Martin Mc Guinness Passes Away at 66

[Main Street]

The likes of Paisley and Mc Guinness probably regretted much of their earlier lives,when they reached the top of the greasy pole together.But this society is littered with "reformed" characters who either deny or minimalise their past.I know a guy who is a pastor in an evangelical church who was very strongly rumoured to be heavily involved in the sectarian slaughter of two young girls and a customer in a mobile shop 25 years ago,but refuses to go to the Police.

Paisley never murdered anyone. Pretty sure Martin did. Like it or not, that is a significant difference.  You cannot discount the heinous atrocities highlighted in Ed Moloney's article.

Paisley incited a lot though and as far as many are concerned has a lot of blood on his hands too. You may not think it is the same but many do - myself included.

So does that make it okay then?  I'm no fan of Paisley myself and respect McGuiness for successfully delivering peace, but the collective air brushing of history on here regarding the incidents in Moloney's article is the elephant in the room.

What did you think of Collins, Lemass, de Valera?

Pretty sure none stooped as low as the proxy bomb.

That didn't answer my question.

What did you think of Collins, Lemass and de Valera?

This thread is about Martin McGuiness - What do you think of his likely involvement in some of the murders highlihted in Moloney's article?

Moloney is a very poor historian.
His opening paragraph is base emotional nonsense
"he was the IRA leader who had conducted an orchestra of death and destruction for most of his republican career"

Maloney endows his account to be a verified fact, an account of a murderous event based on quotes ascribed to a source, a supposed direct witness. Then having set that standard of truth (quotes from a source), he then determines the judgement   "Martin McGuinness' life is replete with examples of similar savagery"


All off the record, on the QT, and very hush-hush 

Maloney's incapable of impartiality and sets the bar of scrutiny so low that it be at a joke level.

[Applesisapples]

Maloney is a journalist, not an historian so you cannot accept as gospel all he writes, that is not to say there are not elemnts of truth. His job though is to sell books. The very people who point the finger at McGuinness et al are the same one who lionise Carson, Craig, Collins, De Valera etc... Some of them have even voted to send UK bombers and troops into Iraq and Afghanistan. Some of them rejoiced at the sinking of the Belgrano. War is dirty i for one do not condone it or the right of any one to kill for any cause, but some balance please.

[AhNowRef]

It is extremely sickening to hear the likes of that horrible aul bitter west brit Ruth Dudley Edwards on Newsnight last night and on Nolan this morning blatantly denying that Catholics were even remotely oppressed or terrorised in the old Stormont or indeed during the troubles ...  She is a unionist and continuously spouts the usual lies that the British & Unionists were whiter than white and it was all the nationalists/Catholics fault...

One of my earliest memories was being a very young child and being woken up by a British Soldier standing there with a rifle in his hand ... I come from a large Catholic family, who were NEVER involved in anything, but because we were a large Catholic family we were fair game to be raided on several occasions .. and we were .. 3 in my memory .. Lets just say it was never a pleasant experience..

And as for Tebit, well he's really not worth thinking about as he will continue to stew in his own bile .. for years to come hopefully..

But youse lads are right, only for having parents that shepherded you away from getting involved there would have been a lot more people involved..  but its very easy to see how many people did..

Reading back through the experiences of so many of the posters on here brings the memories of growing up in the late 70's and 80's all back again. Things at that time that seemed like ' normal ' everyday occurrences would be completely bewildering and terrifying to kids growing up now and thank God for that.
            We lived in a small rural housing estate in South Down. I wouldn't say it was a particularly republican area but definitely nationalist. A very vivid memory of mine is when we as a child of about 5 or 6, my brother and myself took our dog for a walk up to a hilly area above the estate. It was a wee jack russell and it raced away ahead of me up the hill barking away at something which we thought was a rabbit. When we reached the top of the hill we literally walked on top of a group of camouflaged troops with telescopic camera lens etc(they were obviously observing the estate). Our arrival had obviously blown their cover. The wee dog wouldn't stop barking so one particular get laced his boot into it which broke it's neck. The others questioned us for some time about ' who had sent us up the hill to check ' . After that, they pointed their guns at us and told us to run back down the hill and home. By the time we got home we were both hysterical. We were advised to go to the police but da didn't want any trouble so it was left at that.

This is the thing .. they could do whatever they felt like doing (and kicking/killing a dog and scaring the sh1t outta children was tame compared to most of the things they did) with no repercussions .. whether they were "reported" or not .. It was a horrible situation which people cant understand unless they went through it first hand, and to simply blame MMG & the IRA for all the troubles is so incredibly incorrect its laughable..

