Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[armaghniac]

But if it wasn't possible to evacuate the original 38k planned capacity quickly and safely in the event of an emergency, I fail to see how they can now get 34k out, when the original estimate from the safety experts was barely half that.

As there are plenty of stadiums two or three times this size, evacuation is not intrinsically impossible. So it would depend on what exactly the issue was whether it remains a problem.

[JPGJOHNNYG]

The evacuation issue would probably be solved with the buying of a few of the surrounding houses to help the flow

[Evil Genius]

But if it wasn't possible to evacuate the original 38k planned capacity quickly and safely in the event of an emergency, I fail to see how they can now get 34k out, when the original estimate from the safety experts was barely half that.

As there are plenty of stadiums two or three times this size, evacuation is not intrinsically impossible. So it would depend on what exactly the issue was whether it remains a problem.

The issue was that in the event of an emergency, there is only one evacuation route in this location which could cope with large numbers in a hurry, made worse if the emergency was at or near that route.

Does the revised plan incorporate extra evacuation routes which the original plan lacked?

[Evil Genius]

The evacuation issue would probably be solved with the buying of a few of the surrounding houses to help the flow

Assuming a "few" surrounding houses would do it - and I don't know whether it would or not - have the GAA bought them yet?

Or have they the intention - and the money - to do so?

What if the present occupiers decline to sell?

How long would such a process take, esp if it needed CPO's? And with contruction inflation costs continuing to rise, how much would that delay add to the overall cost?

They've not explained yet how/where they propose to meet the latest cost estimate, never mind what it might be in another year or two. Or three? Four?

Has the GAA ever heard of the Sunken Cost Fallacy?
https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/the-sunk-cost-fallacy/

[general_lee]

I totally understand why residents don't want this on their doorstep. From an Antrim GAA point of view I honestly feel they should have looked to another location. The traffic problems alone should have rendered casement a non-viable option.

The stadium has been there for over 60 years. It isn't really on to choose to live beside a stadium, a railway line or whatever and then campaign to have it closed down or crippled in its operation.

I get that but at the same time the proposed change in use means there will be a marked increase in antisocial behaviour so I understand the concerns.

I just think the GAA would have been better off selling the land and starting afresh somewhere with less traffic congestion and no chance of residential complaints.

The problem with selling it now , is that it's worth has dropped considerably given the planning concerns. Ie who would buy if they thought they were likely to have 10 years of planning arguments ?
I think arguments around safety, light etc in the new stadium are valid , but can't be insurmountable given the precedents set elsewhere

Those houses would sell in a heart beat stadium or no stadium. While the arguments you mention are valid, they're no different to what already existed prior to casement closing.

[rrhf]

How much do the judicial reviews cost? the GAA and MORA?

[Evil Genius]

How much do the judicial reviews cost? the GAA and MORA?

No cost to the GAA - the JR is against the Dept. of Infrastructure at Stormont, with their costs being capped at £35k, while MORA's costs have been capped at £10k.

Casement Park: Residents in new legal bid against GAA stadium

A west Belfast residents' group has cleared the first stage in a High Court challenge to a planned new Gaelic Athletic Association (GAA) stadium.

The Mooreland and Owenvarragh Residents Association (Mora) was granted leave to seek a judicial review of the decision to approve a rebuild of Casement Park.

A judge listed the challenge for a full hearing over three days in March 2022.

Infrastructure Minister Nichola Mallon gave planning permission for a 34,000-capacity arena in July.

But some of those living in the surrounding area are opposed to the scale of the estimated £110m project.

Concerns have been raised that the height of the stadium as well as matchday traffic, parking and noise could cause significant harm to the neighbourhood.

More here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59418347

[Evil Genius]

Anyhow, this is the real reason I popped onto the forum.

A while back, the Englsih FA decided that they wanted to stage the 2030 World Cup Finals - it is Europe's turn after all, though FIFA is doing all it can to take it elsewhere.

Anyhow, to make their bid more attractive (and ensure 4 extra votes), they investigated a joint bid by all four "home" nations, plus ROI.

But now that it appears that that was never going to succeed due to the politics of football (both small "p" and large "P"), they've decided to withdraw and opt for the 2028 European Finals instead, for which they must have a decent chance.

The problem for NI being that if we are to host games, the 18k capacity at Windsor isn't big enough, nor can/will it be be expanded to the 30k minimun requirement.

Meaning that although they've not said so explicitly, the IFA is clearly hoping that Casement will be completed and available in time to step in - more here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60288998

Thoughts anyone?

[HokeyPokey]

Anyhow, this is the real reason I popped onto the forum.

A while back, the Englsih FA decided that they wanted to stage the 2030 World Cup Finals - it is Europe's turn after all, though FIFA is doing all it can to take it elsewhere.

Anyhow, to make their bid more attractive (and ensure 4 extra votes), they investigated a joint bid by all four "home" nations, plus ROI.

But now that it appears that that was never going to succeed due to the politics of football (both small "p" and large "P"), they've decided to withdraw and opt for the 2028 European Finals instead, for which they must have a decent chance.

The problem for NI being that if we are to host games, the 18k capacity at Windsor isn't big enough, nor can/will it be be expanded to the 30k minimun requirement.

Meaning that although they've not said so explicitly, the IFA is clearly hoping that Casement will be completed and available in time to step in - more here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60288998

Thoughts anyone?

