'Splitting into two groups of 16 is inevitable for football'

[seafoid]

I think we are going to get a new economic system sooner rather than later and that it will spread money around the country instead of having it hoarded in Dublin as per the current system. That should be good for a better spread of winners

[Esmarelda]

Run the leagues, Seed the provincial draws based on finishing league position, and let the lower seeds play first before the big guns come in. Straight knockout, but all games count towards your All Ireland position, as well as a divisional and provincial interim target.

That would be very easy to implement.

This year would be as follows....
Leinster
Dublin 1
Kildare 2
Meath 3
Louth 4
Offaly 5
Longford 6
Laois 7
Westmeath 8
Wexford 9
Carlow 10
Wicklow 11

First round Wicklow v Longford; Carlow v Laois; Wexford v Westmeath
Quarter Finals Dublin v Wicklow/Longford; Kildare v Carlow/Laois; Meath v Wexford/Westmeath; Offaly v Louth
Semi Finals Dublin/Wicklow/Longford v Offaly/Louth; Kildare/Carlow/Laois v Meath/Wexford/Westmeath

And so on for the other provinces.
           

While I like the linking of the league to the championship and the straight knockout element I just think that keeping the provincials means it will become stale. At the end of the day there are probably two thirds of counties without any chance of winning a provincial title. Many teams might wonder what the point of the league is if they still can't escape the shackles of Kerry, Dublin or Mayo.

Play the provincials as stand alone competitions. If they are valued by players and supporters in their own right they should still be fiercely contested, if they don't then why are we trying to keep them? League dictates your seeding and the knockout element of the All Ireland is 1 v 32, 2 v 31 etc.

Hang on, are you suggesting that when all is said and done you've come up with a proposal that would see Dublin v London in the first round of a knockout championship?

[Zulu]

Yes, but if London want to avoid that then get out of division 4 and isn't that what we want? The team that finishes bottom of division 4 isn't going to win anything anyway but in my proposal that team have a pathway to avoid Dublin. All you have to do to avoid any of the top four teams in Ireland in round one is finish in the top four in division four. Is that too hard an ask?

There's no perfect system but in this system all division 2 teams play division 3 teams and the top four in division 4 play the bottom four in division 1 in round one. That's a lot of competitive games with the possibility of one or two major upsets.

[Rossfan]

Zulu you're usually pretty sensible but a 32 Co KO competition where the weakest play the strongest in Round 1 is an awful suggestion.
Be more humane to not allow them partake at all.
If we're to have a single competition along you're lines then later the bottom 16 play round 1
Then the 8 winners play the D2 teams in Round 2
Eight Round 2 winners play D1 teams in Round 3.

[Zulu]

That's not a bad idea Rossfan but there's two issues I see straight away. One, the top teams may have to wait a month or more for their first championship game and will have to play opponents that have two games under their belt. I think the competition should be the same for all. Two, my proposal puts the league at the centre of the season, do well and you get rewarded (in the current season but you can also improve every year) do poorly and you're punished. I see no issue with that at the elite level of our sport.

If London, Waterford, Carlow etc. want to play in the All Ireland I don't see how it's being harsh to have them play Dublin in knockout football. They can avoid it by doing better. The system I propose means every league game (all of them against your peers) matters and if you're a weak team you've a once off shot at beating a big gun and knocking them out of the competition. I'd say London would take the Dubs going to Ruislip for a knockout game every day of the week.

There's absolutely merit in London playing in a separate competition to Dublin but I don't really see the advantage of them playing Laois or Down rather than Dublin just because Dublin are too good.

EDIT: Sorry that last line isn't very clear. Basically if there's an appetite for an A and B All Ireland that's fine but as long as the likes of London object to playing for something other than Sam I don't see why it's unfair for them to play Dublin or Kerry, it's what they signed up to.

[armaghniac]

The All Ireland should only be teams in Ireland, so throw London out and let them play in the All British championship.

