The SDLP

Started by ardmhachaabu, April 23, 2010, 09:32:25 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Armamike

#810
Quote from: Snapchap on November 20, 2020, 12:50:44 PM
Quote from: Armamike on November 20, 2020, 12:02:23 PM
How would you propose that a united Ireland will be sold to unionists? Because if there's no buy in to a degree from one side we know from history what is likely to happen.  I aspire to a united Ireland but I want to see a vision clearly articulated and sold to the people.  I don't see that from SF or the SDLP at the minute. In fact, if you ask a politician to give a case for it, they tend to stumble.
I'd propose it be sold to unionists by political persuasion. To my mind, it's a no brainer: a small island, with duplicated services, part in the EU and part out of it (with a border that hinders business between north and south and a border down the sea to hinder business between east and west?) With the north totally subject to and at the mercy of the electoral whims of the worst vestiges of English nationalism, with unionists having allegiance to a landmass across the sea who's people have made it clear have no heed on the north whatsoever and want nothing to do with it? How does any of that serve us? Wouldn't unionism be better served being a big fish in the Dáíl than be a minnow in Westminster for the rest of their days? The only freak result where they held a supposed balance of power in westminster and their electoral reps were still lied to then flung under a bus at the earliest opportunity?
The thing is, I too want reunification sold to the people and as it stands, we have two parties which at least say they want reunification. So it's up to them to articulate the benefits. As far as I can see, only one of them at least tries. The greatest way to persuade unionism will be by convincing them of the economic benefits. SF are actually TODAY publishing a document outlining those economic benefits of reunification. When have the SDLP been pro-active enough to do so? Literally never, as far as I can see. So as I say, I'll continue to vote the party that I feel does most to advance my preferred outcome on the single biggest political issue of our time. That's not to say SF get a ringing endorsement. There are many things they could do better but at least they are not tokensitic in their advocating or ashamed to talk about it.


Quote from: Armamike on November 20, 2020, 12:02:23 PM
I don't want to see SF lead or take control of a future looking united Ireland agenda. The case needs to be built by and involve a much broader pool of stakeholders, opinion formers etc (call it civic nationalism or whatever).  There has to be some buy in from people from a unionist background or leaning. SF are toxic to that electorate and on their own won't deliver anything peaceful or lasting.
You mightn't want SF to take the lead, but in reality, if it's left to civic nationalism to do the persuasion, and political nationalism is seen to disengage from the core political aspiration of Irish nationalism, then it's just a non runner. It has to be an all in effort from the civic and the political. Speaking out in favour of reunification needs to be mainstreamed among across all shades of nationalism. If the SDLP are seen as more palatable to unionism, then maybe people like you ought to lobby that party to get off their ass and take a bit of initiative, and let unionism hear the arguments come from them for once. As it stands, they are leaving it to SF to do the work. If you want a United Ireland, then maybe stop taking such issue with the nationalist party that's working for it, and start taking issue with the one that isn't. FFS public support for a United Ireland is at it's highest point since partition, and Brexit has the potential to grow that support significantly, and what are the SDLP doing to take advantage of this opportunity to advocate their stated aspiration for Irish unity? Nothing. Same as always. And you are 100% right in saying there has to be unionist buy in. SF have held umpten confrences on the subject and these seem to always include unionist panelists/speakers. When did the SDLP last try to produce a document or an event, aimed purely at enhancing the unity project and invite anyone whatsoever?

Some strong arguments there for a UI.  Unionists would need to know that they have a voice.  I want to see those arguing for a UI to show a vision for how it would actually work and how it could look.  Will it be a cold house for unionists?  If we refer to the Dail with images of direct rule from Dublin, that's not a great starting point imo.  We're a very small country in geographical and population terms but a federal type of arrangement with some kind of devolvement to provinces would need to be considered.  This is the kind of conversation we need to be having now.  The more gaps there are and the more unanswered questions as to how it would actually look and work in practice, the more anxiety and lack of buy in, not just from moderate unionists but the undecided. This was a big factor in the SNP losing the referendum vote - they just didn't have the answers to questions on the basic issues affecting peoples' lives.  I agree with you, the SDLP could be more proactive on this.  To be honest, I don't know much about the SDLP's efforts behind the scenes on this. They do have a key role to play.   
That's just, like your opinion man.

