Division 2 2024

[tonto1888]

Donegal deserved to win but Armagh were awful. Falling back in to all the old habits I thought they had moved away from this year (Louth match excepted).

The manner of the defeat against a Donegal who will get much better is hard to take. I'd no longer be confident of an Ulster final let alone hoping for something more. 

having saw down Fermanagh and antrim they should be making it with bit to spare.

In fairness I was maybe a little raw after the match but I am not as confident as I was before yesterday

Not saying you are one of them, but Armagh fans have unrealistic expectations for this crop of players. The team is in a better place than it was but there's  still a way to go to get to Derry's level. Is McGeeney the man, I'm not sure but I don't think there is a queue for the job.  Rian O'Neill I understand has had issues outside of the game and is being eased back in. Talking of unrealistic expectations though the fans have placed too much on his shoulders and indeed Oisin's before him. Maybe just let them play football they both are class acts on their day. It was strange I'd say that the best club team in the county didn't have one starter.

this is it in a nutshell. Our fans think we are a top 4/5 team when in reality we are far from it

How exactly are we far from a top 4/5 team. We've proven against Galway and Derry in the last 2 seasons that we are on a par with those 2 sides. Arguably should have beaten Derry last season and beat Galway in the group game. Last Sunday was undoubtedly a blow and would make you reevaluate whether we have learned anything from other recent close defeats. I think we are outside the top 3 at the minute but that can easily change on the basis of one result. Our season will be defined by the Ulster championship this year as I don't think many are realistically expecting us to win the All Ireland.

In my view it would be nice to see us just throw off the shackles and give it a go. Irrespective of whether we actually win anything if we can produce football like the 2022 back door campaign I'd be more than satisfied with that. Plus it actually suits our best players to take this approach anyway as the reality is that we've been losing tight games playing the cautious, cagey stuff anyway.   

your laast paragragh sums it up. If we played to our capabilites and threw off the shackles then we could reach the AISF. As it is, despite recent QF results we arent close. We dont play good football. We cannot close out games or win big games at CP. We dont have a midfield and we lack that real top quality forward who can guarantee you at least 5/6 points in the big big games a la Clifford or McGuigan

[yellowcard]

Donegal deserved to win but Armagh were awful. Falling back in to all the old habits I thought they had moved away from this year (Louth match excepted).

The manner of the defeat against a Donegal who will get much better is hard to take. I'd no longer be confident of an Ulster final let alone hoping for something more. 

having saw down Fermanagh and antrim they should be making it with bit to spare.

In fairness I was maybe a little raw after the match but I am not as confident as I was before yesterday

Not saying you are one of them, but Armagh fans have unrealistic expectations for this crop of players. The team is in a better place than it was but there's  still a way to go to get to Derry's level. Is McGeeney the man, I'm not sure but I don't think there is a queue for the job.  Rian O'Neill I understand has had issues outside of the game and is being eased back in. Talking of unrealistic expectations though the fans have placed too much on his shoulders and indeed Oisin's before him. Maybe just let them play football they both are class acts on their day. It was strange I'd say that the best club team in the county didn't have one starter.

this is it in a nutshell. Our fans think we are a top 4/5 team when in reality we are far from it

How exactly are we far from a top 4/5 team. We've proven against Galway and Derry in the last 2 seasons that we are on a par with those 2 sides. Arguably should have beaten Derry last season and beat Galway in the group game. Last Sunday was undoubtedly a blow and would make you reevaluate whether we have learned anything from other recent close defeats. I think we are outside the top 3 at the minute but that can easily change on the basis of one result. Our season will be defined by the Ulster championship this year as I don't think many are realistically expecting us to win the All Ireland.

In my view it would be nice to see us just throw off the shackles and give it a go. Irrespective of whether we actually win anything if we can produce football like the 2022 back door campaign I'd be more than satisfied with that. Plus it actually suits our best players to take this approach anyway as the reality is that we've been losing tight games playing the cautious, cagey stuff anyway.   

your laast paragragh sums it up. If we played to our capabilites and threw off the shackles then we could reach the AISF. As it is, despite recent QF results we arent close. We dont play good football. We cannot close out games or win big games at CP. We dont have a midfield and we lack that real top quality forward who can guarantee you at least 5/6 points in the big big games a la Clifford or McGuigan

I couldn't argue with any of that but if we opened up and kicked the ball inside more regularly to 2 inside forwards I think we would be closer. And if not then at least we would have something to get behind. We have enough good kickers of the ball to play this style and make us less predictable. 

