Ballyjamesduff

Started by Hereiam, August 30, 2016, 10:35:46 AM

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omagh_gael

Some interesting thoughts on this thread and, in my opinion, this is a perfectly reasonable discussion.

Having worked for many years with individuals with various forms of mental illness (paranoid schizophrenia, bipolar, borderline personality disorder etc) the thing that strikes me the most is how he managed to maintain his outer shell without raising some serious concerns. To have had a mental disorder that impaired your rational thinking to such an extent that you'd murder your whole family would suggest you are incredibly unwell. It is truly horrifying that his 'normal' façade was maintained to the point that he committed this heinous crime.

I have worked and supported some 'dangerous' patients who have committed serious crimes but they were unable to mask their disorder, their psychosis was up front and centre and not something they could hide.

We know we'll never truly understand his true culpability and to what extent he was in control. However, there is something that doesn't sit right with me and it's the fact the façade that Hawe put on to the outside world was truly staggering considering the act that he went on to commit and the level of psychosis required to commit such a repulsive crime. 

I don't know anyone from the area and they would not have been called to court for the investigation but it would be interesting to hear if any of them noticed a change in his personality. The conflict mentioned at school could be telling, was this caused by Hawe's developing psychosis? Also, it's very unusual for psychosis to develop so late in life, it usually rears it's head around late teens/early twenties. Although, there is a clear understanding that acute periods of stress can exacerbate an underlying genetic predisposition to mental ill health.

Orior

I agree that this thread should stay open because it is educational. There are also a few questions to which there is no straight answer. Discussing these openly here might actually help someone.

I'm no counsellor, but if Hawe had spoken to someone openly about his issues, then five lives could have been saved. Isn't that the important lesson here?
Cover me in chocolate and feed me to the lesbians

seafoid

Quote from: Orior on December 21, 2017, 03:39:51 PM
I agree that this thread should stay open because it is educational. There are also a few questions to which there is no straight answer. Discussing these openly here might actually help someone.

I'm no counsellor, but if Hawe had spoken to someone openly about his issues, then five lives could have been saved. Isn't that the important lesson here?
Maybe he could also have returned to full health
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

mouview

Quote from: Orior on December 21, 2017, 03:39:51 PM
I agree that this thread should stay open because it is educational. There are also a few questions to which there is no straight answer. Discussing these openly here might actually help someone.

I'm no counsellor, but if Hawe had spoken to someone openly about his issues, then five lives could have been saved. Isn't that the important lesson here?

Not so sure. He did consult his GP and had counselling earlier in his life. Not an expert by any means, but sometimes these issues are very, very hard to resolve.

omagh_gael

Quote from: mrdeeds on December 21, 2017, 07:52:19 PM
The Sun today had what his fall from grace was. If you can believe that rag.

Just checked that out and it adds another dimension to the tragedy. If that is true it adds more weight to him demonstrating greater culpability, imo.

Aaron Boone

Quote from: omagh_gael on December 21, 2017, 08:19:16 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on December 21, 2017, 07:52:19 PM
The Sun today had what his fall from grace was. If you can believe that rag.

Just checked that out and it adds another dimension to the tragedy. If that is true it adds more weight to him demonstrating greater culpability, imo.
Strange the school principal didn't have input at the inquest.

Dubh driocht

Quote from: Orior on December 21, 2017, 03:39:51 PM
I agree that this thread should stay open because it is educational. There are also a few questions to which there is no straight answer. Discussing these openly here might actually help someone.

I'm no counsellor, but if Hawe had spoken to someone openly about his issues, then five lives could have been saved. Isn't that the important lesson here?