Snapchap

#811
Quote from: LCohen on November 20, 2020, 03:50:19 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 20, 2020, 12:50:44 PM
Quote from: Armamike on November 20, 2020, 12:02:23 PM
How would you propose that a united Ireland will be sold to unionists? Because if there's no buy in to a degree from one side we know from history what is likely to happen.  I aspire to a united Ireland but I want to see a vision clearly articulated and sold to the people.  I don't see that from SF or the SDLP at the minute. In fact, if you ask a politician to give a case for it, they tend to stumble.
I'd propose it be sold to unionists by political persuasion. To my mind, it's a no brainer: a small island, with duplicated services, part in the EU and part out of it (with a border that hinders business between north and south and a border down the sea to hinder business between east and west?) With the north totally subject to and at the mercy of the electoral whims of the worst vestiges of English nationalism, with unionists having allegiance to a landmass across the sea who's people have made it clear have no heed on the north whatsoever and want nothing to do with it? How does any of that serve us? Wouldn't unionism be better served being a big fish in the Dáíl than be a minnow in Westminster for the rest of their days? The only freak result where they held a supposed balance of power in westminster and their electoral reps were still lied to then flung under a bus at the earliest opportunity?
The thing is, I too want reunification sold to the people and as it stands, we have two parties which at least say they want reunification. So it's up to them to articulate the benefits. As far as I can see, only one of them at least tries. The greatest way to persuade unionism will be by convincing them of the economic benefits. SF are actually TODAY publishing a document outlining those economic benefits of reunification. When have the SDLP been pro-active enough to do so? Literally never, as far as I can see. So as I say, I'll continue to vote the party that I feel does most to advance my preferred outcome on the single biggest political issue of our time. That's not to say SF get a ringing endorsement. There are many things they could do better but at least they are not tokensitic in their advocating or ashamed to talk about it.


Quote from: Armamike on November 20, 2020, 12:02:23 PM
I don't want to see SF lead or take control of a future looking united Ireland agenda. The case needs to be built by and involve a much broader pool of stakeholders, opinion formers etc (call it civic nationalism or whatever).  There has to be some buy in from people from a unionist background or leaning. SF are toxic to that electorate and on their own won't deliver anything peaceful or lasting.
You mightn't want SF to take the lead, but in reality, if it's left to civic nationalism to do the persuasion, and political nationalism is seen to disengage from the core political aspiration of Irish nationalism, then it's just a non runner. It has to be an all in effort from the civic and the political. Speaking out in favour of reunification needs to be mainstreamed among across all shades of nationalism. If the SDLP are seen as more palatable to unionism, then maybe people like you ought to lobby that party to get off their ass and take a bit of initiative, and let unionism hear the arguments come from them for once. As it stands, they are leaving it to SF to do the work. If you want a United Ireland, then maybe stop taking such issue with the nationalist party that's working for it, and start taking issue with the one that isn't. FFS public support for a United Ireland is at it's highest point since partition, and Brexit has the potential to grow that support significantly, and what are the SDLP doing to take advantage of this opportunity to advocate their stated aspiration for Irish unity? Nothing. Same as always. And you are 100% right in saying there has to be unionist buy in. SF have held umpten confrences on the subject and these seem to always include unionist panelists/speakers. When did the SDLP last try to produce a document or an event, aimed purely at enhancing the unity project and invite anyone whatsoever?

Has the document being published yet?

Please tell me the lies of the past are not repeated? If the document claims that "non-identifiable public expenditures" can just be ignored and that NI pensions will be funded from London in a UI scenario then you dismiss the whole thing as a fraud.

It's not just a matter of printing a document. Paper doesn't refuse ink. The contents have to accurate. Every previous effort by SF has dealt in lies

You make an assumption that pensions being funded from London is a lie. The document does raise this topic:

Quote
"And [the subvention figure) would be reduced further because £3.5 billion is spent on pensions. The people of the North have already accrued pension rights by way of their national insurance contributions.  This fact was recognised by the then British Pensions Minister Steve Webb (7 May 2014) who during the debate on Scottish Independence referenced the rights of pensioners in Scotland. He stated:"Yes,  they  have  accumulated  rights  into  the  UK  system,  under  the  UK system's rules."He said: "Take a Scottish person who works all their life and then retires to France... they still have an accumulated pension right in respect of the National Insurance they have paid in when they were part of the United Kingdom.""

I've only just glanced at the document which is available online. I haven't read it yet, nor done any form of critical analysis. You, however, have seconded guessed it's contents and pronounced them as lies, before having seen the thing at all.