Clifford is a generational player so we don't need to have one of those as long as we have enough other good forwards which I firmly believe that we do. The obsession with risk free football and making every game an arm wrestle might help make us competitive but it won't actually help us win anything.     

[statto]

Donegal deserved to win but Armagh were awful. Falling back in to all the old habits I thought they had moved away from this year (Louth match excepted).

The manner of the defeat against a Donegal who will get much better is hard to take. I'd no longer be confident of an Ulster final let alone hoping for something more. 

having saw down Fermanagh and antrim they should be making it with bit to spare.

In fairness I was maybe a little raw after the match but I am not as confident as I was before yesterday

Not saying you are one of them, but Armagh fans have unrealistic expectations for this crop of players. The team is in a better place than it was but there's  still a way to go to get to Derry's level. Is McGeeney the man, I'm not sure but I don't think there is a queue for the job.  Rian O'Neill I understand has had issues outside of the game and is being eased back in. Talking of unrealistic expectations though the fans have placed too much on his shoulders and indeed Oisin's before him. Maybe just let them play football they both are class acts on their day. It was strange I'd say that the best club team in the county didn't have one starter.

Very strange.  I really thought Oisin would have gotten far more minutes during this league campaign considering he was the performing so well at the end of last year. Is Callum Comisky injured?

From our club, Shane McParland seems to have really fallen out of favour from where he was during the summer last year to repeatedly not making a match day squad now. Top scorer in Armagh championship last year.

The McPartlan one is a mystery especially given that this is Armagh's weakest area in my opinion. 

[tonto1888]

Donegal deserved to win but Armagh were awful. Falling back in to all the old habits I thought they had moved away from this year (Louth match excepted).

The manner of the defeat against a Donegal who will get much better is hard to take. I'd no longer be confident of an Ulster final let alone hoping for something more. 

having saw down Fermanagh and antrim they should be making it with bit to spare.

In fairness I was maybe a little raw after the match but I am not as confident as I was before yesterday

Not saying you are one of them, but Armagh fans have unrealistic expectations for this crop of players. The team is in a better place than it was but there's  still a way to go to get to Derry's level. Is McGeeney the man, I'm not sure but I don't think there is a queue for the job.  Rian O'Neill I understand has had issues outside of the game and is being eased back in. Talking of unrealistic expectations though the fans have placed too much on his shoulders and indeed Oisin's before him. Maybe just let them play football they both are class acts on their day. It was strange I'd say that the best club team in the county didn't have one starter.

this is it in a nutshell. Our fans think we are a top 4/5 team when in reality we are far from it

How exactly are we far from a top 4/5 team. We've proven against Galway and Derry in the last 2 seasons that we are on a par with those 2 sides. Arguably should have beaten Derry last season and beat Galway in the group game. Last Sunday was undoubtedly a blow and would make you reevaluate whether we have learned anything from other recent close defeats. I think we are outside the top 3 at the minute but that can easily change on the basis of one result. Our season will be defined by the Ulster championship this year as I don't think many are realistically expecting us to win the All Ireland.

In my view it would be nice to see us just throw off the shackles and give it a go. Irrespective of whether we actually win anything if we can produce football like the 2022 back door campaign I'd be more than satisfied with that. Plus it actually suits our best players to take this approach anyway as the reality is that we've been losing tight games playing the cautious, cagey stuff anyway.   

your laast paragragh sums it up. If we played to our capabilites and threw off the shackles then we could reach the AISF. As it is, despite recent QF results we arent close. We dont play good football. We cannot close out games or win big games at CP. We dont have a midfield and we lack that real top quality forward who can guarantee you at least 5/6 points in the big big games a la Clifford or McGuigan

I couldn't argue with any of that but if we opened up and kicked the ball inside more regularly to 2 inside forwards I think we would be closer. And if not then at least we would have something to get behind. We have enough good kickers of the ball to play this style and make us less predictable. 

Clifford is a generational player so we don't need to have one of those as long as we have enough other good forwards which I firmly believe that we do. The obsession with risk free football and making every game an arm wrestle might help make us competitive but it won't actually help us win anything.     

for me Rian ONeill is a problem. First up, we wont win anything without him playing but the question is where does he play best??? He could be our forward to score 6/7/8 a game but you lose what he can bring out the field. Turbo is decent but in big games he doesnt have it. Or at least he hasnt shown it yet anyway

[statto]

Talent is there or thereabouts in comparison to any of the top teams , tactical awareness and balls to go for it aren't. The Monaghan game last year still breaks my heart thinking about it, it was cowardly. I haven't had the same interest this year and I'd put it down to that game.

