Sigerson Cup 2012

[rodney trotter]

DCU are like when Roman Abramovich took over chelsea and went gung ho spending big money, they do they same requiting players.. They probaly have 3 or 4 big names lined up before next september!

[ck]

I find difficult to take the Sigerson seriously when you look at the "courses" some players are doing and the lengths some colleges will go to recruit players. It isn't exactly a level laying field and I don't see much achievement in what DCU did today.

I would agree with this. Sigerson is simply not what it was due to a few colleges taking the proverbial. HE GAA stand idly by and do nothing. Lets face it, we are only talking about DCU and UUJ (ITCarlow are at it of late I hear) who have these "Elite athlete entry schemes". It really is pathetic.
If students won't go to your college without these "incentives" you should really have a good look at your college!

[ck]

I would agree with this. Sigerson is simply not what it was due to a few colleges taking the proverbial. HE GAA stand idly by and do nothing. Lets face it, we are only talking about DCU and UUJ (ITCarlow are at it of late I hear) who have these "Elite athlete entry schemes". It really is pathetic.
If students won't go to your college without these "incentives" you should really have a good look at your college!

[Orchardman]

Strip away all the hype and who are these 'stars' that DCU have?

M Boyle; P McMahon, K Gavin, E Culligan; N Collins, J Cooper, J McCarthy; F O'Shea, C Begley (0-1); P Flynn (1-3), D Rock (0-4, 0-1f), D Keenan (0-2); J Brady, E O'Gara (0-4), A McFadden.

just had a look at their line up. Few dublin players, mcmahon, paul flynn (class act), dean rock (not dublin senior yet), o gara (most call him brutal).

Colm begley is well known only for playing AFL. Mikey murphy was on the bench. These other lads might have all played under 21 or bits of county senior but their hardly big shots. I've seen far more star studded teams ( in terms of big names on paper, not necessarily better teams) in the last 10 years from UUJ and UCD (early decade mainly) and the 2006-08 DCU team (cluxton, brogan, eoin lennon, mortimor, the great seanie johnson).

Agree with everyone else though if its not a level playing field.

On another note, people relate attendance sometimes to importance of games. Was there any more there today than there will be at the railway cup final? didn't see any big celebrations at the end from anyone except the players themselves

[Jinxy]

Eoghan O'Gara scored 4 points?!
Which limbs did he get them with?

[ck]

Orchardman, without being patronising you have never gone to college obviously. (Sigerson teams don't have big college followings) It's a players competition and always was. The reputation it has gained was always based on the standard of football and the level of competition provided.
As for not knowing the players.. I know most of them.. most of them would have been targetted by DCU for their eleite athlete scheme. Many would be regarded as players of the future for their counties and all would be top U.21 players at very least. Did you know Cluxton, Brogan and Mortimor in the early part of the last decade? (when they were recruited) ..but you've heard of them all since. Case and point. It'll be the same for todays DCU team.

DCU's policy will only further degrade the competition over the coming years

[Orchardman]

FFS, that was the type of answer i knew someone would say.

I played a lot of university football, but the highlight of it was a trench cup final defeat. I know what it means to those involved, in fact i would say it means more at a lower level such as trench or whatever as not so distracted by county football. The remark about the crowd was a dig at christy cooney and others putting down the railway cup, that was my point, you don't need to have big crowds to justify a competition.

And again ur wrong about my comparisons with other teams. Yes the UUJ and DCU teams i mentioned had players who already were established inter county players, that is exactly my point, not players that will be in the future as you were saying. Did i know cluxton u ask? he had been no .1 keeper for dublin a number of years before he started DCU!

Anyway, DCU seem to be the strongest by far judging by their winning margins, so I'm not having a pop at them. It's just that some people here talk like it was the madrid team of figo, zidane, and ronaldo they have assembled.

Looking at the UUJ and Queens teams this year I would also have said they wer no where near as strong as previous years, in terms of established players. Obviously, u can't expect lads of 19-20 to all be well known successful county players. Paul flynn, o 'gara and colm begley are all over 25, so hence their status.

[The Moon is Down]

Today's Sigerson Cup Final winning margin (16 points, 2-17 to 0-7) is the biggest since 33 years ago today when UCC beat UCG by 2-15 to 0-2 - thanks to Statto Donal for that.