LCohen

Quote from: Franko on November 20, 2020, 04:06:47 PM
Given that people will have paid their way into the British Exchequer for their whole working lives up until the point of separation, how can it be argued that the British Government would not bear liability for this?

You are assessing one side of the issue. And assessing it correctly

The beneficiary of the pensions have accrued their rights and that will to be met.

The question is who has the responsibility to meet it.

To state the obvious NI is currently a constituent part of the UK of GB & NI. In a UI scenario it would cease to be. In leaving it would take the ongoing position with it. The UK of GB & NI would cease to be and would cease to be responsible for NI. There would have to be a divorce settlement to establish where the lines would be drawn but there are precedents. When ROI was set up it took on these liabilities in RoI. As UK leaves the EU it takes the pensions liability with it. In the Scottish independence referendum it was established that Scots would retain their UK pension rights but at the expense of the would-be Scottish exchequer.

LCohen

Quote from: Snapchap on November 20, 2020, 04:39:06 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 20, 2020, 03:50:19 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 20, 2020, 12:50:44 PM
Quote from: Armamike on November 20, 2020, 12:02:23 PM
How would you propose that a united Ireland will be sold to unionists? Because if there's no buy in to a degree from one side we know from history what is likely to happen.  I aspire to a united Ireland but I want to see a vision clearly articulated and sold to the people.  I don't see that from SF or the SDLP at the minute. In fact, if you ask a politician to give a case for it, they tend to stumble.
I'd propose it be sold to unionists by political persuasion. To my mind, it's a no brainer: a small island, with duplicated services, part in the EU and part out of it (with a border that hinders business between north and south and a border down the sea to hinder business between east and west?) With the north totally subject to and at the mercy of the electoral whims of the worst vestiges of English nationalism, with unionists having allegiance to a landmass across the sea who's people have made it clear have no heed on the north whatsoever and want nothing to do with it? How does any of that serve us? Wouldn't unionism be better served being a big fish in the Dáíl than be a minnow in Westminster for the rest of their days? The only freak result where they held a supposed balance of power in westminster and their electoral reps were still lied to then flung under a bus at the earliest opportunity?
The thing is, I too want reunification sold to the people and as it stands, we have two parties which at least say they want reunification. So it's up to them to articulate the benefits. As far as I can see, only one of them at least tries. The greatest way to persuade unionism will be by convincing them of the economic benefits. SF are actually TODAY publishing a document outlining those economic benefits of reunification. When have the SDLP been pro-active enough to do so? Literally never, as far as I can see. So as I say, I'll continue to vote the party that I feel does most to advance my preferred outcome on the single biggest political issue of our time. That's not to say SF get a ringing endorsement. There are many things they could do better but at least they are not tokensitic in their advocating or ashamed to talk about it.


Quote from: Armamike on November 20, 2020, 12:02:23 PM
I don't want to see SF lead or take control of a future looking united Ireland agenda. The case needs to be built by and involve a much broader pool of stakeholders, opinion formers etc (call it civic nationalism or whatever).  There has to be some buy in from people from a unionist background or leaning. SF are toxic to that electorate and on their own won't deliver anything peaceful or lasting.
You mightn't want SF to take the lead, but in reality, if it's left to civic nationalism to do the persuasion, and political nationalism is seen to disengage from the core political aspiration of Irish nationalism, then it's just a non runner. It has to be an all in effort from the civic and the political. Speaking out in favour of reunification needs to be mainstreamed among across all shades of nationalism. If the SDLP are seen as more palatable to unionism, then maybe people like you ought to lobby that party to get off their ass and take a bit of initiative, and let unionism hear the arguments come from them for once. As it stands, they are leaving it to SF to do the work. If you want a United Ireland, then maybe stop taking such issue with the nationalist party that's working for it, and start taking issue with the one that isn't. FFS public support for a United Ireland is at it's highest point since partition, and Brexit has the potential to grow that support significantly, and what are the SDLP doing to take advantage of this opportunity to advocate their stated aspiration for Irish unity? Nothing. Same as always. And you are 100% right in saying there has to be unionist buy in. SF have held umpten confrences on the subject and these seem to always include unionist panelists/speakers. When did the SDLP last try to produce a document or an event, aimed purely at enhancing the unity project and invite anyone whatsoever?

Has the document being published yet?

Please tell me the lies of the past are not repeated? If the document claims that "non-identifiable public expenditures" can just be ignored and that NI pensions will be funded from London in a UI scenario then you dismiss the whole thing as a fraud.