I would be in a similar boat, went to the Meath game was decent.  The Derry game also when ahead last year retreated into shell and subsequently lost.  To me Armagh at best when the game is a bit frantic, bit like Mayo to an extent.  Once they had the momentum in game Sunday, retreated back into shell.  I remember a few years ago they pushed up on a kickout vs tipp in league and got hit with sucker punch goal that prevented promotion from division three looks like still Geezer still haunted by this. 

[statto]

Donegal deserved to win but Armagh were awful. Falling back in to all the old habits I thought they had moved away from this year (Louth match excepted).

The manner of the defeat against a Donegal who will get much better is hard to take. I'd no longer be confident of an Ulster final let alone hoping for something more. 

having saw down Fermanagh and antrim they should be making it with bit to spare.

In fairness I was maybe a little raw after the match but I am not as confident as I was before yesterday

Not saying you are one of them, but Armagh fans have unrealistic expectations for this crop of players. The team is in a better place than it was but there's  still a way to go to get to Derry's level. Is McGeeney the man, I'm not sure but I don't think there is a queue for the job.  Rian O'Neill I understand has had issues outside of the game and is being eased back in. Talking of unrealistic expectations though the fans have placed too much on his shoulders and indeed Oisin's before him. Maybe just let them play football they both are class acts on their day. It was strange I'd say that the best club team in the county didn't have one starter.

this is it in a nutshell. Our fans think we are a top 4/5 team when in reality we are far from it

How exactly are we far from a top 4/5 team. We've proven against Galway and Derry in the last 2 seasons that we are on a par with those 2 sides. Arguably should have beaten Derry last season and beat Galway in the group game. Last Sunday was undoubtedly a blow and would make you reevaluate whether we have learned anything from other recent close defeats. I think we are outside the top 3 at the minute but that can easily change on the basis of one result. Our season will be defined by the Ulster championship this year as I don't think many are realistically expecting us to win the All Ireland.

In my view it would be nice to see us just throw off the shackles and give it a go. Irrespective of whether we actually win anything if we can produce football like the 2022 back door campaign I'd be more than satisfied with that. Plus it actually suits our best players to take this approach anyway as the reality is that we've been losing tight games playing the cautious, cagey stuff anyway.   

+1. 

[Armagh18]

Donegal deserved to win but Armagh were awful. Falling back in to all the old habits I thought they had moved away from this year (Louth match excepted).

The manner of the defeat against a Donegal who will get much better is hard to take. I'd no longer be confident of an Ulster final let alone hoping for something more. 

having saw down Fermanagh and antrim they should be making it with bit to spare.

In fairness I was maybe a little raw after the match but I am not as confident as I was before yesterday

Not saying you are one of them, but Armagh fans have unrealistic expectations for this crop of players. The team is in a better place than it was but there's  still a way to go to get to Derry's level. Is McGeeney the man, I'm not sure but I don't think there is a queue for the job.  Rian O'Neill I understand has had issues outside of the game and is being eased back in. Talking of unrealistic expectations though the fans have placed too much on his shoulders and indeed Oisin's before him. Maybe just let them play football they both are class acts on their day. It was strange I'd say that the best club team in the county didn't have one starter.

this is it in a nutshell. Our fans think we are a top 4/5 team when in reality we are far from it

How exactly are we far from a top 4/5 team. We've proven against Galway and Derry in the last 2 seasons that we are on a par with those 2 sides. Arguably should have beaten Derry last season and beat Galway in the group game. Last Sunday was undoubtedly a blow and would make you reevaluate whether we have learned anything from other recent close defeats. I think we are outside the top 3 at the minute but that can easily change on the basis of one result. Our season will be defined by the Ulster championship this year as I don't think many are realistically expecting us to win the All Ireland.

In my view it would be nice to see us just throw off the shackles and give it a go. Irrespective of whether we actually win anything if we can produce football like the 2022 back door campaign I'd be more than satisfied with that. Plus it actually suits our best players to take this approach anyway as the reality is that we've been losing tight games playing the cautious, cagey stuff anyway.   

your laast paragragh sums it up. If we played to our capabilites and threw off the shackles then we could reach the AISF. As it is, despite recent QF results we arent close. We dont play good football. We cannot close out games or win big games at CP. We dont have a midfield and we lack that real top quality forward who can guarantee you at least 5/6 points in the big big games a la Clifford or McGuigan

I couldn't argue with any of that but if we opened up and kicked the ball inside more regularly to 2 inside forwards I think we would be closer. And if not then at least we would have something to get behind. We have enough good kickers of the ball to play this style and make us less predictable. 