Sorry, Statto Donal has that wrong, UCD won the Sigerson that year beating UCG in final in Pairc Ui Chaoimh by that record scoreline. Great UCD team in those days, all of them doing legit courses, mostly undergraduate with maybe a couple doing Masters or H. Dips in Ed.
Team was - John Murphy (Sligo), Sean Doherty (Tyrone), Paddy O'Donoghue {Kildare), Joe Joe O'Sullivan (Kerry); Declan Carey( Down), P J Finlay (Monaghan), Barry O'Donoghue (Kildare); Colm O'Rourke (Meath), John Caffrey (Dublin); Andy Roche (Dublin), Tony McManus (Roscommon, captain), Morgan Hughes (Galway); Jimmy Lyons (Mayo), Tommy Murphy (Wicklow), Frank Sullivan ( Meath).

Some names to conjure with there, and 12 counties represented...

[The Moon is Down]

These were teams today according to breakingnews.ie - why wasn't Cathal Cregg playing for DCU, I wonder?

DCU: M Boyle; P McMahon, K Gavin, E Culligan; N Collins, J Cooper, J McCarthy; F O'Shea, C Begley (0-1); P Flynn (1-3), D Rock (0-4, 0-1f), D Keenan (0-2); J Brady, E O'Gara (0-4), A McFadden.

Subs used: D Kelly (1-1) for Brady (31 mins), M Murphy (0-1) for Keenan (40), G Sweeney (0-1) for Rock (48), R Hennelly for Boyle (54), F O'Curraoin for O'Gara (57).

NUI Maynooth: S Connolly; K O'Brien, K Lynch, D Dalton (0-1); T Moolick (0-1), J McDermott, S Denvir; C Berrigan (0-1), C Brophy; P Cahillane (0-1), S Hurley, C Mullins; M Newman (0-2, 0-1f), D Quinn (0-1), J Califf.

Subs used: S Fahey for Califf (34 mins), T Johnson for Denvir (38), D Quinn for Berrigan (45), W Ryan for Lynch (49), P Og O'Griofa for Mullins (54).

[spuds]

DCU:
Subs used: D Kelly (1-1) for Brady (31 mins), M Murphy (0-1) for Keenan (40), G Sweeney (0-1) for Rock (48), R Hennelly for Boyle (54), F O'Curraoin for O'Gara (57).

David Kelly established Sligo star
Michael Murphy one of top players in country
Gary Sweeney highly thought of Dublin All Ireland under 21 winner
Rob Hennelly Mayo no. 1 goalie 2011
Fionntan O'Curraoin current Galway midfielder

Why was Kelly only being brought on as a sub ? A scoring machine when given supply.

[GalwayBayBoy]

DCU:
Subs used: D Kelly (1-1) for Brady (31 mins), M Murphy (0-1) for Keenan (40), G Sweeney (0-1) for Rock (48), R Hennelly for Boyle (54), F O'Curraoin for O'Gara (57).

David Kelly established Sligo star
Michael Murphy one of top players in country
Gary Sweeney highly thought of Dublin All Ireland under 21 winner
Rob Hennelly Mayo no. 1 goalie 2011
Fionntan O'Curraoin current Galway midfielder

Why was Kelly only being brought on as a sub ? A scoring machine when given supply.

When you look at the bare bones of it, it's pretty crazy the pick DCU have.

Personally don't put much stock in the Sigerson. Too many ringers.

[Syferus]

DCU have an excellent eye for talent. They got Donie Smith and John McManus (son of one of the finest forwards in the history of the game, Tony McManus) this year, who both featured prominently in our 2011 minor championship run, among plenty of other Roscommon under-age players. Clearly Roscommon isn't the only county they've selected exciting players from either.

At minimum both Smith and McManus will be future starters for the county - both are already involved with the senior panel - so if you're sick of DCU already it isn't going to get any better.

In strong defence of DCU, I've seen first-hand how much their input has helped players like Donie Shine, Cathal Cregg and, on recent form, David Keenan, develop. They're also imbuing players from counties other than the top three or four with the confidence that there's very little between them and the very best teams in the country and that can only ever be very good thing for the game at large.