It's not just a matter of printing a document. Paper doesn't refuse ink. The contents have to accurate. Every previous effort by SF has dealt in lies

You make an assumption that pensions being funded from London is a lie. The document does raise this topic:

Quote
"And [the subvention figure) would be reduced further because £3.5 billion is spent on pensions. The people of the North have already accrued pension rights by way of their national insurance contributions.  This fact was recognised by the then British Pensions Minister Steve Webb (7 May 2014) who during the debate on Scottish Independence referenced the rights of pensioners in Scotland. He stated:"Yes,  they  have  accumulated  rights  into  the  UK  system,  under  the  UK system's rules."He said: "Take a Scottish person who works all their life and then retires to France... they still have an accumulated pension right in respect of the National Insurance they have paid in when they were part of the United Kingdom.""

I've only just glanced at the document which is available online. I haven't read it yet, nor done any form of critical analysis. You, however, have seconded guessed it's contents and pronounced them as lies, before having seen the thing at all.

What an utterly silly response.

I have not read the document yet.

I said that I hoped it did not repeat the lies of previous efforts. Your contribution seems to indicate that it has. If it contains lies we should definitely call them out.

If you read the reply above re pensions you will see what I mean

Angelo

Quote from: Boycey on November 19, 2020, 05:31:35 PM
Guessed when I came in here for a nosey that Angelo would figure prominently in whatever was going on...

A one man thread ruining wrecking ball.

What is it you have an issue with?
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

Angelo

The SDLP really aren't a nationalist party and that's about the nub of it.
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

Rossfan

Would I be right to presume that the new All Ireland entity will not inherit the 6 Cos share of the "UK" National debt?

I suppose getting reparations from 1169 is out of the question :-\
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

LCohen

Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2020, 06:34:01 PM
Would I be right to presume that the new All Ireland entity will not inherit the 6 Cos share of the "UK" National debt?

I suppose getting reparations from 1169 is out of the question :-\

To early to say. It would have to negotiated at the time. A benevolent interpretation would be that NI is so small relative to GB and its so costly that GB would cut their losses. An alternative interpretation is that the hardliners would say no feckin way or even no way will we sell our unionist brethren down the river. It's very unpredictable. Depends on which party/parties are in power in Westminster, how large is their majority, what factions exist within the ruling party and how strong the economy and economic outlook is. Very unpredictable.

IRA always said they only had to get lucky once. This would be the once for nationalism

LCohen

Quote from: Angelo on November 20, 2020, 06:13:51 PM
The SDLP really aren't a nationalist party and that's about the nub of it.

If they published an economic document based on lies would that make them more or less nationalist?

marty34

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 20, 2020, 12:14:07 PM
Quote from: Armamike on November 20, 2020, 12:02:23 PM
How would you propose that a united Ireland will be sold to unionists? Because if there's no buy in to a degree from one side we know from history what is likely to happen.  I aspire to a united Ireland but I want to see a vision clearly articulated and sold to the people.  I don't see that from SF or the SDLP at the minute. In fact, if you ask a politician to give a case for it, they tend to stumble.  I don't want to see SF lead or take control of a future looking united Ireland agenda.  The case needs to be built by and involve a much broader pool of stakeholders, opinion formers etc (call it civic nationalism or whatever).  There has to be some buy in from people from a unionist background or leaning. SF are toxic to that electorate and on their own won't deliver anything peaceful or lasting.

There will be no UNITED Ireland anytime soon. What I mean is even if we see it physically we will not have a happy or peaceful society. Unionists are not ready for it, SF are the wrong party to convince them. We need a different party to bridge the gap. I don't know how we get around that

And when will unionists be ready for it then?

Unionists will never be ready for it?