Clifford is a generational player so we don't need to have one of those as long as we have enough other good forwards which I firmly believe that we do. The obsession with risk free football and making every game an arm wrestle might help make us competitive but it won't actually help us win anything.     

for me Rian ONeill is a problem. First up, we wont win anything without him playing but the question is where does he play best??? He could be our forward to score 6/7/8 a game but you lose what he can bring out the field. Turbo is decent but in big games he doesnt have it. Or at least he hasnt shown it yet anyway

Wouldn't quite word it like that! I'm sure he's a problem plenty of managers would like.

Get what you're saying though, it is hard to know where to play him. If he's going to be inside he needs to be sickened with ball or its a waste. Think having the brother back will be massive as he's an option inside or can do a lot of what Rian does out the field as well in terms of winning kick outs, taking longe range scores and playing passes inside.

[tbrick18]

Donegal deserved to win but Armagh were awful. Falling back in to all the old habits I thought they had moved away from this year (Louth match excepted).

The manner of the defeat against a Donegal who will get much better is hard to take. I'd no longer be confident of an Ulster final let alone hoping for something more. 

having saw down Fermanagh and antrim they should be making it with bit to spare.

In fairness I was maybe a little raw after the match but I am not as confident as I was before yesterday

Not saying you are one of them, but Armagh fans have unrealistic expectations for this crop of players. The team is in a better place than it was but there's  still a way to go to get to Derry's level. Is McGeeney the man, I'm not sure but I don't think there is a queue for the job.  Rian O'Neill I understand has had issues outside of the game and is being eased back in. Talking of unrealistic expectations though the fans have placed too much on his shoulders and indeed Oisin's before him. Maybe just let them play football they both are class acts on their day. It was strange I'd say that the best club team in the county didn't have one starter.

this is it in a nutshell. Our fans think we are a top 4/5 team when in reality we are far from it

How exactly are we far from a top 4/5 team. We've proven against Galway and Derry in the last 2 seasons that we are on a par with those 2 sides. Arguably should have beaten Derry last season and beat Galway in the group game. Last Sunday was undoubtedly a blow and would make you reevaluate whether we have learned anything from other recent close defeats. I think we are outside the top 3 at the minute but that can easily change on the basis of one result. Our season will be defined by the Ulster championship this year as I don't think many are realistically expecting us to win the All Ireland.

In my view it would be nice to see us just throw off the shackles and give it a go. Irrespective of whether we actually win anything if we can produce football like the 2022 back door campaign I'd be more than satisfied with that. Plus it actually suits our best players to take this approach anyway as the reality is that we've been losing tight games playing the cautious, cagey stuff anyway. 

your laast paragragh sums it up. If we played to our capabilites and threw off the shackles then we could reach the AISF. As it is, despite recent QF results we arent close. We dont play good football. We cannot close out games or win big games at CP. We dont have a midfield and we lack that real top quality forward who can guarantee you at least 5/6 points in the big big games a la Clifford or McGuigan

I couldn't argue with any of that but if we opened up and kicked the ball inside more regularly to 2 inside forwards I think we would be closer. And if not then at least we would have something to get behind. We have enough good kickers of the ball to play this style and make us less predictable. 

Clifford is a generational player so we don't need to have one of those as long as we have enough other good forwards which I firmly believe that we do. The obsession with risk free football and making every game an arm wrestle might help make us competitive but it won't actually help us win anything.   

for me Rian ONeill is a problem. First up, we wont win anything without him playing but the question is where does he play best??? He could be our forward to score 6/7/8 a game but you lose what he can bring out the field. Turbo is decent but in big games he doesnt have it. Or at least he hasnt shown it yet anyway

I personally think Armagh don't have enough scoring threat, even though there seems to be a belief that they have great forwards.
Rian ONeill has the potential to be that marquee forward, but he's a confidence player and focuses too much on the physical side of the game rather than the football side. In saying all of that, for me he could be best suited to a half forward type role and given the freedom of the park. Winning ball, running at defences, taking long range frees and scores. But the temperament needs to be right.

The tell tale sign on the true level of this Armagh side is the Ulster Final last year imo. Derry were a bit of a shambles, didn't play well, had the worst possible week leading up to an Ulster final and Armagh still couldn't beat us. Derry won that game on penalties, but it should never have got to that stage. Derry still had the mental strength to keep it together for penalties even given everything that had gone on....it really was set up for Armagh and they couldn't take advantage.
So say what you want about McGeeney, but that comes down to the quality of the players in my view.
I have a feeling that when ever McGeeney does go, Armagh might only then realise that he over-achieved with the players available. But all of that is and outside view in, so I could well be wrong.

