level. I honestly don't know how you can make the assumption he is far better.
Likewise with Rogic (who I think has some ability but can't stay fit). Let's just say i'd disagree.

I think Egan would be Celtic's best Centre half, Stephens would start at left back and Hendrick and Hourihane would probably start too. I'd like to think i'm fairly reasonable and open minded but saying they would get nowhere near a Celtic team is just wrong.

A fair assessment. But I would add that those guys are far from stars. The Sheffield Utd guys are doing well at the moment in a very well run team. Hourihane was in and out of a very poor Villa team and Hendrix could dropped several times from a team going backwards

[smelmoth]

Is the truth here just simply that Scottish football is pretty poor? The squads are stocked with players who's baseline in England would be bottom third of the second tier. It is going to be exceptionally difficult, coming from that base to compete in Europe. Yes Celtic have more money that many of the sides they have come up short against. But that money is generated because an audience is prepared to follow a team dominating a poor quality league. So money yes but the key football facts don't change.

Against all of that nobody should be under any delusions on where Lennon sits as a manager. He was a free agent in the past after his first stint as Celtic manager. You could list the offers from England on the back of a postage stamp that was shrunk in the wash.

Not sure what reputation Stevie G thinks he is building in Scotland. He probably will get some English offers but I guess that will be based on his name as a player rather as a manager

Pretty much all of Celtic's starting XI would hold its own in the EPL.

None of Celtic's starting XI have proven themselves in the EPL so I don't know how you can believe that. Only Edouard is even been linked with a transfer to EPL or European side. Look at the teams who have knocked Celtic out of Europe in recent seasons: Cluj, Copenhagen, Ferenvaros. None of whom would be even close to European football heavyweights or contenders.

The new signing from West Ham was a flop and not good enough for the EPL so what does is say about Celtic/Scottish football if he's expected to be their new star striker?

The likes of Everton, Burnley, Southampton etc have all done appallingly in the Europa League in recent years.

The EPL is not the pinnacle of football no matter what you think.

Ajeti certainly looks like a donkey, he doesn't look good enough for Celtic from the little bits so far.

Copenhagen took Man Utd to extra time a couple of weeks back. Sevilla eeked past Cluj in the EL as well.

The main issue for Celtic right now is a manager who is not up to the job and a board who are trying to pinch pennies at every corner. I don't think the quality of the squad is too bad overall, they just need a better manager in who needs to be backed financially.

You might not rate the EPL, but the standard is way above Scottish football. You still haven't replied to several of us why you think Celtic are an EPL standard team and their players are just as good as those in the EPL?

Only Edouard has shown anything resembling the ability an EPL footballer. Smashing 4/5 goals past St Mirren and Hamilton every week doesn't automatically qualify team/players as superstars.

There's so much ignorance in that post you wouldn't know where to start.

Nobody is saying the SPL is of an equivalent standard to the EPL but I think Celtic would survive comfortably with a decent manager down there. You seem to vastly, vastly overstimate the quality of the EPL outside the top six teams.

What's the ability of an EPL footballer? A guy like Jamie Vardy who spends his career in the English lower leagues and non-league and comes to the EPL in the twilight of his career and hits a century of goals?

I've seen the EPL, there are plenty of Irish international players getting their game there that would get nowhere near a Celtic team - Stevens, Egan, Long, McGoldrick, Hourihane, Hendrick etc etc.

You seem to brainwashed into thinking the EPL is the be all and end all.

Edouard is good enough to play for a top 4 team down there. The rest of the Celtic first team starters and fringe players are more than capable of holding their own at that level when you look at some players clocking up regular appearances.

Those highlighted would not only start for Celtic but would be amongst their best players. I like seeing Celtic do well as much as the next man but you're in absolute dreamland if you think their current team wouldn't be relegated from the Premier League.

Come off it.

We have better players on the bench that some of those.

Rogic is more ability in his little toe than Hourihane or Henrick, when you see those lads at international level you know how poor they are. Likewise Stevens, Taylor looks a far better player than them. Long getting in ahead of Edouard? Give me a break, I'd have a fit Griffiths ahead of him any day of the week too.

For some of those guys however, they are playing in sides with a manager who has his side well drilled and organised where players know exactly what they are doing. Celtic currently have a pub manager running the team.

Come off what?

Firstly, I agree regarding Edouard. That's why I didn't highlight Long (or McGoldrick). I'm also not sold on Lennon tactically for what it's worth.

You saying Taylor is a far better than Stephens doesn't make it true. I'd rather Stephens but could maybe entertain an argument that they are on a similar level. I honestly don't know how you can make the assumption he is far better.
Likewise with Rogic (who I think has some ability but can't stay fit). Let's just say i'd disagree.