[Syferus]

The All Ireland should only be teams in Ireland, so throw London out and let them play in the All British championship.

Sure let's limit it down to the 26 counties that actually make up Ireland while we're at it..

[armaghniac]

The All Ireland should only be teams in Ireland, so throw London out and let them play in the All British championship.

Sure let's limit it down to the 26 counties that actually make up Ireland while we're at it..

There is no point in your usual offensive coat trailing, London is not in Ireland pure and simple.

[Esmarelda]

The All Ireland should only be teams in Ireland, so throw London out and let them play in the All British championship.

Sure let's limit it down to the 26 counties that actually make up Ireland while we're at it..

There is no point in your usual offensive coat trailing, London is not in Ireland pure and simple.

True, but why are you taking that stance? I know New York make it 33, but aren't London useful to have in the absence of Kilkenny?

[seafoid]

The All Ireland should only be teams in Ireland, so throw London out and let them play in the All British championship.

Sure let's limit it down to the 26 counties that actually make up Ireland while we're at it..

There is no point in your usual offensive coat trailing, London is not in Ireland pure and simple.

Brits out. Keep Kilburn Irish

[seafoid]

New York doesn't enter the qualifiers at the moment because it would upset the mathematical symmetry of 32 counties. Say NY started winning in Connacht. Which county would be kicked out of the qualifiers? Would it be Wicklow ?

[Syferus]

New York doesn't enter the qualifiers at the moment because it would upset the mathematical symmetry of 32 counties. Say NY started winning in Connacht. Which county would be kicked out of the qualifiers? Would it be Wicklow ?

Seeing as a good portion of their players/management are illegals that are afraid of not getting back into the US even if NY were to fluke a win they would never fulfil a fixture in Ireland. No such worries for London, at least till Brexit comes.

[Never beat the deeler]

New York doesn't enter the qualifiers at the moment because it would upset the mathematical symmetry of 32 counties. Say NY started winning in Connacht. Which county would be kicked out of the qualifiers? Would it be Wicklow ?

Seeing as a good portion of their players/management are illegals that are afraid of not getting back into the US even if NY were to fluke a win they'd ould never fulfil a fixture in Ireland. No such worries for London, at least till Brexit comes.

I've heard this said before, but surely not nowadays?! Maybe twenty years ago you had lads that over stayed their visas and were out there playing football but the lads playing now?

[twohands!!!]

New York doesn't enter the qualifiers at the moment because it would upset the mathematical symmetry of 32 counties. Say NY started winning in Connacht. Which county would be kicked out of the qualifiers? Would it be Wicklow ?

Seeing as a good portion of their players/management are illegals that are afraid of not getting back into the US even if NY were to fluke a win they'd ould never fulfil a fixture in Ireland. No such worries for London, at least till Brexit comes.

I've heard this said before, but surely not nowadays?! Maybe twenty years ago you had lads that over stayed their visas and were out there playing football but the lads playing now?

Yeah from what I know of the younger generation heading to the US it seems that there are far less going illegally than were in previous generations - far easier to head elsewhere - Oz, Canada, elsewhere and avoid all the hassle.

[Ball Hopper]

Zulu you're usually pretty sensible but a 32 Co KO competition where the weakest play the strongest in Round 1 is an awful suggestion.
Be more humane to not allow them partake at all.
If we're to have a single competition along you're lines then later the bottom 16 play round 1
Then the 8 winners play the D2 teams in Round 2
Eight Round 2 winners play D1 teams in Round 3.

When the list of round 1 qualifiers is complete, it will contain 14 of the 16 teams in Div 3 and Div 4.  The exceptions will be Leitrim (who beat a fellow Div 4 side) and the winner of the Div 3 contest between Offaly and Westmeath.  Just promoted Louth are in the qualifiers and the last team in, the loser of Cavan/Monaghan look like they don't really belong there.

So the current system appears to work fine, in my opinion.  Just tighten up the schedule and use Saturday as well.