I think Armagh are a top 8/10 side - just teetering on that line between Div 1/2. Could give anyone a game, but ultimately dont have enough to seriously challenge Dublin/Kerry and hopefully Derry.
They are in that Tyrone/Monaghan/Mayo/Roscommon bracket of teams imo.

[statto]

Donegal deserved to win but Armagh were awful. Falling back in to all the old habits I thought they had moved away from this year (Louth match excepted).

The manner of the defeat against a Donegal who will get much better is hard to take. I'd no longer be confident of an Ulster final let alone hoping for something more. 

having saw down Fermanagh and antrim they should be making it with bit to spare.

In fairness I was maybe a little raw after the match but I am not as confident as I was before yesterday

Not saying you are one of them, but Armagh fans have unrealistic expectations for this crop of players. The team is in a better place than it was but there's  still a way to go to get to Derry's level. Is McGeeney the man, I'm not sure but I don't think there is a queue for the job.  Rian O'Neill I understand has had issues outside of the game and is being eased back in. Talking of unrealistic expectations though the fans have placed too much on his shoulders and indeed Oisin's before him. Maybe just let them play football they both are class acts on their day. It was strange I'd say that the best club team in the county didn't have one starter.

this is it in a nutshell. Our fans think we are a top 4/5 team when in reality we are far from it

How exactly are we far from a top 4/5 team. We've proven against Galway and Derry in the last 2 seasons that we are on a par with those 2 sides. Arguably should have beaten Derry last season and beat Galway in the group game. Last Sunday was undoubtedly a blow and would make you reevaluate whether we have learned anything from other recent close defeats. I think we are outside the top 3 at the minute but that can easily change on the basis of one result. Our season will be defined by the Ulster championship this year as I don't think many are realistically expecting us to win the All Ireland.

In my view it would be nice to see us just throw off the shackles and give it a go. Irrespective of whether we actually win anything if we can produce football like the 2022 back door campaign I'd be more than satisfied with that. Plus it actually suits our best players to take this approach anyway as the reality is that we've been losing tight games playing the cautious, cagey stuff anyway. 

your laast paragragh sums it up. If we played to our capabilites and threw off the shackles then we could reach the AISF. As it is, despite recent QF results we arent close. We dont play good football. We cannot close out games or win big games at CP. We dont have a midfield and we lack that real top quality forward who can guarantee you at least 5/6 points in the big big games a la Clifford or McGuigan

I couldn't argue with any of that but if we opened up and kicked the ball inside more regularly to 2 inside forwards I think we would be closer. And if not then at least we would have something to get behind. We have enough good kickers of the ball to play this style and make us less predictable. 

Clifford is a generational player so we don't need to have one of those as long as we have enough other good forwards which I firmly believe that we do. The obsession with risk free football and making every game an arm wrestle might help make us competitive but it won't actually help us win anything.   

for me Rian ONeill is a problem. First up, we wont win anything without him playing but the question is where does he play best??? He could be our forward to score 6/7/8 a game but you lose what he can bring out the field. Turbo is decent but in big games he doesnt have it. Or at least he hasnt shown it yet anyway

I personally think Armagh don't have enough scoring threat, even though there seems to be a belief that they have great forwards.
Rian ONeill has the potential to be that marquee forward, but he's a confidence player and focuses too much on the physical side of the game rather than the football side. In saying all of that, for me he could be best suited to a half forward type role and given the freedom of the park. Winning ball, running at defences, taking long range frees and scores. But the temperament needs to be right.

The tell tale sign on the true level of this Armagh side is the Ulster Final last year imo. Derry were a bit of a shambles, didn't play well, had the worst possible week leading up to an Ulster final and Armagh still couldn't beat us. Derry won that game on penalties, but it should never have got to that stage. Derry still had the mental strength to keep it together for penalties even given everything that had gone on....it really was set up for Armagh and they couldn't take advantage.
So say what you want about McGeeney, but that comes down to the quality of the players in my view.
I have a feeling that when ever McGeeney does go, Armagh might only then realise that he over-achieved with the players available. But all of that is and outside view in, so I could well be wrong.

I think Armagh are a top 8/10 side - just teetering on that line between Div 1/2. Could give anyone a game, but ultimately dont have enough to seriously challenge Dublin/Kerry and hopefully Derry.
They are in that Tyrone/Monaghan/Mayo/Roscommon bracket of teams imo.