I think Egan would be Celtic's best Centre half, Stephens would start at left back and Hendrick and Hourihane would probably start too. I'd like to think i'm fairly reasonable and open minded but saying they would get nowhere near a Celtic team is just wrong.

Egan is a carthorse, I don't think he makes the Celtic XI, Stephen is a player who has spent the vast majority of his career playing in the LOI and English lower leagues. He is 30 years of age and just after his first ever season in top flight football, he's a very average player and was playing in the 4th tier of English football 3 years ago. They happen to play for a very well coached and organised outfit though. When you see these lads in action for Ireland, you realise how poor they are. The only Irish player who I think would come in and improve the Celtic team right now is the guy they are after - Duffy. I think the rest of them would struggle to earn a spot. Coleman is finish, Doherty can't defend to save his life, they don't have a striker near the class of Edouard. Their midfield options available to Ireland are abysmal. McGregor, Christie, Rogic, Ntcham would all walk onto that Irish side.

Taylor has much more about him.

Big pay rises coming for these lads as Celtic ward off the offers from EPL🙄

[Angelo]

Is the truth here just simply that Scottish football is pretty poor? The squads are stocked with players who's baseline in England would be bottom third of the second tier. It is going to be exceptionally difficult, coming from that base to compete in Europe. Yes Celtic have more money that many of the sides they have come up short against. But that money is generated because an audience is prepared to follow a team dominating a poor quality league. So money yes but the key football facts don't change.

Against all of that nobody should be under any delusions on where Lennon sits as a manager. He was a free agent in the past after his first stint as Celtic manager. You could list the offers from England on the back of a postage stamp that was shrunk in the wash.

Not sure what reputation Stevie G thinks he is building in Scotland. He probably will get some English offers but I guess that will be based on his name as a player rather as a manager

Pretty much all of Celtic's starting XI would hold its own in the EPL.

None of Celtic's starting XI have proven themselves in the EPL so I don't know how you can believe that. Only Edouard is even been linked with a transfer to EPL or European side. Look at the teams who have knocked Celtic out of Europe in recent seasons: Cluj, Copenhagen, Ferenvaros. None of whom would be even close to European football heavyweights or contenders.

The new signing from West Ham was a flop and not good enough for the EPL so what does is say about Celtic/Scottish football if he's expected to be their new star striker?

The likes of Everton, Burnley, Southampton etc have all done appallingly in the Europa League in recent years.

The EPL is not the pinnacle of football no matter what you think.

Ajeti certainly looks like a donkey, he doesn't look good enough for Celtic from the little bits so far.

Copenhagen took Man Utd to extra time a couple of weeks back. Sevilla eeked past Cluj in the EL as well.

The main issue for Celtic right now is a manager who is not up to the job and a board who are trying to pinch pennies at every corner. I don't think the quality of the squad is too bad overall, they just need a better manager in who needs to be backed financially.

You might not rate the EPL, but the standard is way above Scottish football. You still haven't replied to several of us why you think Celtic are an EPL standard team and their players are just as good as those in the EPL?

Only Edouard has shown anything resembling the ability an EPL footballer. Smashing 4/5 goals past St Mirren and Hamilton every week doesn't automatically qualify team/players as superstars.

There's so much ignorance in that post you wouldn't know where to start.

Nobody is saying the SPL is of an equivalent standard to the EPL but I think Celtic would survive comfortably with a decent manager down there. You seem to vastly, vastly overstimate the quality of the EPL outside the top six teams.

What's the ability of an EPL footballer? A guy like Jamie Vardy who spends his career in the English lower leagues and non-league and comes to the EPL in the twilight of his career and hits a century of goals?

I've seen the EPL, there are plenty of Irish international players getting their game there that would get nowhere near a Celtic team - Stevens, Egan, Long, McGoldrick, Hourihane, Hendrick etc etc.

You seem to brainwashed into thinking the EPL is the be all and end all.

Edouard is good enough to play for a top 4 team down there. The rest of the Celtic first team starters and fringe players are more than capable of holding their own at that level when you look at some players clocking up regular appearances.

Those highlighted would not only start for Celtic but would be amongst their best players. I like seeing Celtic do well as much as the next man but you're in absolute dreamland if you think their current team wouldn't be relegated from the Premier League.

Come off it.

We have better players on the bench that some of those.

Rogic is more ability in his little toe than Hourihane or Henrick, when you see those lads at international level you know how poor they are. Likewise Stevens, Taylor looks a far better player than them. Long getting in ahead of Edouard? Give me a break, I'd have a fit Griffiths ahead of him any day of the week too.