Valid post.
One issue that we haven't talked about in enough detail on the thread  (I haven't, and won't, read the Sun) is the fact that it was a man who murdered his partner and children. The case of Mary Keegan who murdered her children has been mentioned but there have been a number of cases in recent years where a man has murdered his partner and then murdered the children and then committed suicide Now I'm a man, a GAA man, and have links to Cavan.  I am also sympathetic and understanding of people who have mental ill-health. But my question is why do women who have mental health problems rarely murder their partner and children? Many men and women have mental health challenges but very few go on to murder their partners and children. This man felt he was facing loss of reputation but how the hell does that lead to murdering your partner and children ? We men, and GAA men, should actively challenge this idea that we have the right to control or have power over our partners. Some posters have focussed on mental health and some have even referred to the Irish News as gutter journalism because it suggested it was the man who did it. This guy used the ultimate control - murder- and it is horrible. So, no man ever has the right to have power and control over his partner. This was domestic violence, linked to mental health, and we should call it.

Hardy


seafoid

Quote from: Dubh driocht on December 21, 2017, 11:18:53 PM
Quote from: Orior on December 21, 2017, 03:39:51 PM
I agree that this thread should stay open because it is educational. There are also a few questions to which there is no straight answer. Discussing these openly here might actually help someone.

I'm no counsellor, but if Hawe had spoken to someone openly about his issues, then five lives could have been saved. Isn't that the important lesson here?

Valid post.
One issue that we haven't talked about in enough detail on the thread  (I haven't, and won't, read the Sun) is the fact that it was a man who murdered his partner and children. The case of Mary Keegan who murdered her children has been mentioned but there have been a number of cases in recent years where a man has murdered his partner and then murdered the children and then committed suicide Now I'm a man, a GAA man, and have links to Cavan.  I am also sympathetic and understanding of people who have mental ill-health. But my question is why do women who have mental health problems rarely murder their partner and children? Many men and women have mental health challenges but very few go on to murder their partners and children. This man felt he was facing loss of reputation but how the hell does that lead to murdering your partner and children ? We men, and GAA men, should actively challenge this idea that we have the right to control or have power over our partners. Some posters have focussed on mental health and some have even referred to the Irish News as gutter journalism because it suggested it was the man who did it. This guy used the ultimate control - murder- and it is horrible. So, no man ever has the right to have power and control over his partner. This was domestic violence, linked to mental health, and we should call it.
I can think of 2 cases where women killed at least on child and then themselves with both lineed to postnatal depression.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

charlieTully

We now have people diagnosed with psychosis when they are dead. How did that mental state examination happen.? As a previous poster stated  this thread should be closed. Halfwits posing as forensic psychiatrists. 

manfromdelmonte

I'd prefer discussion threads such as this to be left open

I never want to be the teacher or school who has to deal with the aftermath of such a tragic event in school the next day.
Harrowing for everyone involved.

Esmarelda

Quote from: charlieTully on December 22, 2017, 11:21:02 AM
We now have people diagnosed with psychosis when they are dead. How did that mental state examination happen.? As a previous poster stated  this thread should be closed. Halfwits posing as forensic psychiatrists.
Who diagnosed him with psychosis, if that's even possible?

The expert said that he progressed to psychotic symptoms. He was asked to give his opinion.


tonto1888

Quote from: manfromdelmonte on December 22, 2017, 01:32:10 PM
I'd prefer discussion threads such as this to be left open

I never want to be the teacher or school who has to deal with the aftermath of such a tragic event in school the next day.
Harrowing for everyone involved.

A girl I used to teach hung herself when she was 17/18. She left the school after GCSEs but her friends were still there. It was not very nice at all

seafoid

I think the term "forensic psychiatrist" is misleading.  Nobody knows how our brains work. Psychiatry is mostly trial and error. Tablets may or may not work.

If someone takes their own life there is no way to reconstruct  what they were thinking. There is a black box but nobody knows how to read it.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

charlieTully

Quote from: Esmarelda on December 22, 2017, 01:44:02 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on December 22, 2017, 11:21:02 AM
We now have people diagnosed with psychosis when they are dead. How did that mental state examination happen.? As a previous poster stated  this thread should be closed. Halfwits posing as forensic psychiatrists.
Who diagnosed him with psychosis, if that's even possible?

The expert said that he progressed to psychotic symptoms. He was asked to give his opinion.

A diagnosis after death can only be speculation.