Couldn't argue with that. 

[tonto1888]

Donegal deserved to win but Armagh were awful. Falling back in to all the old habits I thought they had moved away from this year (Louth match excepted).

The manner of the defeat against a Donegal who will get much better is hard to take. I'd no longer be confident of an Ulster final let alone hoping for something more. 

having saw down Fermanagh and antrim they should be making it with bit to spare.

In fairness I was maybe a little raw after the match but I am not as confident as I was before yesterday

Not saying you are one of them, but Armagh fans have unrealistic expectations for this crop of players. The team is in a better place than it was but there's  still a way to go to get to Derry's level. Is McGeeney the man, I'm not sure but I don't think there is a queue for the job.  Rian O'Neill I understand has had issues outside of the game and is being eased back in. Talking of unrealistic expectations though the fans have placed too much on his shoulders and indeed Oisin's before him. Maybe just let them play football they both are class acts on their day. It was strange I'd say that the best club team in the county didn't have one starter.

this is it in a nutshell. Our fans think we are a top 4/5 team when in reality we are far from it

How exactly are we far from a top 4/5 team. We've proven against Galway and Derry in the last 2 seasons that we are on a par with those 2 sides. Arguably should have beaten Derry last season and beat Galway in the group game. Last Sunday was undoubtedly a blow and would make you reevaluate whether we have learned anything from other recent close defeats. I think we are outside the top 3 at the minute but that can easily change on the basis of one result. Our season will be defined by the Ulster championship this year as I don't think many are realistically expecting us to win the All Ireland.

In my view it would be nice to see us just throw off the shackles and give it a go. Irrespective of whether we actually win anything if we can produce football like the 2022 back door campaign I'd be more than satisfied with that. Plus it actually suits our best players to take this approach anyway as the reality is that we've been losing tight games playing the cautious, cagey stuff anyway. 

your laast paragragh sums it up. If we played to our capabilites and threw off the shackles then we could reach the AISF. As it is, despite recent QF results we arent close. We dont play good football. We cannot close out games or win big games at CP. We dont have a midfield and we lack that real top quality forward who can guarantee you at least 5/6 points in the big big games a la Clifford or McGuigan

I couldn't argue with any of that but if we opened up and kicked the ball inside more regularly to 2 inside forwards I think we would be closer. And if not then at least we would have something to get behind. We have enough good kickers of the ball to play this style and make us less predictable. 

Clifford is a generational player so we don't need to have one of those as long as we have enough other good forwards which I firmly believe that we do. The obsession with risk free football and making every game an arm wrestle might help make us competitive but it won't actually help us win anything.   

for me Rian ONeill is a problem. First up, we wont win anything without him playing but the question is where does he play best??? He could be our forward to score 6/7/8 a game but you lose what he can bring out the field. Turbo is decent but in big games he doesnt have it. Or at least he hasnt shown it yet anyway

I personally think Armagh don't have enough scoring threat, even though there seems to be a belief that they have great forwards.
Rian ONeill has the potential to be that marquee forward, but he's a confidence player and focuses too much on the physical side of the game rather than the football side. In saying all of that, for me he could be best suited to a half forward type role and given the freedom of the park. Winning ball, running at defences, taking long range frees and scores. But the temperament needs to be right.

The tell tale sign on the true level of this Armagh side is the Ulster Final last year imo. Derry were a bit of a shambles, didn't play well, had the worst possible week leading up to an Ulster final and Armagh still couldn't beat us. Derry won that game on penalties, but it should never have got to that stage. Derry still had the mental strength to keep it together for penalties even given everything that had gone on....it really was set up for Armagh and they couldn't take advantage.
So say what you want about McGeeney, but that comes down to the quality of the players in my view.
I have a feeling that when ever McGeeney does go, Armagh might only then realise that he over-achieved with the players available. But all of that is and outside view in, so I could well be wrong.

I think Armagh are a top 8/10 side - just teetering on that line between Div 1/2. Could give anyone a game, but ultimately dont have enough to seriously challenge Dublin/Kerry and hopefully Derry.
They are in that Tyrone/Monaghan/Mayo/Roscommon bracket of teams imo.

Hard to disagree in all that you said. Hopefully rian has his head screwed on and concentrates on playing as that's what we need him doing

[Armagh18]

Donegal deserved to win but Armagh were awful. Falling back in to all the old habits I thought they had moved away from this year (Louth match excepted).