[GalwayBayBoy]

DCU have an excellent eye for talent. They got Donie Smith and John McManus (son of one of the finest forwards in the history of the game, Tony McManus) this year, who both featured prominently in our 2011 minor championship run, among plenty of other Roscommon under-age players. Clearly Roscommon isn't the only county they've selected exciting players from either.

At minimum both Smith and McManus will be future starters for the county - both are already involved with the senior panel - so if you're sick of DCU already it isn't going to get any better.

In strong defence of DCU, I've seen first-hand how much their input has helped players like Donie Shine, Cathal Cregg and, on recent form, David Keenan, develop. They're also imbuing players from counties other than the top three or four with the confidence that there's very little between them and the very best teams in the country and that can only ever be very good thing for the game at large.

Where do you start.

[ck]

DCU have an excellent eye for talent. They got Donie Smith and John McManus (son of one of the finest forwards in the history of the game, Tony McManus) this year, who both featured prominently in our 2011 minor championship run, among plenty of other Roscommon under-age players. Clearly Roscommon isn't the only county they've selected exciting players from either.

At minimum both Smith and McManus will be future starters for the county - both are already involved with the senior panel - so if you're sick of DCU already it isn't going to get any better.

In strong defence of DCU, I've seen first-hand how much their input has helped players like Donie Shine, Cathal Cregg and, on recent form, David Keenan, develop. They're also imbuing players from counties other than the top three or four with the confidence that there's very little between them and the very best teams in the country and that can only ever be very good thing for the game at large.

Syferus, are you being serious here? Such a pile of nonsense. "DCU have an excellent eye for talent" = They approach the best county minors in the country, don't give a damn what sort of leaving cert they get and offer them all sorts of freebies to lure them up to Dublin. That's an excellent eye for talent is it? UUJ are at the same craic up north. Neither college is credible in my book and both are seen as second rate colleges as a result.
As for "developing players" ..as if that is a consideration for DCU. The only thing they are after is shoving players into courses and then try to win trophies and claim to be some sort of GAA nursary. BS.

[stronghold]

Have read with interest some of the previous comments.  I do not propose to jump into the anti DCU camp. They won this year's  Sigerson  and I congratulate them.
There always has been periods of dominance in the Sigerson cup , UCD, NUIG , UCC and more recently Tralee IT,  Sligo IT,  Jordanstown and now DCU.
I would make the following observations
1.   No other college operates an Elite Entry scheme like DCU which is outside the normal CAO application process and is a direct entry system.  In other words students can gain entry without reaching the minimum normal entry requirements for the course.  WIT, LIT Maynooth and Carlow IT operate a system that is closely related.  WIT has used their elite system to increase their influence in Fitzbibbon over many years.   Some of the rest of the Colleges operate an elite entry scheme on reduced points eg. Jordanstown, but you still must have the minimum course requirements.
2.   DCU back-up their elite athletes with generous scholarships supported by the University, sponsorship and businesses.  No other college can compete with this. I have been told that DCU spent 384, 000 euro  last year on Gaelic Game.
3.   Some people talk about a level playing but there never has been. The size of the college is a big factor. The larger universities UCD,  NUIG , UCC and Queens should be expected to dominate but this is not the case. St. Marys Belfast with 1500 students has to compete against Queens with 25, 000 students.
4.   Some colleges like DCU, UUJ , Maynooth,  Carlow IT, WIT and UL have sports and sports related courses at the heart of the college and are able to attack this type of student. You would expect these colleges to be stronger. Colleges like DCU and UUJ have very good internal structures and a full suite of sports , physio, nutritional, strength and conditioning experts with the academic staff and very good facilities.
5.   Some colleges offer  very attractive post graduate programmes.  More and more students are looking at postgrads due to the current financial climate and the lack of jobs.
6.   IT colleges can play apprentices
It should however be noted that the Higher Education rules change this September 2012
a.   No player can play for more than 6 years including fresher year.
b.   You can only do one post grad course ( but cannot play for more than the six year rule)
c.   There is going to be a limit on the number of elite entry players playing per team ( not sure how many)
d.   Apprentices can only play during the period they are actually in the college.