For some of those guys however, they are playing in sides with a manager who has his side well drilled and organised where players know exactly what they are doing. Celtic currently have a pub manager running the team.

How do you explain the lack of scouting interest by the EPL in Scotland? And that includes Celtic. Celtic seem keen to move a few on. They might get decent money for one or two but there is hardly a frenzy of bids for those one or two and precisely zero for the bulk of the squad.

Do you read what you type?

Do you expect Celtic to sell their entire first team in one go? They usually cash in on one player to fund their signings each season.

Last year it was Tierney
The season before Dembele (and Armstrong)
They've done similar with Wanyama, Van Dijk and Forster

Celtic are in a very healthy financial position, no debt and a big cash reserve in the bank.

[ned]

Celtic would safely avoid relegation from EPL? That depends but it's like trying to compare great footballers from different eras. Pointless!
If Celtic were in the EPL the finances would be completely different, obviously, so the team would be much different.
My opinion is that Jullien, Ajer, Frimpong, McGregor, Forrest, Edouard, Moi and Ntcham would be at a level equal to most players in the EPL outside the top 7/8. Brown would have also made the list 3 or so years ago. There is a basis for a decent team there but possibly only 2 of those players would be near a Celtic, EPL boosted financial club.

[smelmoth]

Celtic are a Huge club hindered by lack of TV money, Lack of a main sponsor, Lack of major outside investment, receipts from away supporters, Location (weather wise) and a mediocre league. Their budget would improve ten fold if they were playing south of the border. But they are not playing south of the border and live off of scraps when it comes to surviving in the bigger world of Champions League qualification and Europa League competitiveness.


If they were playing south of the border all of the above would change. And change dramatically. But, the Man Utd's, Man Cities, Chelsea's, Liverpool's, Spurs, Arsenals would still be ahead of Celtic for a considerable amount of time.

I actually agree with this. The current Celtic team of today however would be doing very very well to avoid relegation from the Premier league.

That is a fair point FTB, however that's not much comfort to Celtic. They are a big fish in a small pond in Scotland.

They don't have the budget, the weather or the attraction of a competitive league to bring in top players so they are only going to slip further behind teams in the rest of Europe. They might pull out one off results now and again, but these will be the exception rather than the norm.

I thought that article posted earlier by the Glasgow journo was bang on. Lennon's press conferences for the last few years keep coming out with the same complaints and excuses. If he still can't get it right, he shouldn't be in charge

Finally if Angelo thinks that Celtic wouldn't get relegated from the Premier League with that back 4, especially those centre backs he's in dreamland again. Ajer can play a nice pass out from the back, but that wouldn't be much use when someone like Vardy would be making runs and he'd be chasing shadows unable to mark him

The current Celtic team with Neil Lennon in charge probably would struggle in the EPL.

But Sheffield United finished in the top half of the EPL last season and there is far more talent available in that Celtic squad. Burnley have been comfortable in the EPL for the last few years, you seem to making out the EPL is some sort of golden standard when it is jam packed with average players on huge wages.

Jeff Hendrick on £60/70k per week? Madness.

Where do get idea that people think EPL is a gold standard or the pinnacle. We are only saying that it's infinitely better than an extremely poor SPL. Forget about Celtic for moment and consider Motherwell, Hamilton, Dundee Utd, Livingston, St Mirren, St Johnstone, Kilmarnock and compare them with Wycombe, Rotterdam, Preston, Blackburn etc.

Scottish football is rubbish. By professional standards it very poor quality. All them victories by the Auld Firm sides against the like of Hamilton are essentially not worth troubling yourself with

[smelmoth]

Where would Rangers fit into all of this. As good as any Premiership side or a mid table Championship side?

The latter

[smelmoth]

Where would Rangers fit into all of this. As good as any Premiership side or a mid table Championship side?

Celtic have a much better playing squad than Rangers. I'd put Rangers on a similar level to Sheffield United talent wise.

Delusional

[smelmoth]

Is the truth here just simply that Scottish football is pretty poor? The squads are stocked with players who's baseline in England would be bottom third of the second tier. It is going to be exceptionally difficult, coming from that base to compete in Europe. Yes Celtic have more money that many of the sides they have come up short against. But that money is generated because an audience is prepared to follow a team dominating a poor quality league. So money yes but the key football facts don't change.

Against all of that nobody should be under any delusions on where Lennon sits as a manager. He was a free agent in the past after his first stint as Celtic manager. You could list the offers from England on the back of a postage stamp that was shrunk in the wash.