The manner of the defeat against a Donegal who will get much better is hard to take. I'd no longer be confident of an Ulster final let alone hoping for something more. 

having saw down Fermanagh and antrim they should be making it with bit to spare.

In fairness I was maybe a little raw after the match but I am not as confident as I was before yesterday

Not saying you are one of them, but Armagh fans have unrealistic expectations for this crop of players. The team is in a better place than it was but there's  still a way to go to get to Derry's level. Is McGeeney the man, I'm not sure but I don't think there is a queue for the job.  Rian O'Neill I understand has had issues outside of the game and is being eased back in. Talking of unrealistic expectations though the fans have placed too much on his shoulders and indeed Oisin's before him. Maybe just let them play football they both are class acts on their day. It was strange I'd say that the best club team in the county didn't have one starter.

this is it in a nutshell. Our fans think we are a top 4/5 team when in reality we are far from it

How exactly are we far from a top 4/5 team. We've proven against Galway and Derry in the last 2 seasons that we are on a par with those 2 sides. Arguably should have beaten Derry last season and beat Galway in the group game. Last Sunday was undoubtedly a blow and would make you reevaluate whether we have learned anything from other recent close defeats. I think we are outside the top 3 at the minute but that can easily change on the basis of one result. Our season will be defined by the Ulster championship this year as I don't think many are realistically expecting us to win the All Ireland.

In my view it would be nice to see us just throw off the shackles and give it a go. Irrespective of whether we actually win anything if we can produce football like the 2022 back door campaign I'd be more than satisfied with that. Plus it actually suits our best players to take this approach anyway as the reality is that we've been losing tight games playing the cautious, cagey stuff anyway. 

your laast paragragh sums it up. If we played to our capabilites and threw off the shackles then we could reach the AISF. As it is, despite recent QF results we arent close. We dont play good football. We cannot close out games or win big games at CP. We dont have a midfield and we lack that real top quality forward who can guarantee you at least 5/6 points in the big big games a la Clifford or McGuigan

I couldn't argue with any of that but if we opened up and kicked the ball inside more regularly to 2 inside forwards I think we would be closer. And if not then at least we would have something to get behind. We have enough good kickers of the ball to play this style and make us less predictable. 

Clifford is a generational player so we don't need to have one of those as long as we have enough other good forwards which I firmly believe that we do. The obsession with risk free football and making every game an arm wrestle might help make us competitive but it won't actually help us win anything.   

for me Rian ONeill is a problem. First up, we wont win anything without him playing but the question is where does he play best??? He could be our forward to score 6/7/8 a game but you lose what he can bring out the field. Turbo is decent but in big games he doesnt have it. Or at least he hasnt shown it yet anyway

I personally think Armagh don't have enough scoring threat, even though there seems to be a belief that they have great forwards.
Rian ONeill has the potential to be that marquee forward, but he's a confidence player and focuses too much on the physical side of the game rather than the football side. In saying all of that, for me he could be best suited to a half forward type role and given the freedom of the park. Winning ball, running at defences, taking long range frees and scores. But the temperament needs to be right.

The tell tale sign on the true level of this Armagh side is the Ulster Final last year imo. Derry were a bit of a shambles, didn't play well, had the worst possible week leading up to an Ulster final and Armagh still couldn't beat us. Derry won that game on penalties, but it should never have got to that stage. Derry still had the mental strength to keep it together for penalties even given everything that had gone on....it really was set up for Armagh and they couldn't take advantage.
So say what you want about McGeeney, but that comes down to the quality of the players in my view.
I have a feeling that when ever McGeeney does go, Armagh might only then realise that he over-achieved with the players available. But all of that is and outside view in, so I could well be wrong.

I think Armagh are a top 8/10 side - just teetering on that line between Div 1/2. Could give anyone a game, but ultimately dont have enough to seriously challenge Dublin/Kerry and hopefully Derry.
They are in that Tyrone/Monaghan/Mayo/Roscommon bracket of teams imo.

Couldn't argue with that. 

Yeah think we're there but definitely feel as though theres more in us. We've let ourselves down at key times be it letting the opposition back into games, taking the wrong decision at key times or missing a scoreable chance.

Think the last time we lost by more than a single score in league or championship was Donegal in Ulster in 2022 which is a decent record, but we've lost/drew too many tight games in that time and it's going to be something that'll be in players minds until we do get a few wins in tight games where it matters most. Think Galway and Westmeath last year we did well to get wins when it was going down to the wire.

