Author Topic: The 2018 National Hurling Leagues Discussion Thread  (Read 6372 times)

Milltown Row2

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Re: The 2018 National Hurling Leagues Discussion Thread
« Reply #150 on: April 11, 2018, 10:49:12 PM »
Yes. He charges.

Definition of a charge?

I would define a charge as head down, not playing the ball, and deliberately running into a player who is standing in front of you.

Yes, you wonít get to many 6í4 players running around in hurling with the head down, if he has the ball and takes four steps and a player stands in his way he has a right to go through him, legally.. he canít charge him i.e turn side on shoulder to his front or back, but can use his strength to get by.. can you imagine stopping all those runs?

A charge is very easy to call as a ref, someone with ball and stick in hand, upright and honest Iíll let go. If a defender tries to stop him by putting his arms around him and not trying to play ball itís a foul.. to be fair though he is an awkward big Cnut and t**ker bell feet heís not got, so Iíll give him the benefit for now, but Iíve the game recorded from Sunday so Iíll check it
No he doesn't
The tackler is entitled to stand their ground

A referee needs to implement the rules
If you try and go through a player with the ball hand and hurley up pushing against the helmet then it's clearly a free against

What does 'manly hurling mean?

You are describing a charge, a player needs to play the ball, thatís the defender and forward, if he stands his ground thatís fine, but if he puts his arms on him as heís trying to pass him heís fouling him, as for a player with the ball he must play the ball or drop it or take his 4 steps if he puts a player on his arse legally then itís play on.. if he raises a hurl/elbow/forearm to an opponents face/head then thatís a foul. A charge is a simple charge also a foul!

Manly hurling is when  players just get on with it without the bitching! How itís normaly played
Hard to play hurling when you've lads running through you like rugby

Try it some time
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

manfromdelmonte

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Re: The 2018 National Hurling Leagues Discussion Thread
« Reply #151 on: April 11, 2018, 11:13:46 PM »
Yes. He charges.

Definition of a charge?

I would define a charge as head down, not playing the ball, and deliberately running into a player who is standing in front of you.

Yes, you wonít get to many 6í4 players running around in hurling with the head down, if he has the ball and takes four steps and a player stands in his way he has a right to go through him, legally.. he canít charge him i.e turn side on shoulder to his front or back, but can use his strength to get by.. can you imagine stopping all those runs?

A charge is very easy to call as a ref, someone with ball and stick in hand, upright and honest Iíll let go. If a defender tries to stop him by putting his arms around him and not trying to play ball itís a foul.. to be fair though he is an awkward big Cnut and t**ker bell feet heís not got, so Iíll give him the benefit for now, but Iíve the game recorded from Sunday so Iíll check it
No he doesn't
The tackler is entitled to stand their ground

A referee needs to implement the rules
If you try and go through a player with the ball hand and hurley up pushing against the helmet then it's clearly a free against

What does 'manly hurling mean?

You are describing a charge, a player needs to play the ball, thatís the defender and forward, if he stands his ground thatís fine, but if he puts his arms on him as heís trying to pass him heís fouling him, as for a player with the ball he must play the ball or drop it or take his 4 steps if he puts a player on his arse legally then itís play on.. if he raises a hurl/elbow/forearm to an opponents face/head then thatís a foul. A charge is a simple charge also a foul!

Manly hurling is when  players just get on with it without the bitching! How itís normaly played
Hard to play hurling when you've lads running through you like rugby

Try it some time

Hurling was better as a game in the 90s and early noughties before the plough through your man power hurling that Cody and Kilkenny have espoused



johnnycool

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Re: The 2018 National Hurling Leagues Discussion Thread
« Reply #152 on: April 12, 2018, 08:25:42 AM »
Yes. He charges.

Definition of a charge?

I would define a charge as head down, not playing the ball, and deliberately running into a player who is standing in front of you.

Yes, you wonít get to many 6í4 players running around in hurling with the head down, if he has the ball and takes four steps and a player stands in his way he has a right to go through him, legally.. he canít charge him i.e turn side on shoulder to his front or back, but can use his strength to get by.. can you imagine stopping all those runs?

A charge is very easy to call as a ref, someone with ball and stick in hand, upright and honest Iíll let go. If a defender tries to stop him by putting his arms around him and not trying to play ball itís a foul.. to be fair though he is an awkward big Cnut and t**ker bell feet heís not got, so Iíll give him the benefit for now, but Iíve the game recorded from Sunday so Iíll check it

You sure about that?