Two things are interesting, that the IFA apparently are in constant contact with Ulster GAA and it's also odd that they won't confirm Casement as the host stadium which is the only viable option.

I would think it could be a good thing and would be interesting to see. I would be concerned that despite the IFA's efforts to depoliticise things that the location could make it attractive for fair weather supporters who might want an opportunity to antagonise. I would assume the locals wouldn't mind as long as theirs no trouble and maybe some of the players from nationalist backgrounds might help smooth things.

Your own thoughts?   

[Evil Genius]

Two things are interesting, that the IFA apparently are in constant contact with Ulster GAA and it's also odd that they won't confirm Casement as the host stadium which is the only viable option.

Seeing as it's not the IFA's stadium, it must be for the GAA to offer, rather than for the IFA to presume - good manners, really.

And as for the regular contact, that's not at all unusual. Along with the rugby boys, they and the GAA routinely stage joint events (kids coaching etc). If nothing else, it's pretty much a requirement for funding from Stormont and the Sports Council etc.

I would think it could be a good thing and would be interesting to see. I would be concerned that despite the IFA's efforts to depoliticise things that the location could make it attractive for fair weather supporters who might want an opportunity to antagonise. I would assume the locals wouldn't mind as long as theirs no trouble and maybe some of the players from nationalist backgrounds might help smooth things.

Your own thoughts?

When eg Linfield or Glentoran fans can go to ganes at Cliftonville, or occasionally to Derry City or Dundlak etc, and NI fans have gone to Dublin without incident, I don't foresee any great problems in attending games in West Belfast.

Besides which, NI would almost certainly have to qualify for the Finals, which is hardly a given. Meaning that I doubt you'd have any trouble at games between eg Spain, Norway, Biulgaria, Switzerland etc (Though the Dutch in those Orange shirts might raise a few eyebrows  )

Beyond that, other than the standard GAA pitch dimensions meaning that soccer spectators would be miles from the action, I have no strong opinions either way - fire ahead, I say.

Though I would hope that those Finals weren't used as an excuse to find another few million quid for Casement over-and-above their original allocation from Stormont - at least if an equivalent excess wasn't also available to the IFA (and Ulster Rugby)

[Champion The Wonder Horse]

Anyhow, this is the real reason I popped onto the forum.

A while back, the Englsih FA decided that they wanted to stage the 2030 World Cup Finals - it is Europe's turn after all, though FIFA is doing all it can to take it elsewhere.

Anyhow, to make their bid more attractive (and ensure 4 extra votes), they investigated a joint bid by all four "home" nations, plus ROI.

But now that it appears that that was never going to succeed due to the politics of football (both small "p" and large "P"), they've decided to withdraw and opt for the 2028 European Finals instead, for which they must have a decent chance.

The problem for NI being that if we are to host games, the 18k capacity at Windsor isn't big enough, nor can/will it be be expanded to the 30k minimun requirement.

Meaning that although they've not said so explicitly, the IFA is clearly hoping that Casement will be completed and available in time to step in - more here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60288998

Thoughts anyone?

If completed in time, Casement Park should be made available as one of the venues for the tournament.

[armaghniac]

Though I would hope that those Finals weren't used as an excuse to find another few million quid for Casement over-and-above their original allocation from Stormont - at least if an equivalent excess wasn't also available to the IFA (and Ulster Rugby)

The Euro finals are an additional issue beyond regular use, with benefits for hotels, tourism etc. The funding should go to the stadium that makes this possible, not other ones.

[Evil Genius]

Though I would hope that those Finals weren't used as an excuse to find another few million quid for Casement over-and-above their original allocation from Stormont - at least if an equivalent excess wasn't also available to the IFA (and Ulster Rugby)

The Euro finals are an additional issue beyond regular use, with benefits for hotels, tourism etc. The funding should go to the stadium that makes this possible, not other ones.

The original funding (i.e. taxpayers' money) was shared out fairly and equitably, according to need and own contribution, with the GAA getting far more than the others. Both the IFA and UR managed to spend it, on time and within budget.

Meaning that if the GAA needs extra funding to bale out their own rank incompetence, at the very least IFA and UR should receive an additional extra tranche - otherwise you'd effectively be "punishing" them for their own proper stewardship, while rewarding the GAA for their own lamentable failure.

Which is the basis on which Casement should be rebuilt.

As for the Euro's the original funding was not supplied by Stormont for that purpose, so it is not justifiable to try to apply it retrospectively.

Rather if the GAA can do the job they're being funded for, and get it built in the next five years, then if they choose to make the stadium available for the Euro's, they will be remunerated by rent, just as the same as if it was eg a boxing match or a pop concert. (Though maybe not Garth Brookes  )

[Main Street]

It's bad enough for the loyalists to have to put up with a conspiratorial cabal of nationalist civil servants, an abundance of gaa jerseys in Queens, nationalists demanding equality,  but the line in the sand is nationalists getting more from the subvention. And if it's the GAA , hell no, that goes against the fiundamental grain of institutionalized Unionist privilege.

[armaghniac]

Rather if the GAA can do the job they're being funded for, and get it built in the next five years, then if they choose to make the stadium available for the Euro's, they will be remunerated by rent, just as the same as if it was eg a boxing match or a pop concert. (Though maybe not Garth Brookes  )

There may be things required for the Euros that are not much needed by the GAA, adding temporary seating, extra press facilities etc. You could see Dublin, Cardiff or Edinburgh helping out their local stadium and Belfast should do, to an appropriate extent.