[red hander]

Ruth Dudley Cuntbubble is a professional contrarian getting well paid by INM to spout her anti-nationalist/republican cac.  FFS she recently referred to the RUC as "a fine police force" forced into the dustbin of history by those awful Shinners, totally ignoring its completely one-sided role. I love the way she throws in all these anecdotes about how people come up to her, almost scared, looking round to see no one is watching, to tell her everything she says and writes is absolutely true ... a complete and utter fantasist, who is not peddling her shite out of any principle, but because it pays well and she's fixed herself a wee niche in the market along with that other odious fuckwit Eoghan Harris

[haranguerer]

a horrible bitch

[Main Street]

Maloney is a journalist, not an historian so you cannot accept as gospel all he writes, that is not to say there are not elemnts of truth. His job though is to sell books. The very people who point the finger at McGuinness et al are the same one who lionise Carson, Craig, Collins, De Valera etc... Some of them have even voted to send UK bombers and troops into Iraq and Afghanistan. Some of them rejoiced at the sinking of the Belgrano. War is dirty i for one do not condone it or the right of any one to kill for any cause, but some balance please.

Apples, you're asking me to decide for myself which part of Maloney's account is truth and which is lies?
We were asked to comment on an article which claimed to have account of McGuinness' actions and in which final damming judgements were passed by Maloney on McGuinness. Maloney has set himself up on a moral and judgemental pedestal.
Veracity is the issue when reading such an account.
When Maloney's credibility as a journalist or historian is shattered in the first two paragraphs,
it is safe to dismiss all he writes in the article. If he ascribes truth to a secret source who we cannot scrutinise, then we have no idea just how much balderdash he tags onto his article in order to support his agenda. And when a source does provide an account which supports Maloney's agenda, what scrutiny does Maloney exercise to inspect that source's account and what importance does he give to witness accounts of the same incident which oppose his agenda?

[Rossfan]

Ruth Dudley Cuntbubble is a professional contrarian getting well paid by INM to spout her anti-nationalist/republican cac.  FFS she recently referred to the RUC as "a fine police force" forced into the dustbin of history by those awful Shinners, totally ignoring its completely one-sided role. I love the way she throws in all these anecdotes about how people come up to here, almost scared, looking round to see no one is watching, to tell her everything she says and writes is absolutely true ... a complete and utter fantasist, who is not peddling her shite out of any principle, but because it pays well and she's fixed herself a wee niche in the market along with that other odious fuckwit Eoghan Harris

+1.

[seafoid]

Ruth Dudley Cuntbubble is a professional contrarian getting well paid by INM to spout her anti-nationalist/republican cac.  FFS she recently referred to the RUC as "a fine police force" forced into the dustbin of history by those awful Shinners, totally ignoring its completely one-sided role. I love the way she throws in all these anecdotes about how people come up to here, almost scared, looking round to see no one is watching, to tell her everything she says and writes is absolutely true ... a complete and utter fantasist, who is not peddling her shite out of any principle, but because it pays well and she's fixed herself a wee niche in the market along with that other odious fuckwit Eoghan Harris

The Indo is still a bastion of the spirit of William Martin Murphy. And it is the guardian of 26 county small mindedness. The Indo sells that down south and the Belfast Telegraph up.north.

[yellowcard]

Without knowing its history, I've often wondered why the Independent appears to be such a pro partionist newspaper. Who is the editor of the independent?

[Avondhu star]

Would Martin not have been excommunicated for being in  the IRA?

That would be a ecumenical matter!

[AZOffaly]

Without knowing its history, I've often wondered why the Independent appears to be such a pro partionist newspaper. Who is the editor of the independent?

Always has been. It called for the execution of the 1916 leaders too. Piece of shit paper.

[Applesisapples]

Maloney is a journalist, not an historian so you cannot accept as gospel all he writes, that is not to say there are not elemnts of truth. His job though is to sell books. The very people who point the finger at McGuinness et al are the same one who lionise Carson, Craig, Collins, De Valera etc... Some of them have even voted to send UK bombers and troops into Iraq and Afghanistan. Some of them rejoiced at the sinking of the Belgrano. War is dirty i for one do not condone it or the right of any one to kill for any cause, but some balance please.

Apples, you're asking me to decide for myself which part of Maloney's account is truth and which is lies?
We were asked to comment on an article which claimed to have account of McGuinness' actions and in which final damming judgements were passed by Maloney on McGuinness. Maloney has set himself up on a moral and judgemental pedestal.
Veracity is the issue when reading such an account.
When Maloney's credibility as a journalist or historian is shattered in the first two paragraphs,
it is safe to dismiss all he writes in the article. If he ascribes truth to a secret source who we cannot scrutinise, then we have no idea just how much balderdash he tags onto his article in order to support his agenda. And when a source does provide an account which supports Maloney's agenda, what scrutiny does Maloney exercise to inspect that source's account and what importance does he give to witness accounts of the same incident which oppose his agenda?

No I am saying he cannot be read as an historian, but as someone with a skewed version of events to suit his own angle, as is the case with most journalists.

[Harold Disgracey]

Without knowing its history, I've often wondered why the Independent appears to be such a pro partionist newspaper. Who is the editor of the independent?

The bouffant twat Fionnan Sheahan.

[foxcommander]

The Indo sells that down south and the Belfast Telegraph up.north.

Are they not the same newspaper? If you look at their websites you wouldn't be able to tell the difference

[screenexile]

The Indo sells that down south and the Belfast Telegraph up.north.

Are they not the same newspaper? If you look at their websites you wouldn't be able to tell the difference

Same parent company