IMO if someone is straight in front of you and even if you haven't exceeded your 4 steps I don't think you've the right to frontal "barge" them out of the way. You have to at least make an effort to go round them.
The allowable shoulder charge is shoulder to shoulder, hip to hip which you can't do if you're standing face on with someone.


Now, what the rule book says and how hurling is currently being refereed are miles apart when it comes to tackling.

Milltown Row2

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Re: The 2018 National Hurling Leagues Discussion Thread
« Reply #153 on: April 12, 2018, 09:38:13 AM »
Yes. He charges.

Definition of a charge?

I would define a charge as head down, not playing the ball, and deliberately running into a player who is standing in front of you.

Yes, you wonít get to many 6í4 players running around in hurling with the head down, if he has the ball and takes four steps and a player stands in his way he has a right to go through him, legally.. he canít charge him i.e turn side on shoulder to his front or back, but can use his strength to get by.. can you imagine stopping all those runs?

A charge is very easy to call as a ref, someone with ball and stick in hand, upright and honest Iíll let go. If a defender tries to stop him by putting his arms around him and not trying to play ball itís a foul.. to be fair though he is an awkward big Cnut and t**ker bell feet heís not got, so Iíll give him the benefit for now, but Iíve the game recorded from Sunday so Iíll check it

You sure about that?

IMO if someone is straight in front of you and even if you haven't exceeded your 4 steps I don't think you've the right to frontal "barge" them out of the way. You have to at least make an effort to go round them.
The allowable shoulder charge is shoulder to shoulder, hip to hip which you can't do if you're standing face on with someone.


Now, what the rule book says and how hurling is currently being refereed are miles apart when it comes to tackling.

Frontal barge into someones front or back is a charge so its a foul, but he can lift his arms in a way to try and get around him, if the player in front is trying to stop him illegally, i.e putting arms around him, on him, or pulling his arm then its a free, well thats how I read the the game, one person trying to play ball, other not..

Does Magic get pulled for trying to get around players with ball in hand, he's a big lad, whats been your experience of his 'runs' with the ball?

If I see a honest attempt of a player with ball trying to get past an opponent then I'll let him try, if the other players are holding grappling or pulling then I'll give the free, by the same token if the lad with the ball lifts his feet into a tackle thats a charge, if he raises a elbow/arm going into that same takle then thats a foul also, and if he doesnt play the ball within the 4 steps 5/6 seconds then he's foulded the ball (provided he was held up illegally i.e a player just standing his ground and not pulling/holding grappling)

You are all playing it long enough to know what a foul is in those circumstances, while others find themselves in this position a lot due to their awkwardness, style or size the ref can only call it as he sees it.

I prefer a contact sport to no contact sport, there will be ones that take it to the max, its the ref's call at that point, he my not get them all, and I'm guilty of reflecting afterwards of whether I made the right call, but you go with your gut at the time.
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

johnnycool

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Re: The 2018 National Hurling Leagues Discussion Thread
« Reply #154 on: April 12, 2018, 09:45:44 AM »
Yes. He charges.

Definition of a charge?

I would define a charge as head down, not playing the ball, and deliberately running into a player who is standing in front of you.

Yes, you wonít get to many 6í4 players running around in hurling with the head down, if he has the ball and takes four steps and a player stands in his way he has a right to go through him, legally.. he canít charge him i.e turn side on shoulder to his front or back, but can use his strength to get by.. can you imagine stopping all those runs?

A charge is very easy to call as a ref, someone with ball and stick in hand, upright and honest Iíll let go. If a defender tries to stop him by putting his arms around him and not trying to play ball itís a foul.. to be fair though he is an awkward big Cnut and t**ker bell feet heís not got, so Iíll give him the benefit for now, but Iíve the game recorded from Sunday so Iíll check it

You sure about that?

IMO if someone is straight in front of you and even if you haven't exceeded your 4 steps I don't think you've the right to frontal "barge" them out of the way. You have to at least make an effort to go round them.
The allowable shoulder charge is shoulder to shoulder, hip to hip which you can't do if you're standing face on with someone.


Now, what the rule book says and how hurling is currently being refereed are miles apart when it comes to tackling.

Frontal barge into someones front or back is a charge so its a foul, but he can lift his arms in a way to try and get around him, if the player in front is trying to stop him illegally, i.e putting arms around him, on him, or pulling his arm then its a free, well thats how I read the the game, one person trying to play ball, other not..

Does Magic get pulled for trying to get around players with ball in hand, he's a big lad, whats been your experience of his 'runs' with the ball?