[Applesisapples]

Donegal deserved to win but Armagh were awful. Falling back in to all the old habits I thought they had moved away from this year (Louth match excepted).

The manner of the defeat against a Donegal who will get much better is hard to take. I'd no longer be confident of an Ulster final let alone hoping for something more. 

having saw down Fermanagh and antrim they should be making it with bit to spare.

In fairness I was maybe a little raw after the match but I am not as confident as I was before yesterday

Not saying you are one of them, but Armagh fans have unrealistic expectations for this crop of players. The team is in a better place than it was but there's  still a way to go to get to Derry's level. Is McGeeney the man, I'm not sure but I don't think there is a queue for the job.  Rian O'Neill I understand has had issues outside of the game and is being eased back in. Talking of unrealistic expectations though the fans have placed too much on his shoulders and indeed Oisin's before him. Maybe just let them play football they both are class acts on their day. It was strange I'd say that the best club team in the county didn't have one starter.

this is it in a nutshell. Our fans think we are a top 4/5 team when in reality we are far from it

How exactly are we far from a top 4/5 team. We've proven against Galway and Derry in the last 2 seasons that we are on a par with those 2 sides. Arguably should have beaten Derry last season and beat Galway in the group game. Last Sunday was undoubtedly a blow and would make you reevaluate whether we have learned anything from other recent close defeats. I think we are outside the top 3 at the minute but that can easily change on the basis of one result. Our season will be defined by the Ulster championship this year as I don't think many are realistically expecting us to win the All Ireland.

In my view it would be nice to see us just throw off the shackles and give it a go. Irrespective of whether we actually win anything if we can produce football like the 2022 back door campaign I'd be more than satisfied with that. Plus it actually suits our best players to take this approach anyway as the reality is that we've been losing tight games playing the cautious, cagey stuff anyway. 

We are not at the level of Dublin, Derry or Kerry, we are a bit of Tyrone and Mayo as well and it's a toss up between us Donegal and Galway. To improve on this the obvious errors need fixed, easy turnovers, scoring return and we need to get rid of the habit of easing of on teams. Armaghs best period on Sunday was when they pushed up on Donegal, as soon as they went 1 up they eased off and a poor turnover handed the game to Donegal in the 4th minute of injury time.

[Applesisapples]

If Oisin O'Neill plays in and around Midfield you play Rian FF. Oisin has a knack of finding Rian. Get the other two togged out as well😂

[yellowcard]

Is there something to be said for both teams holding their cards close to their chest for the Championship and playing fairly shite on purpose??!!

I think there's an element of that with Armagh. I refuse to believe we've been fielding our strongest team available in the league.

Would Armagh fans be shocked if in 2 weeks time, we seen 2x ONeills, Kelly, Grimley, Duffy and Nugent start?

There will undoubtedly be some changes. McPartland was handed his debut last year in the Ulster championship having not featured in the League. So I think we will try a few different things out against and Fermanagh and hopefully Down.   

I think Rian and Duffy will definitely start. I'd definitely start Oisin O'Neill midfield and Nugent at his best starts also. But since we have seen so little of Kelly, Nugent and Grimley we don't actually know what sort of form they are producing in training.

I'm hoping it was part of a Geezer masterplan to use the 2023 gameplan in the League final and then unleash the new marauding Armagh come championship time.

[lurganblue]

Is there something to be said for both teams holding their cards close to their chest for the Championship and playing fairly shite on purpose??!!

I think there's an element of that with Armagh. I refuse to believe we've been fielding our strongest team available in the league.

Would Armagh fans be shocked if in 2 weeks time, we seen 2x ONeills, Kelly, Grimley, Duffy and Nugent start?

There will undoubtedly be some changes. McPartland was handed his debut last year in the Ulster championship having not featured in the League. So I think we will try a few different things out against and Fermanagh and hopefully Down.   

I think Rian and Duffy will definitely start. I'd definitely start Oisin O'Neill midfield and Nugent at his best starts also. But since we have seen so little of Kelly, Nugent and Grimley we don't actually know what sort of form they are producing in training.

I'm hoping it was part of a Geezer masterplan to use the 2023 gameplan in the League final and then unleash the new marauding Armagh come championship time.

I doubt Kelly, Grimley or Nugent will start. The 2 O'Neills may.

I know we talk about Rian being our potential star forward but he certainly hasnt shown that in a while. Now dont get me wrong... clutch moments, requiring big scores, he is our man.  Regularly keeping the scoreboard ticking, maybe not.

I really hope we see less of the liability side to his game this year.  I'm hoping for a learning curve like Forker years ago.