Not sure what reputation Stevie G thinks he is building in Scotland. He probably will get some English offers but I guess that will be based on his name as a player rather as a manager

Pretty much all of Celtic's starting XI would hold its own in the EPL.

None of Celtic's starting XI have proven themselves in the EPL so I don't know how you can believe that. Only Edouard is even been linked with a transfer to EPL or European side. Look at the teams who have knocked Celtic out of Europe in recent seasons: Cluj, Copenhagen, Ferenvaros. None of whom would be even close to European football heavyweights or contenders.

The new signing from West Ham was a flop and not good enough for the EPL so what does is say about Celtic/Scottish football if he's expected to be their new star striker?

The likes of Everton, Burnley, Southampton etc have all done appallingly in the Europa League in recent years.

The EPL is not the pinnacle of football no matter what you think.

Ajeti certainly looks like a donkey, he doesn't look good enough for Celtic from the little bits so far.

Copenhagen took Man Utd to extra time a couple of weeks back. Sevilla eeked past Cluj in the EL as well.

The main issue for Celtic right now is a manager who is not up to the job and a board who are trying to pinch pennies at every corner. I don't think the quality of the squad is too bad overall, they just need a better manager in who needs to be backed financially.

I don't anyone argued the EPL was the pinnacle of football

And yes the clubs you mentioned didn't do well in Europe in those seasons. In fact they tended to have poor seasons when they tried to combine Europe with domestic competition. But they are nowhere near the best dudes in EPL. Mid table in the seasons you describe. Celtic on the other hand have typically ran away with SPL. Indicating that the average standard in Scotland is piss poor.

The chances are that Lennon is a poor manager but it's very far from the situation that any Scottish team is a good manager from thriving in Europe

I'm comparing Celtic to the teams outside the top 6/7 in the EPL. I don't think the standard is all that vast. Those clubs that were mentioned earlier all got into the Europa League via their league performances, they were all terrible when they qualified. All teams have to juggle their European duties with their domestic duties, arguably a lot more pressure on Celtic as dropped points might mean missing out on a title rather than finishing 9th or 13th.

Teams like RB Salzburg, Slavia Prague, Dnipro Donetsk, Ajax and many more have shown that you can excel in Europe on more modest budgets in recent years.

I don't think the overall talent is too lacking in the squad, I think Celtic currently have a decent enough spine but the problem seems to come from a management team that look clueless and a board unwilling to invest in areas that need addressing.

Those teams were like Celtic dominating their domestic leagues. They can play full strength teams in Europe. Everton, Burnley etc not so

[Angelo]

Is the truth here just simply that Scottish football is pretty poor? The squads are stocked with players who's baseline in England would be bottom third of the second tier. It is going to be exceptionally difficult, coming from that base to compete in Europe. Yes Celtic have more money that many of the sides they have come up short against. But that money is generated because an audience is prepared to follow a team dominating a poor quality league. So money yes but the key football facts don't change.

Against all of that nobody should be under any delusions on where Lennon sits as a manager. He was a free agent in the past after his first stint as Celtic manager. You could list the offers from England on the back of a postage stamp that was shrunk in the wash.

Not sure what reputation Stevie G thinks he is building in Scotland. He probably will get some English offers but I guess that will be based on his name as a player rather as a manager

Pretty much all of Celtic's starting XI would hold its own in the EPL.

None of Celtic's starting XI have proven themselves in the EPL so I don't know how you can believe that. Only Edouard is even been linked with a transfer to EPL or European side. Look at the teams who have knocked Celtic out of Europe in recent seasons: Cluj, Copenhagen, Ferenvaros. None of whom would be even close to European football heavyweights or contenders.

The new signing from West Ham was a flop and not good enough for the EPL so what does is say about Celtic/Scottish football if he's expected to be their new star striker?

The likes of Everton, Burnley, Southampton etc have all done appallingly in the Europa League in recent years.

The EPL is not the pinnacle of football no matter what you think.

Ajeti certainly looks like a donkey, he doesn't look good enough for Celtic from the little bits so far.

Copenhagen took Man Utd to extra time a couple of weeks back. Sevilla eeked past Cluj in the EL as well.

The main issue for Celtic right now is a manager who is not up to the job and a board who are trying to pinch pennies at every corner. I don't think the quality of the squad is too bad overall, they just need a better manager in who needs to be backed financially.

I don't anyone argued the EPL was the pinnacle of football

And yes the clubs you mentioned didn't do well in Europe in those seasons. In fact they tended to have poor seasons when they tried to combine Europe with domestic competition. But they are nowhere near the best dudes in EPL. Mid table in the seasons you describe. Celtic on the other hand have typically ran away with SPL. Indicating that the average standard in Scotland is piss poor.