If I see a honest attempt of a player with ball trying to get past an opponent then I'll let him try, if the other players are holding grappling or pulling then I'll give the free, by the same token if the lad with the ball lifts his feet into a tackle thats a charge, if he raises a elbow/arm going into that same takle then thats a foul also, and if he doesnt play the ball within the 4 steps 5/6 seconds then he's foulded the ball (provided he was held up illegally i.e a player just standing his ground and not pulling/holding grappling)

You are all playing it long enough to know what a foul is in those circumstances, while others find themselves in this position a lot due to their awkwardness, style or size the ref can only call it as he sees it.

I prefer a contact sport to no contact sport, there will be ones that take it to the max, its the ref's call at that point, he my not get them all, and I'm guilty of reflecting afterwards of whether I made the right call, but you go with your gut at the time.

Yes, provided they try and go around him. Big Walter doesn't do that a lot of the time and he's not the only one.

Big Magic is a big softie and doesn't use his size the way he could, too much of a ball player. I tried my best to educate him in the darker arts, but he wasn't a responsive student.  ;D

Milltown Row2

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Re: The 2018 National Hurling Leagues Discussion Thread
« Reply #155 on: April 12, 2018, 09:51:16 AM »
Well if he's honest then he'd get the majority of the calls, my main problem with players nowadays (as a ref) is looking for free's!! and explaining the rules to you.. gone are the days of playing to the whistle, they stop, throw their hurls down and have a hissy fit!

 
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

manfromdelmonte

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Re: The 2018 National Hurling Leagues Discussion Thread
« Reply #156 on: April 13, 2018, 07:42:27 AM »
Well if he's honest then he'd get the majority of the calls, my main problem with players nowadays (as a ref) is looking for free's!! and explaining the rules to you.. gone are the days of playing to the whistle, they stop, throw their hurls down and have a hissy fit!
It's the opposite
If a ref enforces the rules and explains the calls as he goes along with clear hand gestures then generally players get on with it

If you raise your ball hand and hurley into the face of a player and try and push him out if the way then surely it is a free.

Milltown Row2

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Re: The 2018 National Hurling Leagues Discussion Thread
« Reply #157 on: April 13, 2018, 09:38:11 AM »
Well if he's honest then he'd get the majority of the calls, my main problem with players nowadays (as a ref) is looking for free's!! and explaining the rules to you.. gone are the days of playing to the whistle, they stop, throw their hurls down and have a hissy fit!
It's the opposite
If a ref enforces the rules and explains the calls as he goes along with clear hand gestures then generally players get on with it

If you raise your ball hand and hurley into the face of a player and try and push him out if the way then surely it is a free.

Of course its a free, and its up to the ref to call it.. as for your first point, i talk all the way through a match, you'll still get arseholes who'll question your call everytime, even though you are on top of them when making it..

One of the hardest calls  in hurling thats gets on most people goats is the square ball (and hand pass), to be in the right position to see the square when you are in one end of the pitch and the ball is hammered up the pitch 80 yards towards the square! I'm quick and in some games quicker than the players but there is no way you can see a square in some grounds from 60 70 yards away!! They need to look at that rule to be honest.. ok when you have umpires and lines men with radio links but the general league games! impossible
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

manfromdelmonte

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Re: The 2018 National Hurling Leagues Discussion Thread
« Reply #158 on: April 13, 2018, 09:26:25 PM »
Well if he's honest then he'd get the majority of the calls, my main problem with players nowadays (as a ref) is looking for free's!! and explaining the rules to you.. gone are the days of playing to the whistle, they stop, throw their hurls down and have a hissy fit!
It's the opposite
If a ref enforces the rules and explains the calls as he goes along with clear hand gestures then generally players get on with it

If you raise your ball hand and hurley into the face of a player and try and push him out if the way then surely it is a free.

Of course its a free, and its up to the ref to call it.. as for your first point, i talk all the way through a match, you'll still get arseholes who'll question your call everytime, even though you are on top of them when making it..

One of the hardest calls  in hurling thats gets on most people goats is the square ball (and hand pass), to be in the right position to see the square when you are in one end of the pitch and the ball is hammered up the pitch 80 yards towards the square! I'm quick and in some games quicker than the players but there is no way you can see a square in some grounds from 60 70 yards away!! They need to look at that rule to be honest.. ok when you have umpires and lines men with radio links but the general league games! impossible
Why the need for a square ball rule?
Surely just protect the keeper more - not allowed tackle him while ball is in the air

Most county players go straight at opponent with ball hand raised and hurley up high

The other one is 'locking' a tackling players hurley around your neck and getting a free for a high tackle...