marty34

Quote from: Armamike on November 20, 2020, 04:15:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 20, 2020, 12:50:44 PM
Quote from: Armamike on November 20, 2020, 12:02:23 PM
How would you propose that a united Ireland will be sold to unionists? Because if there's no buy in to a degree from one side we know from history what is likely to happen.  I aspire to a united Ireland but I want to see a vision clearly articulated and sold to the people.  I don't see that from SF or the SDLP at the minute. In fact, if you ask a politician to give a case for it, they tend to stumble.
I'd propose it be sold to unionists by political persuasion. To my mind, it's a no brainer: a small island, with duplicated services, part in the EU and part out of it (with a border that hinders business between north and south and a border down the sea to hinder business between east and west?) With the north totally subject to and at the mercy of the electoral whims of the worst vestiges of English nationalism, with unionists having allegiance to a landmass across the sea who's people have made it clear have no heed on the north whatsoever and want nothing to do with it? How does any of that serve us? Wouldn't unionism be better served being a big fish in the Dáíl than be a minnow in Westminster for the rest of their days? The only freak result where they held a supposed balance of power in westminster and their electoral reps were still lied to then flung under a bus at the earliest opportunity?
The thing is, I too want reunification sold to the people and as it stands, we have two parties which at least say they want reunification. So it's up to them to articulate the benefits. As far as I can see, only one of them at least tries. The greatest way to persuade unionism will be by convincing them of the economic benefits. SF are actually TODAY publishing a document outlining those economic benefits of reunification. When have the SDLP been pro-active enough to do so? Literally never, as far as I can see. So as I say, I'll continue to vote the party that I feel does most to advance my preferred outcome on the single biggest political issue of our time. That's not to say SF get a ringing endorsement. There are many things they could do better but at least they are not tokensitic in their advocating or ashamed to talk about it.


Quote from: Armamike on November 20, 2020, 12:02:23 PM
I don't want to see SF lead or take control of a future looking united Ireland agenda. The case needs to be built by and involve a much broader pool of stakeholders, opinion formers etc (call it civic nationalism or whatever).  There has to be some buy in from people from a unionist background or leaning. SF are toxic to that electorate and on their own won't deliver anything peaceful or lasting.
You mightn't want SF to take the lead, but in reality, if it's left to civic nationalism to do the persuasion, and political nationalism is seen to disengage from the core political aspiration of Irish nationalism, then it's just a non runner. It has to be an all in effort from the civic and the political. Speaking out in favour of reunification needs to be mainstreamed among across all shades of nationalism. If the SDLP are seen as more palatable to unionism, then maybe people like you ought to lobby that party to get off their ass and take a bit of initiative, and let unionism hear the arguments come from them for once. As it stands, they are leaving it to SF to do the work. If you want a United Ireland, then maybe stop taking such issue with the nationalist party that's working for it, and start taking issue with the one that isn't. FFS public support for a United Ireland is at it's highest point since partition, and Brexit has the potential to grow that support significantly, and what are the SDLP doing to take advantage of this opportunity to advocate their stated aspiration for Irish unity? Nothing. Same as always. And you are 100% right in saying there has to be unionist buy in. SF have held umpten confrences on the subject and these seem to always include unionist panelists/speakers. When did the SDLP last try to produce a document or an event, aimed purely at enhancing the unity project and invite anyone whatsoever?

Some strong arguments there for a UI.  Unionists would need to know that they have a voice.  I want to see those arguing for a UI to show a vision for how it would actually work and how it could look.  Will it be a cold house for unionists?  If we refer to the Dail with images of direct rule from Dublin, that's not a great starting point imo.  We're a very small country in geographical and population terms but a federal type of arrangement with some kind of devolvement to provinces would need to be considered.  This is the kind of conversation we need to be having now.  The more gaps there are and the more unanswered questions as to how it would actually look and work in practice, the more anxiety and lack of buy in, not just from moderate unionists but the undecided. This was a big factor in the SNP losing the referendum vote - they just didn't have the answers to questions on the basic issues affecting peoples' lives.  I agree with you, the SDLP could be more proactive on this.  To be honest, I don't know much about the SDLP's efforts behind the scenes on this. They do have a key role to play.

The SDLP are, as we saw from the recent election,  big buds with FF/FG - candidates canvassing for both FF and FG. Wtf?

M. Martin has a big new shiny unit on the shared island waffle but won't even endorse a border poll....with the classic 'it's not the right time'.

Fear Bun Na Sceilpe

Quote from: marty34 on November 20, 2020, 08:43:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 20, 2020, 12:14:07 PM
Quote from: Armamike on November 20, 2020, 12:02:23 PM
How would you propose that a united Ireland will be sold to unionists? Because if there's no buy in to a degree from one side we know from history what is likely to happen.  I aspire to a united Ireland but I want to see a vision clearly articulated and sold to the people.  I don't see that from SF or the SDLP at the minute. In fact, if you ask a politician to give a case for it, they tend to stumble.  I don't want to see SF lead or take control of a future looking united Ireland agenda.  The case needs to be built by and involve a much broader pool of stakeholders, opinion formers etc (call it civic nationalism or whatever).  There has to be some buy in from people from a unionist background or leaning. SF are toxic to that electorate and on their own won't deliver anything peaceful or lasting.