The chances are that Lennon is a poor manager but it's very far from the situation that any Scottish team is a good manager from thriving in Europe

I'm comparing Celtic to the teams outside the top 6/7 in the EPL. I don't think the standard is all that vast. Those clubs that were mentioned earlier all got into the Europa League via their league performances, they were all terrible when they qualified. All teams have to juggle their European duties with their domestic duties, arguably a lot more pressure on Celtic as dropped points might mean missing out on a title rather than finishing 9th or 13th.

Teams like RB Salzburg, Slavia Prague, Dnipro Donetsk, Ajax and many more have shown that you can excel in Europe on more modest budgets in recent years.

I don't think the overall talent is too lacking in the squad, I think Celtic currently have a decent enough spine but the problem seems to come from a management team that look clueless and a board unwilling to invest in areas that need addressing.

Those teams were like Celtic dominating their domestic leagues. They can play full strength teams in Europe. Everton, Burnley etc not so

Celtic can't afford dropped points and can't afford to rest players.

The opposite of what you're saying is actually true. Everton play for nothing every year so can send a dud team out at the weekend if they wish.

[smelmoth]

Is the truth here just simply that Scottish football is pretty poor? The squads are stocked with players who's baseline in England would be bottom third of the second tier. It is going to be exceptionally difficult, coming from that base to compete in Europe. Yes Celtic have more money that many of the sides they have come up short against. But that money is generated because an audience is prepared to follow a team dominating a poor quality league. So money yes but the key football facts don't change.

Against all of that nobody should be under any delusions on where Lennon sits as a manager. He was a free agent in the past after his first stint as Celtic manager. You could list the offers from England on the back of a postage stamp that was shrunk in the wash.

Not sure what reputation Stevie G thinks he is building in Scotland. He probably will get some English offers but I guess that will be based on his name as a player rather as a manager

Pretty much all of Celtic's starting XI would hold its own in the EPL.

None of Celtic's starting XI have proven themselves in the EPL so I don't know how you can believe that. Only Edouard is even been linked with a transfer to EPL or European side. Look at the teams who have knocked Celtic out of Europe in recent seasons: Cluj, Copenhagen, Ferenvaros. None of whom would be even close to European football heavyweights or contenders.

The new signing from West Ham was a flop and not good enough for the EPL so what does is say about Celtic/Scottish football if he's expected to be their new star striker?

The likes of Everton, Burnley, Southampton etc have all done appallingly in the Europa League in recent years.

The EPL is not the pinnacle of football no matter what you think.

Ajeti certainly looks like a donkey, he doesn't look good enough for Celtic from the little bits so far.

Copenhagen took Man Utd to extra time a couple of weeks back. Sevilla eeked past Cluj in the EL as well.

The main issue for Celtic right now is a manager who is not up to the job and a board who are trying to pinch pennies at every corner. I don't think the quality of the squad is too bad overall, they just need a better manager in who needs to be backed financially.

You might not rate the EPL, but the standard is way above Scottish football. You still haven't replied to several of us why you think Celtic are an EPL standard team and their players are just as good as those in the EPL?

Only Edouard has shown anything resembling the ability an EPL footballer. Smashing 4/5 goals past St Mirren and Hamilton every week doesn't automatically qualify team/players as superstars.

Aberdeen were only put out of the europa league after extra time by their epl opponents 2 seasons ago. Both Celtic and Rangers went further in the europa league last season than some epl sides. When people compare the leagues they're usually comparing the likes of man city, liverpool, arsenal and teams in the top 6 with teams like hamilton and st mirren and there is no comparison. If however you compare the teams outside the top 6 in the epl like burnley, crystal palace, watford, bournemouth, huddersfield etc then Celtic, Rangers and Aberdeen are at least around the same level and would easily be able to compete with those sides.

You miss a very important point here. Celtic and Rangers can rest their key players at the weekend and prioritise Europe.

It's not the case that you cannot afford to that in the EPL but that the reverse is actually true

What utter horseshit.

Celtic are going for 10IAR this season, Rangers are going to stop 10IAR. Both are battling it out for silverware, there is little chance of them risking dropped points that can cost a league title.

Conversely mid table EPL sides don't care about finishing 8th or 14th and can afford to rest up players.

Look at the team sheets especially early on. English sides are resting key players in Europa League. I think Wolves may have been exception. So not horseshit but actual fact

[Angelo]

Celtic are a Huge club hindered by lack of TV money, Lack of a main sponsor, Lack of major outside investment, receipts from away supporters, Location (weather wise) and a mediocre league. Their budget would improve ten fold if they were playing south of the border. But they are not playing south of the border and live off of scraps when it comes to surviving in the bigger world of Champions League qualification and Europa League competitiveness.