Milltown Row2

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Re: The 2018 National Hurling Leagues Discussion Thread
« Reply #159 on: April 13, 2018, 09:58:15 PM »
Well if he's honest then he'd get the majority of the calls, my main problem with players nowadays (as a ref) is looking for free's!! and explaining the rules to you.. gone are the days of playing to the whistle, they stop, throw their hurls down and have a hissy fit!
It's the opposite
If a ref enforces the rules and explains the calls as he goes along with clear hand gestures then generally players get on with it

If you raise your ball hand and hurley into the face of a player and try and push him out if the way then surely it is a free.

Of course its a free, and its up to the ref to call it.. as for your first point, i talk all the way through a match, you'll still get arseholes who'll question your call everytime, even though you are on top of them when making it..

One of the hardest calls  in hurling thats gets on most people goats is the square ball (and hand pass), to be in the right position to see the square when you are in one end of the pitch and the ball is hammered up the pitch 80 yards towards the square! I'm quick and in some games quicker than the players but there is no way you can see a square in some grounds from 60 70 yards away!! They need to look at that rule to be honest.. ok when you have umpires and lines men with radio links but the general league games! impossible
Why the need for a square ball rule?
Surely just protect the keeper more - not allowed tackle him while ball is in the air

Most county players go straight at opponent with ball hand raised and hurley up high

The other one is 'locking' a tackling players hurley around your neck and getting a free for a high tackle...

Youíve people who watch a match and with the advantage of slow mo and replays think this and that. The reality is completely different. The ref, whoís more experienced than you on applying the rules will have one chance to call it. Now if youíve ever played at any level youíll understand that..

Now Iíve been refíing for ten years, Iíve played senior for 25 years and managed our seniors for few seasons, so Iíd like to think Iíve a good idea on tackles, fouls.
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

manfromdelmonte

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Re: The 2018 National Hurling Leagues Discussion Thread
« Reply #160 on: April 13, 2018, 10:35:27 PM »
Well if he's honest then he'd get the majority of the calls, my main problem with players nowadays (as a ref) is looking for free's!! and explaining the rules to you.. gone are the days of playing to the whistle, they stop, throw their hurls down and have a hissy fit!
It's the opposite
If a ref enforces the rules and explains the calls as he goes along with clear hand gestures then generally players get on with it

If you raise your ball hand and hurley into the face of a player and try and push him out if the way then surely it is a free.

Of course its a free, and its up to the ref to call it.. as for your first point, i talk all the way through a match, you'll still get arseholes who'll question your call everytime, even though you are on top of them when making it..

One of the hardest calls  in hurling thats gets on most people goats is the square ball (and hand pass), to be in the right position to see the square when you are in one end of the pitch and the ball is hammered up the pitch 80 yards towards the square! I'm quick and in some games quicker than the players but there is no way you can see a square in some grounds from 60 70 yards away!! They need to look at that rule to be honest.. ok when you have umpires and lines men with radio links but the general league games! impossible
Why the need for a square ball rule?
Surely just protect the keeper more - not allowed tackle him while ball is in the air

Most county players go straight at opponent with ball hand raised and hurley up high

The other one is 'locking' a tackling players hurley around your neck and getting a free for a high tackle...

Youíve people who watch a match and with the advantage of slow mo and replays think this and that. The reality is completely different. The ref, whoís more experienced than you on applying the rules will have one chance to call it. Now if youíve ever played at any level youíll understand that..

Now Iíve been refíing for ten years, Iíve played senior for 25 years and managed our seniors for few seasons, so Iíd like to think Iíve a good idea on tackles, fouls.
ok. I referee a bit.
coach a few teams. some to a high enough level
still play a bit when needed

Milltown Row2

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Re: The 2018 National Hurling Leagues Discussion Thread
« Reply #161 on: April 13, 2018, 10:51:40 PM »
Well your views on things differ to mine and thatís fine.. refíd a game tonight and serious amount of bullshite from supporters and the lines at times makes ya wonder
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

manfromdelmonte

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Re: The 2018 National Hurling Leagues Discussion Thread
« Reply #162 on: April 14, 2018, 08:06:29 AM »
Well your views on things differ to mine and thatís fine.. refíd a game tonight and serious amount of bullshite from supporters and the lines at times makes ya wonder
Yeah sometimes you'd wonder if supporters go to watch a game or to give out