There will be no UNITED Ireland anytime soon. What I mean is even if we see it physically we will not have a happy or peaceful society. Unionists are not ready for it, SF are the wrong party to convince them. We need a different party to bridge the gap. I don't know how we get around that

And when will unionists be ready for it then?

Unionists will never be ready for it?

How you reckon we deal with that

marty34

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 20, 2020, 11:26:13 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 20, 2020, 08:43:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 20, 2020, 12:14:07 PM
Quote from: Armamike on November 20, 2020, 12:02:23 PM
How would you propose that a united Ireland will be sold to unionists? Because if there's no buy in to a degree from one side we know from history what is likely to happen.  I aspire to a united Ireland but I want to see a vision clearly articulated and sold to the people.  I don't see that from SF or the SDLP at the minute. In fact, if you ask a politician to give a case for it, they tend to stumble.  I don't want to see SF lead or take control of a future looking united Ireland agenda.  The case needs to be built by and involve a much broader pool of stakeholders, opinion formers etc (call it civic nationalism or whatever).  There has to be some buy in from people from a unionist background or leaning. SF are toxic to that electorate and on their own won't deliver anything peaceful or lasting.

There will be no UNITED Ireland anytime soon. What I mean is even if we see it physically we will not have a happy or peaceful society. Unionists are not ready for it, SF are the wrong party to convince them. We need a different party to bridge the gap. I don't know how we get around that

And when will unionists be ready for it then?

Unionists will never be ready for it?

How you reckon we deal with that

Ceist mhaith -but you say SF are not the ones to move it forward.

It's your go - who, in your opinion, are?

marty34

Quote from: marty34 on November 20, 2020, 08:43:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 20, 2020, 12:14:07 PM
Quote from: Armamike on November 20, 2020, 12:02:23 PM
How would you propose that a united Ireland will be sold to unionists? Because if there's no buy in to a degree from one side we know from history what is likely to happen.  I aspire to a united Ireland but I want to see a vision clearly articulated and sold to the people.  I don't see that from SF or the SDLP at the minute. In fact, if you ask a politician to give a case for it, they tend to stumble.  I don't want to see SF lead or take control of a future looking united Ireland agenda.  The case needs to be built by and involve a much broader pool of stakeholders, opinion formers etc (call it civic nationalism or whatever).  There has to be some buy in from people from a unionist background or leaning. SF are toxic to that electorate and on their own won't deliver anything peaceful or lasting.

There will be no UNITED Ireland anytime soon. What I mean is even if we see it physically we will not have a happy or peaceful society. Unionists are not ready for it, SF are the wrong party to convince them. We need a different party to bridge the gap. I don't know how we get around that

And when will unionists be ready for it then?

Unionists will never be ready for it?

I state there will be no time when unionists will be ready for it.

Anybody who thinks that unionists will suddenly change overnight are very naive and completely out of touch with the political situation in the six counties.

Fear Bun Na Sceilpe

Quote from: marty34 on November 20, 2020, 11:43:39 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 20, 2020, 11:26:13 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 20, 2020, 08:43:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 20, 2020, 12:14:07 PM
Quote from: Armamike on November 20, 2020, 12:02:23 PM
How would you propose that a united Ireland will be sold to unionists? Because if there's no buy in to a degree from one side we know from history what is likely to happen.  I aspire to a united Ireland but I want to see a vision clearly articulated and sold to the people.  I don't see that from SF or the SDLP at the minute. In fact, if you ask a politician to give a case for it, they tend to stumble.  I don't want to see SF lead or take control of a future looking united Ireland agenda.  The case needs to be built by and involve a much broader pool of stakeholders, opinion formers etc (call it civic nationalism or whatever).  There has to be some buy in from people from a unionist background or leaning. SF are toxic to that electorate and on their own won't deliver anything peaceful or lasting.

There will be no UNITED Ireland anytime soon. What I mean is even if we see it physically we will not have a happy or peaceful society. Unionists are not ready for it, SF are the wrong party to convince them. We need a different party to bridge the gap. I don't know how we get around that

And when will unionists be ready for it then?

Unionists will never be ready for it?

How you reckon we deal with that

Ceist mhaith -but you say SF are not the ones to move it forward.

It's your go - who, in your opinion, are?

I think a nationalist party with less baggage in Unionists eyes. In the end couid it be one of the parties in the Republic with a change of approach?