If they were playing south of the border all of the above would change. And change dramatically. But, the Man Utd's, Man Cities, Chelsea's, Liverpool's, Spurs, Arsenals would still be ahead of Celtic for a considerable amount of time.

I actually agree with this. The current Celtic team of today however would be doing very very well to avoid relegation from the Premier league.

That is a fair point FTB, however that's not much comfort to Celtic. They are a big fish in a small pond in Scotland.

They don't have the budget, the weather or the attraction of a competitive league to bring in top players so they are only going to slip further behind teams in the rest of Europe. They might pull out one off results now and again, but these will be the exception rather than the norm.

I thought that article posted earlier by the Glasgow journo was bang on. Lennon's press conferences for the last few years keep coming out with the same complaints and excuses. If he still can't get it right, he shouldn't be in charge

Finally if Angelo thinks that Celtic wouldn't get relegated from the Premier League with that back 4, especially those centre backs he's in dreamland again. Ajer can play a nice pass out from the back, but that wouldn't be much use when someone like Vardy would be making runs and he'd be chasing shadows unable to mark him

The current Celtic team with Neil Lennon in charge probably would struggle in the EPL.

But Sheffield United finished in the top half of the EPL last season and there is far more talent available in that Celtic squad. Burnley have been comfortable in the EPL for the last few years, you seem to making out the EPL is some sort of golden standard when it is jam packed with average players on huge wages.

Jeff Hendrick on £60/70k per week? Madness.

Where do get idea that people think EPL is a gold standard or the pinnacle. We are only saying that it's infinitely better than an extremely poor SPL. Forget about Celtic for moment and consider Motherwell, Hamilton, Dundee Utd, Livingston, St Mirren, St Johnstone, Kilmarnock and compare them with Wycombe, Rotterdam, Preston, Blackburn etc.

Scottish football is rubbish. By professional standards it very poor quality. All them victories by the Auld Firm sides against the like of Hamilton are essentially not worth troubling yourself with

You're the one mentioning the SPL.

I'm talking about Celtic and you're getting mighty pent up about the fact that the EPL is full of average players.

[Angelo]

Is the truth here just simply that Scottish football is pretty poor? The squads are stocked with players who's baseline in England would be bottom third of the second tier. It is going to be exceptionally difficult, coming from that base to compete in Europe. Yes Celtic have more money that many of the sides they have come up short against. But that money is generated because an audience is prepared to follow a team dominating a poor quality league. So money yes but the key football facts don't change.

Against all of that nobody should be under any delusions on where Lennon sits as a manager. He was a free agent in the past after his first stint as Celtic manager. You could list the offers from England on the back of a postage stamp that was shrunk in the wash.

Not sure what reputation Stevie G thinks he is building in Scotland. He probably will get some English offers but I guess that will be based on his name as a player rather as a manager

Pretty much all of Celtic's starting XI would hold its own in the EPL.

None of Celtic's starting XI have proven themselves in the EPL so I don't know how you can believe that. Only Edouard is even been linked with a transfer to EPL or European side. Look at the teams who have knocked Celtic out of Europe in recent seasons: Cluj, Copenhagen, Ferenvaros. None of whom would be even close to European football heavyweights or contenders.

The new signing from West Ham was a flop and not good enough for the EPL so what does is say about Celtic/Scottish football if he's expected to be their new star striker?

The likes of Everton, Burnley, Southampton etc have all done appallingly in the Europa League in recent years.

The EPL is not the pinnacle of football no matter what you think.

Ajeti certainly looks like a donkey, he doesn't look good enough for Celtic from the little bits so far.

Copenhagen took Man Utd to extra time a couple of weeks back. Sevilla eeked past Cluj in the EL as well.

The main issue for Celtic right now is a manager who is not up to the job and a board who are trying to pinch pennies at every corner. I don't think the quality of the squad is too bad overall, they just need a better manager in who needs to be backed financially.

You might not rate the EPL, but the standard is way above Scottish football. You still haven't replied to several of us why you think Celtic are an EPL standard team and their players are just as good as those in the EPL?

Only Edouard has shown anything resembling the ability an EPL footballer. Smashing 4/5 goals past St Mirren and Hamilton every week doesn't automatically qualify team/players as superstars.

Aberdeen were only put out of the europa league after extra time by their epl opponents 2 seasons ago. Both Celtic and Rangers went further in the europa league last season than some epl sides. When people compare the leagues they're usually comparing the likes of man city, liverpool, arsenal and teams in the top 6 with teams like hamilton and st mirren and there is no comparison. If however you compare the teams outside the top 6 in the epl like burnley, crystal palace, watford, bournemouth, huddersfield etc then Celtic, Rangers and Aberdeen are at least around the same level and would easily be able to compete with those sides.

You miss a very important point here. Celtic and Rangers can rest their key players at the weekend and prioritise Europe.

It's not the case that you cannot afford to that in the EPL but that the reverse is actually true

What utter horseshit.

Celtic are going for 10IAR this season, Rangers are going to stop 10IAR. Both are battling it out for silverware, there is little chance of them risking dropped points that can cost a league title.

Conversely mid table EPL sides don't care about finishing 8th or 14th and can afford to rest up players.

Look at the team sheets especially early on. English sides are resting key players in Europa League. I think Wolves may have been exception. So not horseshit but actual fact

Absolutely incorrect.

The likes of Southampton, Wolves, Everton and Burnley all had full strength teams out  when they were in the Europa League.

It might be a different case for Man Utd and Arsenal but we're talking about the teams outside the big 6.

[smelmoth]

Is the truth here just simply that Scottish football is pretty poor? The squads are stocked with players who's baseline in England would be bottom third of the second tier. It is going to be exceptionally difficult, coming from that base to compete in Europe. Yes Celtic have more money that many of the sides they have come up short against. But that money is generated because an audience is prepared to follow a team dominating a poor quality league. So money yes but the key football facts don't change.

Against all of that nobody should be under any delusions on where Lennon sits as a manager. He was a free agent in the past after his first stint as Celtic manager. You could list the offers from England on the back of a postage stamp that was shrunk in the wash.

Not sure what reputation Stevie G thinks he is building in Scotland. He probably will get some English offers but I guess that will be based on his name as a player rather as a manager

Pretty much all of Celtic's starting XI would hold its own in the EPL.

None of Celtic's starting XI have proven themselves in the EPL so I don't know how you can believe that. Only Edouard is even been linked with a transfer to EPL or European side. Look at the teams who have knocked Celtic out of Europe in recent seasons: Cluj, Copenhagen, Ferenvaros. None of whom would be even close to European football heavyweights or contenders.

The new signing from West Ham was a flop and not good enough for the EPL so what does is say about Celtic/Scottish football if he's expected to be their new star striker?

The likes of Everton, Burnley, Southampton etc have all done appallingly in the Europa League in recent years.

The EPL is not the pinnacle of football no matter what you think.

Ajeti certainly looks like a donkey, he doesn't look good enough for Celtic from the little bits so far.

Copenhagen took Man Utd to extra time a couple of weeks back. Sevilla eeked past Cluj in the EL as well.

The main issue for Celtic right now is a manager who is not up to the job and a board who are trying to pinch pennies at every corner. I don't think the quality of the squad is too bad overall, they just need a better manager in who needs to be backed financially.

You might not rate the EPL, but the standard is way above Scottish football. You still haven't replied to several of us why you think Celtic are an EPL standard team and their players are just as good as those in the EPL?

Only Edouard has shown anything resembling the ability an EPL footballer. Smashing 4/5 goals past St Mirren and Hamilton every week doesn't automatically qualify team/players as superstars.

There's so much ignorance in that post you wouldn't know where to start.

Nobody is saying the SPL is of an equivalent standard to the EPL but I think Celtic would survive comfortably with a decent manager down there. You seem to vastly, vastly overstimate the quality of the EPL outside the top six teams.

What's the ability of an EPL footballer? A guy like Jamie Vardy who spends his career in the English lower leagues and non-league and comes to the EPL in the twilight of his career and hits a century of goals?

I've seen the EPL, there are plenty of Irish international players getting their game there that would get nowhere near a Celtic team - Stevens, Egan, Long, McGoldrick, Hourihane, Hendrick etc etc.

You seem to brainwashed into thinking the EPL is the be all and end all.

Edouard is good enough to play for a top 4 team down there. The rest of the Celtic first team starters and fringe players are more than capable of holding their own at that level when you look at some players clocking up regular appearances.

If we say Liverpool, City, United and Chelsea are the EPL top 4 I think the chances of Edouard getting a regular start with any of those sides I s precisely zero.
I think the chances of the Christie, McGregor, Brown etc thriving in any PL side is also zero. That seems to be view of the EPL managers and scouts also

It seems you are another EPL cheerleader.

I'm sure plenty of people have said the same on guys like Van Dijk, Wanyama, Tierney etc in the past. Edouard is more than good enough for a top 4 EPL side, Brown would easily have held his own in the EPL in his pomp but he shouldn't be starting with Celtic these days. McGregor and Christie keep EPL regulars out of the Scottish national team.

Which of the top 4 are after Edouard?
Who was after Brown in his pomp?
Who are the EPL regulars being kept of the Scottish team when fit?

[smelmoth]

Is the truth here just simply that Scottish football is pretty poor? The squads are stocked with players who's baseline in England would be bottom third of the second tier. It is going to be exceptionally difficult, coming from that base to compete in Europe. Yes Celtic have more money that many of the sides they have come up short against. But that money is generated because an audience is prepared to follow a team dominating a poor quality league. So money yes but the key football facts don't change.

Against all of that nobody should be under any delusions on where Lennon sits as a manager. He was a free agent in the past after his first stint as Celtic manager. You could list the offers from England on the back of a postage stamp that was shrunk in the wash.

Not sure what reputation Stevie G thinks he is building in Scotland. He probably will get some English offers but I guess that will be based on his name as a player rather as a manager

Pretty much all of Celtic's starting XI would hold its own in the EPL.

None of Celtic's starting XI have proven themselves in the EPL so I don't know how you can believe that. Only Edouard is even been linked with a transfer to EPL or European side. Look at the teams who have knocked Celtic out of Europe in recent seasons: Cluj, Copenhagen, Ferenvaros. None of whom would be even close to European football heavyweights or contenders.

The new signing from West Ham was a flop and not good enough for the EPL so what does is say about Celtic/Scottish football if he's expected to be their new star striker?

The likes of Everton, Burnley, Southampton etc have all done appallingly in the Europa League in recent years.

The EPL is not the pinnacle of football no matter what you think.

Ajeti certainly looks like a donkey, he doesn't look good enough for Celtic from the little bits so far.

Copenhagen took Man Utd to extra time a couple of weeks back. Sevilla eeked past Cluj in the EL as well.

The main issue for Celtic right now is a manager who is not up to the job and a board who are trying to pinch pennies at every corner. I don't think the quality of the squad is too bad overall, they just need a better manager in who needs to be backed financially.

You might not rate the EPL, but the standard is way above Scottish football. You still haven't replied to several of us why you think Celtic are an EPL standard team and their players are just as good as those in the EPL?

Only Edouard has shown anything resembling the ability an EPL footballer. Smashing 4/5 goals past St Mirren and Hamilton every week doesn't automatically qualify team/players as superstars.

There's so much ignorance in that post you wouldn't know where to start.

Nobody is saying the SPL is of an equivalent standard to the EPL but I think Celtic would survive comfortably with a decent manager down there. You seem to vastly, vastly overstimate the quality of the EPL outside the top six teams.

What's the ability of an EPL footballer? A guy like Jamie Vardy who spends his career in the English lower leagues and non-league and comes to the EPL in the twilight of his career and hits a century of goals?

I've seen the EPL, there are plenty of Irish international players getting their game there that would get nowhere near a Celtic team - Stevens, Egan, Long, McGoldrick, Hourihane, Hendrick etc etc.

You seem to brainwashed into thinking the EPL is the be all and end all.

Edouard is good enough to play for a top 4 team down there. The rest of the Celtic first team starters and fringe players are more than capable of holding their own at that level when you look at some players clocking up regular appearances.

Those highlighted would not only start for Celtic but would be amongst their best players. I like seeing Celtic do well as much as the next man but you're in absolute dreamland if you think their current team wouldn't be relegated from the Premier League.

Come off it.

We have better players on the bench that some of those.

Rogic is more ability in his little toe than Hourihane or Henrick, when you see those lads at international level you know how poor they are. Likewise Stevens, Taylor looks a far better player than them. Long getting in ahead of Edouard? Give me a break, I'd have a fit Griffiths ahead of him any day of the week too.

For some of those guys however, they are playing in sides with a manager who has his side well drilled and organised where players know exactly what they are doing. Celtic currently have a pub manager running the team.

How do you explain the lack of scouting interest by the EPL in Scotland? And that includes Celtic. Celtic seem keen to move a few on. They might get decent money for one or two but there is hardly a frenzy of bids for those one or two and precisely zero for the bulk of the squad.

Do you read what you type?

Do you expect Celtic to sell their entire first team in one go? They usually cash in on one player to fund their signings each season.

Last year it was Tierney
The season before Dembele (and Armstrong)
They've done similar with Wanyama, Van Dijk and Forster

Celtic are in a very healthy financial position, no debt and a big cash reserve in the bank.

Who said I expected Celtic to sell their first team in one go? You have literally made that up. For what reason I cannot tell.

Whether Celtic sell the player or not is up to themselves. But if the players were worth scouting, approaching, bidding for etc these things would be happening.